Haven for the Human Amoeba

Keith, Yes, I see where you are going. You missed the boat Mr.

Yes, there are people who irresponsibly have children, can't raise them, can't afford to feed and house them properly. If you were to create an irresponsible anti-birth rant, I would be completely in agreement.

Government tax breaks that are not given to childless people does not equate the creation of children a bad thing. The government being unfair is your argument here not responsible people who create families.

Bush is not talking out of both sides of his face concerning birth either. He is saying to be responsible in all aspects PRIOR to creating a family. Pro-life is not just for the unborn child either. Pro-life is against the death penalty too. It's also against discarding poor or old people too.

I am curious, if this had been an obviously employed and high paid woman with 2 children and one on the way; would you have refused to give her your seat?

I know that woman you are speaking of was rude, uncouth, behaving like trash and so on. I don't want adults who are aggressive, loud and/or trashy in my presence. So was the issue that had children or that she was being irresponsible and out of control?

Jen

Stopping people from having children certainly is the right answer. Sex is wrong. Morally and Physically and Socially and Ethically. Any way you look at it. I think China is on the right track. At least they've taken a stand and stood up for what's right. If you are concerned about orphan girls...ADOPT THEM! That's what we're talking about here. Not only that but in America ( I can't speak for other countries)...in America with George Bush in the White House...this country panders to the pregnant. The Pro-life agenda is the most anti-humanist, asocial agenda I could ever imagine. The Christian right is against sex before marriage and against homosexuality and sex education and promotes abstinence and yet these are the very same people who are Pro Life? There are so many laws in this country that benefit families. It's unfair ...tax breaks etc...this country promotes Childbirth which is why I am on a secret service watch list and they showed up at my house with their guns dra! wn! No joke! I understand my views are radical but so are George Bush's .

Here's a situation that happened to me not too long ago... I'm riding on a NYC subway the other day, the 4 train , reading Camus and minding my own business. A Puerto Rican girl, no older than 23, 24 gets on the train with her 2 kids and one in the oven. The train is crowded and she feels because she's pregnant and has kids she's entitled to a seat. She looks at me, a white male by myself and thinks she deserves my seat. So rudely she interupts me from my reading and asks me to get up without even saying please. I say to her very politely "I'm sorry I'm not going to do that" and go back to my reading. Well, she gets all loud and starts running her mouth talking all this garbage and swearing at me. I do my best to ignore it but she's persistent and eventually gets up in my face and says " Why don't you get the f*ck up bitch!" Well, I do have my limits so I start going off on her about my movement askingher why should I be put out because she had sex so many times and wasn't even responsible enough to protect herself? Am I to suffer ! because she has done something morally reprehensible and had sex? Repeatedly? And brought more improperly raised poor children into the world that will grow up to become thieves and rapists? The whole train starts looking at me like I'M THE VILLIAN!!! Yeah, me...the guy who was sitting there reading , minding his own business only to be cursed at and had this girl all up in his face. Do you see where I'm going with this? Keith

Keith, there are societal norms in every society. In the American society men and women alike give up their seats for the elderly, handicapped, young children who can't stand as long as adults, frail looking people, pregnant women, adults who have little ones with them and men who are healthy give up their seats for women. This is the American standard in society. It's often referred to as common courtesy.

This woman was out of line with being loud and calling you names but at the same time you are not ignorant of the social expectations of male courtesies either.

I am curious. Would you have suggested her children would grow up to be thieves and killers if she was a well educated and obviously had a good income due to her demeanor, dress and language skills?

I know it is most common for the lesser educated, poor and frustrated to become law breakers so I am aware of your concerns. This is the reason there are many groups of people feel people should be married prior to creating children. I say at least be stable financially prior to artificial insemination. I happen to be very conservative so if a person is planning on children through sexual contact then I believe they should be married first. If this is through a donor insemination and not a sexual contact then as long as one can care for the child then that is fine too.

