Haven for the Human Amoeba

On 10 Jan 2003, 20:52 +00:00, jmnoble@b... said:

All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

I cringe when someone says "Merry Christmas" to me because they are assuming (wrongly) that it's also my holiday. I am much happier with a generic greeting that is all-inclusive.

However, if you *really* want a native holiday greeting, how about asking what the American Indians that met Columbus would have said?

The fact that "Winter Break" is during the Christmas season is a compromise because Jews and Muslims use a lunar calendar with holidays varying on the solar calendar from year to year. In that sense, it's much like daylike savings time; regions on the border of each time zone aren't quite on target either.

The U.S. is changing and in this instance, I think that's a good thing because, finally, minorities are being heard too.

---

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@c... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

I've replied to this e-mail on another forum. I agree with the reply written above. It was the essence of what I wrote before.

I think that people in America who want "America for the Americans" are forgetting a major difference between us and the rest of the world: We are totally dependent on them economically-- next time you're in Target or Walmart, consider what the store would look like if China slapped an embargo on us!-- and the reason we can consume a disproportionate share of the world's resources is because of all the economic and military policies foisted on other countries by American and European wars and colonialism-- the very same wars, economic policies, and colonialism that often increases poverty in other countries and leads to emigration. This is obviously a topic too big for me to cover in a paragraph, and if you don't agree with me already it's doubtful this paragraph will change your mind.

What I want to focus on, though, is how immigration helps America. Historically, we have been a very culturally and physically isolated nation. We have such power in the world politically, and such a wide geographic span, that many Americans can go through life thinking that if something isn't done in America, it just isn't possible-- and asexuality is one of those things! The very notion that sexuality defines family life, that friendship isn't a "real" relationship, and so on-- we have been taught that those are ideas in "psychology," that is, that some scientist has empirically determined that for all human beings this is true, and now we as "asexuals" have to prove that we can be as serious as the next person about love. But *all* the sexual orientations-- heterosexual as much as any of them-- are actually cultural constructs. It means something different to be heterosexual in Mexico-- for one thing, it seems to be perfectly compatible with having both more affectionate and possibly more committed same-sex friendships. I've read a couple of sad stories of pairs or trios of friends from the same village traveling north to find jobs to send money back to their families, and dying in the desert together or in some truck with no air holes. (Many of their farming jobs were displaced by cheap subsidized American imports, but again, that's another topic for another time.) And then, if I go to the K-Mart next to where I work, in a Hispanic neighborhood, I see lots of men shopping together, even older ones-- which you rarely see in even the gay districts let alone the suburban areas where white people raise their families.

It's too bad I forgot all my college Spanish, or I could more respectfully ask some of these immigrants if what I've heard about their countries is true, like this quote from my www.celebratefriendship.org website:

"I was struck by the idea of equating celibacy with aloneness. Perhaps because I have lived most of my life in places where this idea does not hold true, I suspect there is something related to cultural values in this equation. In a cultural context in which nuclear families and couples are seen as the most important connections and relationships, it is possible to equate celibacy with being alone. In most of the world, however, celibate individuals are not alone. They live their lives surrounded by extended family, communities, and lifelong friends." (Olivia Espin, in the anthology "Boston Marriages: Romantic but Asexual Relationships Among Contemporary Lesbians" ed. by Elizabeth Rothblum)