It seems you are very angry with people who do not subscribe to your beliefs of not bearing children. Sadly, you cannot see that if we all stopped bearing children there would be no humans on this earth. Jen

Don't call me a racist . I'm anything but. It's presumptous and it's racist to think I'm racist for pointing out her race. Why should I offer my seat to someone whom offends me and participates in something I consider wrong and disgusting? Why? Please explain it to me. I don't have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman and I NEVER EVER will! Common courtesy? Common courtesy is not going around murdering people but people do that all the time! So why am I the villian ? And why , pray tell, am I mentally ill ? For believing that sex is wrong? Isn't this an asexual group? Your views sound like your defending sex and childbirth? Are you asexual? I have been making public speeches and performing my Antisexual songs and performance art for the last year and a half or so and I've gotten lots of responses. I made a speech back in September at a community center to a room full of teenagers there to see punk rock music. And you know what...they were quiet, responsive and respectful.! They had questions . One kid came up to me after and shook my hand telling me he respected me. He must've been 16 years old. It made my day. It was really beautiful actually. I do deal with quite a lot of backlash from this movement. I've had heated debates with people who just think I'm a guy who can't get laid. Mostly liberal crowds. Since I am forced (at least at the moment) to live in a sexually saturated society it's obviously going to have it's affect on me. And to say I was in the wrong for defending my viewpoints? That really hurts me. It's not like I went up to this woman and began ranting at her out of thin air. She harassed me. It's just another case of prejudice and bigotry against Antisexuals. This is exactly what I'm fighting against. You can call me a racist but you're the bigot. Take a look at your post. I have a lot of passion for what I do and I've put a lot of time and effort into my movement and dealt with a lot of backlash and probably alienated a lot of people ! who would've otherwise enjoyed my music. But I feel that one must stand up for what one believes in , however unpopular.

dastraube1 said:

I think you were wrong on the train. It's common courtesy to offer your seat for the elderly, those with physical impairments, and yep, the pregnant. She shouldn't have yelled at you and calling you a bitch was very inflamatory, but I don't blame her for being offended. You pointed out that you two were of different races and certainly it would be reasonable of her to suspect racism on your part as one of the possibilities for not showing her courtesy, not that it was (was it?). I think you were insane to start going off about your "movement". Are you really surprised that everyone thought you were the villain? That's a lot to take in...someone who doesn't make room for a pregnant lady and (I know she started the yelling) then starts a rampage about how people should stop having sex and having kids. I can't believe you suggested in front of everyone that her kids might grow up to be rapists. I see you have some well-developed views about the subject but they take some explaining. The overwhelming majority of the population haven't heard your views, much less understand or agree with them and are not going to see where you're coming from. I don't agree at all with your views myself. I appreciate that you're concerned with neglected kids and orphans and that's certainly noble sentiment. I'm not into flaming people but your post calls for a strong reaction from someone. Have you had feedback from others on your views? You sound mentally ill to me. Maybe you should ask others for an honest reaction and see if they agree.

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Right on Therese! You tell'm.

Jen Totally supportive!

On 16 Dec 2003, 07:10 +00:00, dastraube1 said:

I think you were wrong on the train. It's common courtesy to offer your seat for the elderly, those with physical impairments, and yep, the pregnant. She shouldn't have yelled at you and calling you a bitch was very inflamatory, but I don't blame her for being offended.

I agree. It is also the case that in some cases, there are some seats which are prioritized for people with disabilities and seniors. Pregnancy is considered 'a disability' in this instance.

As for the race remarks, I consider it a highly inflammatory comment. People of color are just as qualified to have children as anyone else, and it is not a suitable basis for commentary. keith zarriello <theshivers2001@...> should not have brought this up in any discussion as it shows racist thinking that needs to be mentally eradicated.

BTW, the example of China is a non sequitur as their culture values boys. The solution is to make boys and girls equally valuable. I do applaud them for tackling the problem of overpopulation head on...too bad other countries haven't had that same courage. I think in the U.S. the right wing is trying to drive down wages by making sure there is always a surplus of labor, hence the policies against controlling population. Not hard to understand considering that many business owners are right wing, but it is in the long run hurtful to the environment and increases stress and violent behaviors between individuals. (Experiments on rats shows correlation between crowding and negative behaviors.)

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Gee Keith ONE person supported you. You are so jazzed and fail to see if you have so little support MAYBE you need to rethink your position towards other humans. Maybe you are anti-human rather than anti-sexual.

If this woman was well to do with 2 children and in the oven as you stated, you would not suggest she would need to work more to be less able to care for her children properly.

No reasonable person suggests pregnancy is a badge of honor. But Keith and William, be glad your mother's are not pregnant and in the presence of inept males such as yourselves.

Jen

I thank you William for sticking up for me. At least someone is. And to everyone whose implying I am a racist...not only am I deeply offended but I am also personally hurt.I didn't say anything that was racist and implying racism from my comments proves a politically correct form of racism on your part, which in my opinion is the WORST kind of racism. Antisexuals will obviously get accused of being racist because most people, like you, are small minded. I know that there are people of color who share my beliefs. If there's anything my comment about the woman could be called, I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist. Mentioning someone's race is an important descriptive element when telling a story. To add color to the story, I allow the people of color to have their color. Saying my comment would be classist is because I am implying that due to her poverty that she will then spread to her children, a poverty that will increase with each additional mouth her and her h! usband (if she has one, but let's be honest it's highly likely she does not) will have less time and means to properly provide for her children. She may have to work more and not be able to supervise her children. All of these things are common sense. I don't understand why I come off as fanatical to you people. And calling pregnancy a "disability" is just funny to me. I don't even need to add anything to that.

I am learning from the short time I've been on this list that Antisexuals are indeed different than Asexuals. There is a small movement going on of Antisexuals, I believe it's bigger in Eastern Europe and Russia. It is certainly virutally unheardof in America. That is why I am doing what I am doing and with such vigor. We simply do not have a voice here. And especially in NYC. I've been lobbying a local free weekly newspaper here called "The Village Voice" for some press coverage for the movement. I spoke to the editor-in-chief on the telephone who was condescending and rude. This paper is famous for covering Gay rights issues. So yes, I am angry...probably because I have to put up with a lot of bigotry and people accusing me of being racist or whathaveyou. It can get to a person. But everyone on this list obviously feels the need to express his/her sexuality or lack thereof . I am simply expressing mine.

William Molina said:

Thank-you for the welcome and the reading material.

In reference to Digest 499, I've always had a fear of going to New York for exactly that example as provided by Keith. I don't think it should be required to relinquish your seat to a pregnant woman or handicap person unless you are occupying the handicap reserved seats. Although it is a common courtesy and the politically correct thing to do I feel that Keith is justified in not giving this woman his seat but perhaps he could have come up with a more subtle way of asking her to leave him alone.

Nobody deserves a badge of honor for getting pregnant and although I'm sure that this woman must have had a very exasperating day keeping track of her two children while carrying a third that did not give her the right to invade another human being's personal space and demand Keith to remove himself. However, it was up to him to be the voice of reason and judging from his explanation he came off as fanatical and borderline psychotic. It was also wrong to make certain assumptions about a woman that he did not know and use very demeaning stereotypes of someone's race in his argument. Sex is not for all people but saying that no one should have intercourse is absurd since it would mean the end of humanity. If that is the goal of the anti-sexual movement then I am thankful that it will never come to fruition.

-William

Asexual Lady said:

Keith,

You seem to be extremely angry. Why?

You also seem to think that every woman who has children will raise rapists. Why?

Antisexualism and Asexualism are NOT the same thing.

Many asexuals are married and have children. Many asexuals are not married and have children. Many asexuals desire to get married, but not have children. Many asexuals are not interested in intimate (non-sexual) relationships at all. Most asexuals are not antisexuals.

While asexuals don't have a sex drive that prompts them to seek sexual intercourse with others, they are not openly hostile towards sexuals who do.

Are other antisexualists as angry as you are with the sexual world? Why?

While I feel it is important to spread the word about my asexuality, I never feel the need to do so in an agressive or angry manner. I have never had the need to defend myself from any hostility and I think that is due to the manner in which I present my asexual orientation. I am not against sex or those who engage in it, I just don't have what it takes to want it.