How many of you "asexual" people really feel comfortable in America? Between my strong liberal values and my preference for taking nonsexual relationships seriously, I have sometimes thought of the old phrase "America, love it or leave it" and questioned why I don't just leave it. So far, I am committed to staying in my home country--it's easier and the people I love are here--but it is essential for me as a celibate person to understand that, while celibacy is a minority position worldwide, having passion for one's friendships is not. Worldwide, my interest in affectionate same-sex friendships or in the type of extended family and friendship-based community described by Olivia Espin, is quite possibly the *majority* viewpoint-- and so why would I be against some of those people coming to America and bringing their viewpoint with them? Tonight I am going to be doing a talk with a local men's organization about respecting friendship. And the key phrase I will be using is "learning about international friendship customs," because to propose a new attitude towards nonsexual relationships out of the blue will strike people as a lot odder than saying "I've read about what they do in Mexico, and Italy, and Holland, and Brazil. Their attitude towards respecting relationships even if they're not sexual makes sense. Why can't we do some of those things here? Why can't we combine the best of several cultures in order to make something new-- a culture which isn't sexist like some of the traditional cultures in South America or the Middle East, but isn't alienating and sexually obsessed like ours?"

We have learned from immigrants in the past: when the Irish and the Italians were the immigrants, everybody hated that too, but their ideas formed part of the labor and populist movements that eventually brought us things like Social Security and the forty-hour week. Why should Americans be constantly exporting our ideas aout Democracy and Capitalism to the four corners of the earth, and not letting any ideas -- or people -- arrive in the other direction?

Dave White www.celebratefriendship.org

I remember when I first found out that some people got upset at being wished "merry christmas", and I didn't understand it. It turned out they were Jews, or Hindus (actually, I am not sure I've met a Hindu who's gotten upset, but you get the point) or just non-christian. Why that surprised me though, was that I'm as non-religious as anyone is going to be, but still celebrate christmas. Christmas isn't a religious holiday to me. But then... as I got older, I too started to get annoyed at being wished merry christmas... because it wasn't so merry. It was a time when everyone I know goes crazy with this "obligation" to be shopping and shopping and shopping, all for things that aren't needed and will be returned in a frenzy of post-christmas shopping. Its all stress and no spirit now. Its not a religious holiday though (not a hint of religion in sight, I think other religions would be just as much at home). Even though I'm not religious, the irony has become I think I'd prefer the religious variant of christmas over what it seems to be now. ;) Anyway I hope people did in fact have a merrier - er... something or other than I did. ;)

Save rainforest for free with a Planet-Save.com e-mail account: http://www.planet-save.com

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"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

This is an out-and-out fabrication. The founding fathers of the USA were not Christians. They were Deists. They believed in a universal Creator, but not the God of Christianity. If the USA was founded on Christian principles, Jesus Christ himself would be mentioned in the Constitution. He isn't. In fact, neither is God -- just a passing reference to God in the Declaration of Independence.

Please take your jingoistic right-wing rhetoric someplace else. This is not the place for it.

Oh no, hes got long hair ;) I'll dump his box! Good plan though! "Millionaire Max" and "Firefighter Frank" sound interesting though... ;)

Just get a boyfriend/girlfriend in a box...seems like much less effort ;)

http://www.salon.com/mwt/fgm/1997/12/05fgm.html

adriennesis said:

I think having a foreign friend that you write with is less false then wearing a wedding ring. Besides your close friends will notice the ring and ask even more.

Jim Sinclair said:

That sure is a lot of work to invest in a falsehood!

If dishonesty is the course to be followed, why not just get and wear a wedding ring, and not say anything about it, and if anyone asks about your spouse, just change the subject?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@m...

On 26 Dec 2003, adriennesis said:

Yes I can see that being a problem. You may consider getting a girlfriend who lives in a far away country, you may even get a real girl to write with and send you pictures. That would give you some extra time, you could go on holiday to meet her and then tell your family or co workersthat you love her. She lives so far away that they probably wont expect to see her before your wedding... YOu can end this 'relationship' at any time and then start a new one much later, especially if you tell everybody that she was the real love of your live and that you wanted to marry her. It often happens that people say that they give up on love after such a experience... It will take some acting and someone to write with but this way you at least get some time to think about your situation and perhaps even in a few years you feel completely different.

adrienne

Please take your jingoistic right-wing rhetoric someplace else. This is not the place for it.