Staci

---

keith zarriello said:

Don't call me a racist . I'm anything but. It's presumptous and it's racist to think I'm racist for pointing out her race. Why should I offer my seat to someone whom offends me and participates in something I consider wrong and disgusting? Why? Please explain it to me. I don't have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman and I NEVER EVER will! Common courtesy? Common courtesy is not going around murdering people but people do that all the time! So why am I the villian ? And why , pray tell, am I mentally ill ? For believing that sex is wrong? Isn't this an asexual group? Your views sound like your defending sex and childbirth? Are you asexual? I have been making public speeches and performing my Antisexual songs and performance art for the last year and a half or so and I've gotten lots of responses. I made a speech back in September at a community center to a room full of teenagers there to see punk rock music. And you know what...they were quiet, responsive and respectful.! They had questions . One kid came up to me after and shook my hand telling me he respected me. He must've been 16 years old. It made my day. It was really beautiful actually. I do deal with quite a lot of backlash from this movement. I've had heated debates with people who just think I'm a guy who can't get laid. Mostly liberal crowds. Since I am forced (at least at the moment) to live in a sexually saturated society it's obviously going to have it's affect on me. And to say I was in the wrong for defending my viewpoints? That really hurts me. It's not like I went up to this woman and began ranting at her out of thin air. She harassed me. It's just another case of prejudice and bigotry against Antisexuals. This is exactly what I'm fighting against. You can call me a racist but you're the bigot. Take a look at your post. I have a lot of passion for what I do and I've put a lot of time and effort into my movement and dealt with a lot of backlash and probably alienated a lot of people w! ho would've otherwise enjoyed my music. But I feel that one must stand up for what one believes in , however unpopular.

dastraube1 said:

I think you were wrong on the train. It's common courtesy to offer your seat for the elderly, those with physical impairments, and yep, the pregnant. She shouldn't have yelled at you and calling you a bitch was very inflamatory, but I don't blame her for being offended. You pointed out that you two were of different races and certainly it would be reasonable of her to suspect racism on your part as one of the possibilities for not showing her courtesy, not that it was (was it?). I think you were insane to start going off about your "movement". Are you really surprised that everyone thought you were the villain? That's a lot to take in...someone who doesn't make room for a pregnant lady and (I know she started the yelling) then starts a rampage about how people should stop having sex and having kids. I can't believe you suggested in front of everyone that her kids might grow up to be rapists. I see you have some well-developed views about the subject but they take some explaining. The overwhelming majority of the population haven't heard your views, much less understand or agree with them and are not going to see where you're coming from. I don't agree at all with your views myself. I appreciate that you're concerned with neglected kids and orphans and that's certainly noble sentiment. I'm not into flaming people but your post calls for a strong reaction from someone. Have you had feedback from others on your views? You sound mentally ill to me. Maybe you should ask others for an honest reaction and see if they agree.

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Rageful Keith, why are you on this list? Clearly, you are not in alignment with any of the feelings or beliefs on this list.

Jen

By telling me what by biggest error is you are lecturing me you dolt! I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I am talking to the specific people calling me a racist and attacking me for my beliefs. That is now YOU! That is Stacy and Dastruebel. So don't tell me I am lumping people into one giant group. You are an idiot! And don't EVER compare to a Christian! Why should I be tolerant of moral lepers? Sexuality is wrong. Nothing more to be said.

William Molina <wmolina7734@...> wrote:Your biggest error seems to be that you have a tendency to lecture rather than directly speak to the individual. I think if you took each case on a person by person basis and not lump people into one giant group you wouldn't be misunderstood as often.

One of my friends is a pro-life Christian and has a bad habit of talking down to people. If you tried harder to relate to people and see things from their perspective it will definitely make you a more tolerant person and avoid ugly confrontations like the one you had on the subway.