*snerk* i know you didn't intend that to be funny, but I have a 5-foot iguana named jingo who might be quite pissed if he knew what you said about him :P

Sarae Montgomery We're all mad here!

*snerk* i know you didn't intend that to be funny, but I have a 5-foot iguana named jingo who might be quite pissed if he knew what you said about him :P

I guess Jingo the Iguana is a left-wing radical at heart, eh? :)

Hey, nothing wrong with mutant iguanas. What, with most iguanas I know having four feet, not five...

glenn

HI Linda, I match your story. I never married though or had kids. I wish I had kids through magic. LOL

I'm 47 years old and don't look the same either and I am disabled but work part time under the table when I can.

Jen California

Hello everyone!

I can't believe I found this group. I've looked on line before for anything dealing with asexuality and couldn't find much. AND I was not sure if I fit in that catagory, but I kind felt I did.

I hope you don't mind if I give you a short version of who I am and why I am looking for like minded people?

I'm 55. I'm female and the mother of 2...getting pragnent has little to do with enjoying sex. :-/ My children are grown. My daughter has a mental handicap and will probably live me till we are both old and grey. My son tries to take care of us, he's 35. I'm disabled too, but physically,with 2 forms of arthritis. We live in a little ozark town that is known as a very nice tourist distination in NW Arkansas. Eureka Springs...it's a beautiful little town ...I'll send a link. Anyway...I've not always been as I am today.

In my youth I was considered beautiful enough to be a model and was asked at least twice to take part in beauty contests. I had long natural blond hair and big emerald green eyes, and a figure that was so hour glass, it was hard to find cloths, back in the day of Twiggy bodies. :-) And of course I had the men buzzing around like flies...but I simply didn't feel right...I had no real sexual interest in them. Later in life, I thought maybe I was gay, because I could feel as close to women as I could to men, yet, I found not sexual interest there either. I just happen to enjoy all kinds of people. And I can be attracted to people, of both sexes, but I don't want to carry it to a sexual level. It just doesn't interest me. AS life progressed some things occurred that REALLY turned me off to the idea, it felt to me like sex and the attitudes there of, hurt several people I loved. I have been married 3 times, and alas, all ended because I simply could not be as sexual as was required. Luckly, I have remained friends with my last husband and he still comes to visit and he's helped me financially through my disability problems. He seems to understand, if not relate to my way of being. I am quite happy, actually. The kids and I do many neat things, and have a lot of fun. I have hobbies and friends. And a strong spiritual nature, but not perticularly religous. Sometimes I miss a companion, but have pretty much given up on that because all companions, of either sex, seem to want to be involved sexually.

Does this fit the pattern of most of you? Or do I belong in another group? :-) I am anxious to hear from you all! thanks Linda BB

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Hello Everyone,

Today, I was not able to work much due to severe pain in my feet. Ya know, nerve pain stabbing my feet and in the AM when I woke up I had severe spasms in my lower legs and feet. It was true hell. It took a long while to get it to stop.

I took my baby (2 year old mind in a 60 year old body) to the bathroom, fed her, gave her meds and put her back in her room where she likes to be anyway. She can't be out when I am busy anyway. It's just to unpredictable and dangerous.

I took my meds and then I was just so driven to organized the cleaning products that were all through the house. I just couldn't take it anymore. I carried everything to the family room next to a couch cuz I was in so much pain that I did this sitting even though it still was painful. There were large numbers of either identical products or products for the same purpose. I organized them by their purposes and put them into bins. Since I don't have shelf space at the moment I lined the bins down one edge of the garage. It seems that the old uncle wants to make shelves for me in this wooden tall cabinet in the garage. I told him I would really love it if he did that for me. I hope he does.

The garbage pick-up was today and I was so very grateful the woman took my garbage although it was more than over full.

The garbage will likely be over filled for a while till we get things down to normal. Then we are moving and storing things that there is just too much of an abundance of i.e. cups, glasses, chop sticks, knives and so on.

No one uses the master bedroom and it has two clothing closets and a large cabinet along with dressers. So we are storing things so they don't show in this room too.

Everything must be washed well actually everything needs to be SCRUBBED. It is filthy and stained that I spent hours scrubbing one side of the kitchen counters. Meaning the entire counter on one side of the kitchen. This place has a very long ways to go too.

Allen who is the cousin who shows up daily SAID he would come clean the window in the living room because there is BLACK MOLD covering the entire window.

As you can see (me and Trudy the 2 care-givers) our work will be ongoing besides caring for the 2 older women that are like young children.

I have been working a lot of Trudy's days as she has been ill a lot. Her asthma is still not under control and now she is very distressed emotionally so this is all taking a big toll on her. I am not accustom to working this many days so this is also taking a toll on me too.

I actually like working here with the exception of the filth. I do know the filth and lack of organization will not be forever so I can cope. I just have a very hard time with disorganization or filth and especially both.

The great thing is that these 2 gals love sandwiches, and those kids canned foods i.e. spaghetti O's because I am a lousy cook and I hate to cook with a passion.

We are also re-teaching basic life skills of appropriate behavior i.e. eating at the table and staying at the table until one is finished eating, taking the plate and other things to the sink and tossing the napkin in the garbage, wiping up messes and drying the area, washing their hands and the list goes on. One must be taught how to bathe herself so this all will take quit a bit of time.

Jen

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Hello to Everyone I email. I am attempting to get through almost all of my emails including jokes so I can start fresh again so I am FORCING myself to stay away in the hopes I can cause some of you smile or laugh.

Jen

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Almost 150 years ago, President Lincoln found it necessary to hire a private investigator, Alan Pinkerton, for protection. That was the beginning of the Secret Service.

Since that time, federal police authority has grown to a large number of multi-letter agencies - FBI, CIA, INS, IRS, DEA, ATF, etc.

Now comes the Federal Air Transportation Airport Security Service. Can't you see them now? These highly trained men and women in their black outfits with initials in large white letters across their backs?

F. A. T. A. S. S. - - - - - - - I feel safer already

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Today is International Day of The Very Good Looking, Beautiful and Damn Attractive People, so send this message to someone you think fits this description. Please do not send it back to me as I have already received over fifty thousand messages and my inbox is jammed. HEE HEE

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God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts... Some folks wear their halos much too tight... Some marriages are made in heaven, but they ALL have to be maintained on earth.... Standing in the middle of the road is dangerous. You will get knocked down by the traffic from both ways. A skeptic is a person who when he sees the handwriting on the wall, claims it's a forgery. It isn't difficult to make a mountain out of a molehill, just add a little dirt. The mighty oak tree was once a little nut that held its ground. The tongue must be heavy, indeed, because so few people can hold it. It's all right to sit on your pity pot every now and again. Just be sure to flush when you are done. You'll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck... If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, you can bet the water bill is higher.

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Ha, I'm getting boring as I get older, but about half of my life I've been involved in a number of subcultures...I'm not sure why, though. (By the way...real rebellion does not stop until at least 23). I'm 25 now, and I still wear some punk clothing and listen to loud punk music. I go to loud shows and <gasp> I have even owned bondage collars despite my lack of any real use for them. I used to do things like drag people around on leashes (in public, no less) but I stopped drawing that kind of attention to myself. I've always talked the talk without walking the walk, so to speak. I had to remove my piercings when I got a "real job" and I wear semi-conservative clothing a lot of the time, but...I have no intention of growing up any time soon.

Uh...ok, I hope no moralist people complain about me talking about dragging people around on leashes :)

Uh...ok, I hope no moralist people complain about me talking about dragging people around on leashes :)

As long as they're consenting adults, I've no problem with it. (-:

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

The idea of a "substitute" for sex has always been an interesting thought to me. I've had a feeling that there _should_, or maybe even is, a substitute, but I'm... hmmm, never really been sure exactly what it is. I don't think most people have been that interested in finding such a substitute in my experience, or else simply have no idea what is meant by that...