-William

keith zarriello said:

I thank you William for sticking up for me. At least someone is. And to everyone whose implying I am a racist...not only am I deeply offended but I am also personally hurt.I didn't say anything that was racist and implying racism from my comments proves a politically correct form of racism on your part, which in my opinion is the WORST kind of racism. Antisexuals will obviously get accused of being racist because most people, like you, are small minded. I know that there are people of color who share my beliefs. If there's anything my comment about the woman could be called, I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist. Mentioning someone's race is an important descriptive element when telling a story. To add color to the story, I allow the people of color to have their color. Saying my comment would be classist is because I am implying that due to her poverty that she will then spread to her children, a poverty that will increase with each additional mouth her and her h! usband (if she has one, but let's be honest it's highly likely she does not) will have less time and means to properly provide for her children. She may have to work more and not be able to supervise her children. All of these things are common sense. I don't understand why I come off as fanatical to you people. And calling pregnancy a "disability" is just funny to me. I don't even need to add anything to that.

I am learning from the short time I've been on this list that Antisexuals are indeed different than Asexuals. There is a small movement going on of Antisexuals, I believe it's bigger in Eastern Europe and Russia. It is certainly virutally unheardof in America. That is why I am doing what I am doing and with such vigor. We simply do not have a voice here. And especially in NYC. I've been lobbying a local free weekly newspaper here called "The Village Voice" for some press coverage for the movement. I spoke to the editor-in-chief on the telephone who was condescending and rude. This paper is famous for covering Gay rights issues. So yes, I am angry...probably because I have to put up with a lot of bigotry and people accusing me of being racist or whathaveyou. It can get to a person. But everyone on this list obviously feels the need to express his/her sexuality or lack thereof . I am simply expressing mine.

William Molina said:

Thank-you for the welcome and the reading material.

In reference to Digest 499, I've always had a fear of going to New York for exactly that example as provided by Keith. I don't think it should be required to relinquish your seat to a pregnant woman or handicap person unless you are occupying the handicap reserved seats. Although it is a common courtesy and the politically correct thing to do I feel that Keith is justified in not giving this woman his seat but perhaps he could have come up with a more subtle way of asking her to leave him alone.

Nobody deserves a badge of honor for getting pregnant and although I'm sure that this woman must have had a very exasperating day keeping track of her two children while carrying a third that did not give her the right to invade another human being's personal space and demand Keith to remove himself. However, it was up to him to be the voice of reason and judging from his explanation he came off as fanatical and borderline psychotic. It was also wrong to make certain assumptions about a woman that he did not know and use very demeaning stereotypes of someone's race in his argument. Sex is not for all people but saying that no one should have intercourse is absurd since it would mean the end of humanity. If that is the goal of the anti-sexual movement then I am thankful that it will never come to fruition.

-William

Asexual Lady said:

Keith,

You seem to be extremely angry. Why?

You also seem to think that every woman who has children will raise rapists. Why?

Antisexualism and Asexualism are NOT the same thing.

Many asexuals are married and have children. Many asexuals are not married and have children. Many asexuals desire to get married, but not have children. Many asexuals are not interested in intimate (non-sexual) relationships at all. Most asexuals are not antisexuals.

While asexuals don't have a sex drive that prompts them to seek sexual intercourse with others, they are not openly hostile towards sexuals who do.

Are other antisexualists as angry as you are with the sexual world? Why?

While I feel it is important to spread the word about my asexuality, I never feel the need to do so in an agressive or angry manner. I have never had the need to defend myself from any hostility and I think that is due to the manner in which I present my asexual orientation. I am not against sex or those who engage in it, I just don't have what it takes to want it.