Save rainforest for free with a Planet-Save.com e-mail account: http://www.planet-save.com

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I don't think there is a substitute for me. I function without sexual urges and truth be told, my life as a whole is very slow, undaring and boring. I don't speed, I don't drink, I don't get wild and crazy (okay, maybe crazy.. but that comes naturally). I go to class, go to work, come home and care for the animals a bit before going to bed. The most daring thing I do is occasionally laugh at work (a library... god forbid!) or turn in an assignment late/overdue. my god, i'm boring. maybe that will change in a year's time.. preparing to move to a different part of the US and start a real life there, if i can handle it -s

Sarae Montgomery We're all mad here!

The idea of a "substitute" for sex has always been an interesting thought to me. I've had a feeling that there _should_, or maybe even is, a substitute, but I'm... hmmm, never really been sure exactly what it is. I don't think most people have been that interested in finding such a substitute in my experience, or else simply have no idea what is meant by that...

Nargothic said:

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Save rainforest for free with a Planet-Save.com e-mail account: http://www.planet-save.com

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<<The idea of a "substitute" for sex has always been an interesting thought to me. I've had a feeling that there _should_, or maybe even is, a substitute, but I'm... hmmm, never really been sure exactly what it is. I don't think most people have been that interested in finding such a substitute in my experience, or else simply have no idea what is meant by that...>>

well.. I got a decent anti-sex... I work on some game projects.. have a look at this site if you dont think I'm serious..

www.battlebazaar.com

Hi fellow amoebas. 'Just thought I'd pop in briefly and introduce myself. I'm one of those older generation secret asexuals finally deciding to creep out of the woodwork. When I was in highschool during the early 70's I had already decided I was asexual, and - strangely enough - that was even the term I used, but - geeze! There was NOTHING available back then to even start to explain what (I thought) might be wrong with me, or to suggest that there might be another one like me somewhere on the planet. To briefly quote one of my oldie songs - "What a long stange trip it's been!" 'Been there, 'done that, 'can relate to the "naughty" urge, (you name it), but I think I've survived the worst of it with most of my soul surprisingly intact. A very warped sense of humor helps a lot!

I've been reading through the archived messages and getting to feel like I know some of you. Nor really, of course, but with a sort of "kindred spirit" connection, if you know what I mean. There are a lot more messages still to go, plus I also found and joined Aven. (That site is so huge it borders on intimidating!) I am going to be very busy catching up for quite a while but if I see a current post that looks like something I can contribute to, I will add my two cent's worth.

-Greybird

Reading backlogged mail again... Wow. I had already noticed, years ago, that asexuality seemed to be more common in autistic people than in the general population (either that, or autistic people are just more likely to *acknowledge* being asexual). Now to come to a group for asexual people and find so many fellow autistics here... amazing!

I'd like to invite interested list members to check out Autism Network International at www.ani.ac. Maybe even consider coming to our 2004 retreat. Last year there was an evening discussion by and for GLBT autistic people. I would LOVE to have enough asexual autistic people in attendance to have a session like that!

Jim Sinclair jisincla@...

well.. I got a decent anti-sex... I work on some game projects.. have a look at this site if you dont think I'm serious..

www.battlebazaar.com

Cool! It's on Linux, I guess I should keep this in mind if/when I switch over to that as I love playing games, I prefer solo style. I have to agree with DaveB, camping is evil! ROTFL...

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

I am going to be very busy catching up for quite a while but if I see a current post that looks like something I can contribute to, I will add my two cent's worth.

Welcome to the group! I'm sure we'll be interested (and curious) in whatever you can contribute.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Note: forwarded message attached.

Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

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Note: forwarded message attached.

Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

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Note: forwarded message attached.

Attachments disappear. Use copy/paste or a proper forward function.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/