Staci

---

keith zarriello said:

Don't call me a racist . I'm anything but. It's presumptous and it's racist to think I'm racist for pointing out her race. Why should I offer my seat to someone whom offends me and participates in something I consider wrong and disgusting? Why? Please explain it to me. I don't have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman and I NEVER EVER will! Common courtesy? Common courtesy is not going around murdering people but people do that all the time! So why am I the villian ? And why , pray tell, am I mentally ill ? For believing that sex is wrong? Isn't this an asexual group? Your views sound like your defending sex and childbirth? Are you asexual? I have been making public speeches and performing my Antisexual songs and performance art for the last year and a half or so and I've gotten lots of responses. I made a speech back in September at a community center to a room full of teenagers there to see punk rock music. And you know what...they were quiet, responsive and respectful.! They had questions . One kid came up to me after and shook my hand telling me he respected me. He must've been 16 years old. It made my day. It was really beautiful actually. I do deal with quite a lot of backlash from this movement. I've had heated debates with people who just think I'm a guy who can't get laid. Mostly liberal crowds. Since I am forced (at least at the moment) to live in a sexually saturated society it's obviously going to have it's affect on me. And to say I was in the wrong for defending my viewpoints? That really hurts me. It's not like I went up to this woman and began ranting at her out of thin air. She harassed me. It's just another case of prejudice and bigotry against Antisexuals. This is exactly what I'm fighting against. You can call me a racist but you're the bigot. Take a look at your post. I have a lot of passion for what I do and I've put a lot of time and effort into my movement and dealt with a lot of backlash and probably alienated a lot of people w! ho would've otherwise enjoyed my music. But I feel that one must stand up for what one believes in , however unpopular.

dastraube1 said:

I think you were wrong on the train. It's common courtesy to offer your seat for the elderly, those with physical impairments, and yep, the pregnant. She shouldn't have yelled at you and calling you a bitch was very inflamatory, but I don't blame her for being offended. You pointed out that you two were of different races and certainly it would be reasonable of her to suspect racism on your part as one of the possibilities for not showing her courtesy, not that it was (was it?). I think you were insane to start going off about your "movement". Are you really surprised that everyone thought you were the villain? That's a lot to take in...someone who doesn't make room for a pregnant lady and (I know she started the yelling) then starts a rampage about how people should stop having sex and having kids. I can't believe you suggested in front of everyone that her kids might grow up to be rapists. I see you have some well-developed views about the subject but they take some explaining. The overwhelming majority of the population haven't heard your views, much less understand or agree with them and are not going to see where you're coming from. I don't agree at all with your views myself. I appreciate that you're concerned with neglected kids and orphans and that's certainly noble sentiment. I'm not into flaming people but your post calls for a strong reaction from someone. Have you had feedback from others on your views? You sound mentally ill to me. Maybe you should ask others for an honest reaction and see if they agree.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oregon-Asexuals

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YESSSSSSSs, go to finishing school and get into an adult development course for people who are unable to mature with any success.

Jen

You know I'm sure that somewhere in New York they have a class that teaches basic social norms and graces. I think these classes are usually only offered to immigrants but I really think it would make a world of difference if you looked into it.

keith zarriello <theshivers2001@...> wrote:By telling me what by biggest error is you are lecturing me you dolt! I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I am talking to the specific people calling me a racist and attacking me for my beliefs. That is now YOU! That is Stacy and Dastruebel. So don't tell me I am lumping people into one giant group. You are an idiot! And don't EVER compare to a Christian! Why should I be tolerant of moral lepers? Sexuality is wrong. Nothing more to be said.

William Molina <wmolina7734@...> wrote:Your biggest error seems to be that you have a tendency to lecture rather than directly speak to the individual. I think if you took each case on a person by person basis and not lump people into one giant group you wouldn't be misunderstood as often.

One of my friends is a pro-life Christian and has a bad habit of talking down to people. If you tried harder to relate to people and see things from their perspective it will definitely make you a more tolerant person and avoid ugly confrontations like the one you had on the subway.

-William

keith zarriello said:

I thank you William for sticking up for me. At least someone is. And to everyone whose implying I am a racist...not only am I deeply offended but I am also personally hurt.I didn't say anything that was racist and implying racism from my comments proves a politically correct form of racism on your part, which in my opinion is the WORST kind of racism. Antisexuals will obviously get accused of being racist because most people, like you, are small minded. I know that there are people of color who share my beliefs. If there's anything my comment about the woman could be called, I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist. Mentioning someone's race is an important descriptive element when telling a story. To add color to the story, I allow the people of color to have their color. Saying my comment would be classist is because I am implying that due to her poverty that she will then spread to her children, a poverty that will increase with each additional mouth her and her h! usband (if she has one, but let's be honest it's highly likely she does not) will have less time and means to properly provide for her children. She may have to work more and not be able to supervise her children. All of these things are common sense. I don't understand why I come off as fanatical to you people. And calling pregnancy a "disability" is just funny to me. I don't even need to add anything to that.

I am learning from the short time I've been on this list that Antisexuals are indeed different than Asexuals. There is a small movement going on of Antisexuals, I believe it's bigger in Eastern Europe and Russia. It is certainly virutally unheardof in America. That is why I am doing what I am doing and with such vigor. We simply do not have a voice here. And especially in NYC. I've been lobbying a local free weekly newspaper here called "The Village Voice" for some press coverage for the movement. I spoke to the editor-in-chief on the telephone who was condescending and rude. This paper is famous for covering Gay rights issues. So yes, I am angry...probably because I have to put up with a lot of bigotry and people accusing me of being racist or whathaveyou. It can get to a person. But everyone on this list obviously feels the need to express his/her sexuality or lack thereof . I am simply expressing mine.

William Molina said:

Thank-you for the welcome and the reading material.

In reference to Digest 499, I've always had a fear of going to New York for exactly that example as provided by Keith. I don't think it should be required to relinquish your seat to a pregnant woman or handicap person unless you are occupying the handicap reserved seats. Although it is a common courtesy and the politically correct thing to do I feel that Keith is justified in not giving this woman his seat but perhaps he could have come up with a more subtle way of asking her to leave him alone.

Nobody deserves a badge of honor for getting pregnant and although I'm sure that this woman must have had a very exasperating day keeping track of her two children while carrying a third that did not give her the right to invade another human being's personal space and demand Keith to remove himself. However, it was up to him to be the voice of reason and judging from his explanation he came off as fanatical and borderline psychotic. It was also wrong to make certain assumptions about a woman that he did not know and use very demeaning stereotypes of someone's race in his argument. Sex is not for all people but saying that no one should have intercourse is absurd since it would mean the end of humanity. If that is the goal of the anti-sexual movement then I am thankful that it will never come to fruition.

-William

Asexual Lady said:

Keith,

You seem to be extremely angry. Why?

You also seem to think that every woman who has children will raise rapists. Why?

Antisexualism and Asexualism are NOT the same thing.

Many asexuals are married and have children. Many asexuals are not married and have children. Many asexuals desire to get married, but not have children. Many asexuals are not interested in intimate (non-sexual) relationships at all. Most asexuals are not antisexuals.

While asexuals don't have a sex drive that prompts them to seek sexual intercourse with others, they are not openly hostile towards sexuals who do.

Are other antisexualists as angry as you are with the sexual world? Why?

While I feel it is important to spread the word about my asexuality, I never feel the need to do so in an agressive or angry manner. I have never had the need to defend myself from any hostility and I think that is due to the manner in which I present my asexual orientation. I am not against sex or those who engage in it, I just don't have what it takes to want it.

Staci

---

keith zarriello said:

Don't call me a racist . I'm anything but. It's presumptous and it's racist to think I'm racist for pointing out her race. Why should I offer my seat to someone whom offends me and participates in something I consider wrong and disgusting? Why? Please explain it to me. I don't have to give up my seat to a pregnant woman and I NEVER EVER will! Common courtesy? Common courtesy is not going around murdering people but people do that all the time! So why am I the villian ? And why , pray tell, am I mentally ill ? For believing that sex is wrong? Isn't this an asexual group? Your views sound like your defending sex and childbirth? Are you asexual? I have been making public speeches and performing my Antisexual songs and performance art for the last year and a half or so and I've gotten lots of responses. I made a speech back in September at a community center to a room full of teenagers there to see punk rock music. And you know what...they were quiet, responsive and respectful.! They had questions . One kid came up to me after and shook my hand telling me he respected me. He must've been 16 years old. It made my day. It was really beautiful actually. I do deal with quite a lot of backlash from this movement. I've had heated debates with people who just think I'm a guy who can't get laid. Mostly liberal crowds. Since I am forced (at least at the moment) to live in a sexually saturated society it's obviously going to have it's affect on me. And to say I was in the wrong for defending my viewpoints? That really hurts me. It's not like I went up to this woman and began ranting at her out of thin air. She harassed me. It's just another case of prejudice and bigotry against Antisexuals. This is exactly what I'm fighting against. You can call me a racist but you're the bigot. Take a look at your post. I have a lot of passion for what I do and I've put a lot of time and effort into my movement and dealt with a lot of backlash and probably alienated a lot of people w! ho would've otherwise enjoyed my music. But I feel that one must stand up for what one believes in , however unpopular.

dastraube1 said:

I think you were wrong on the train. It's common courtesy to offer your seat for the elderly, those with physical impairments, and yep, the pregnant. She shouldn't have yelled at you and calling you a bitch was very inflamatory, but I don't blame her for being offended. You pointed out that you two were of different races and certainly it would be reasonable of her to suspect racism on your part as one of the possibilities for not showing her courtesy, not that it was (was it?). I think you were insane to start going off about your "movement". Are you really surprised that everyone thought you were the villain? That's a lot to take in...someone who doesn't make room for a pregnant lady and (I know she started the yelling) then starts a rampage about how people should stop having sex and having kids. I can't believe you suggested in front of everyone that her kids might grow up to be rapists. I see you have some well-developed views about the subject but they take some explaining. The overwhelming majority of the population haven't heard your views, much less understand or agree with them and are not going to see where you're coming from. I don't agree at all with your views myself. I appreciate that you're concerned with neglected kids and orphans and that's certainly noble sentiment. I'm not into flaming people but your post calls for a strong reaction from someone. Have you had feedback from others on your views? You sound mentally ill to me. Maybe you should ask others for an honest reaction and see if they agree.

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ROFL, so true.

Jen

On 16 Dec 2004, William Molina said:

You know I'm sure that somewhere in New York they have a class that teaches basic social norms and graces. I think these classes are usually only offered to immigrants but I really think it would make a world of difference if you looked into it.

Hi William,

Until and unless our list moderator makes a decision about basic social norms and graces for this list, I think "Don't feed the troll" might be a good policy to follow here.

In other words, this person is clearly hostile and irrational, and will continue to be hostile and irrational no matter what anyone says to him. So why waste time and energy trying to reason with him? Just ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.

J8

Yahoo! Groups Links

snip> keith disgusts me. he has no empathy at all.

Exactly. This is known as a sociopath. Scott Peterson is one of these too. How far will Keith go?

Jen

keith is hilarious and obviously extremely bigoted, too the point of absurdity. i attribute it to living in nyc, which can nurture viewpoints that can be harmful to people's psyche.

obviously keith and william are male, so they do not understand the trauma of pregnancy. although i have never been pregnant, i do know that it is one of the most traumatic events in a woman's life. if it is anything like the problems associated with PMS, i empthasize with the women able to bear it. i think that is keith's main problem an inabilty to empthasize with others.

pregnant women go through nine months of suffering in order to bear children. its amazing that a woman or any person would go through nine months of suffering for a child! that is why i think we will always have childbirth, because these women want to go through so much pain, in order to bear a child. it is a truly honorable thing, and i greatly admire and respect the women that feel called to do so.

Yes, in short he is a jack ass as much as this email seems to be written calmly. Someone else leaving their seat was not the discussion. Someone else should have given their seat and that has nothing to do with the fact that he should have gotten his young little butt of that seat.

Jen

Iolanthe,

Pregnancy can, indeed, be a traumatic event in a woman's life. Physically, it is taxing. I don't think anyone can or will argue with you on that point. It is, however, one of the most amazing event in a woman's life.

How a woman copes with much of it depends as much on her state of mind going into it, as it does outside influences. At times, it can feel like an endurance test. But nothing compares to the first time a new mother hears the tiny beat of her baby's heart in utero. It borders on spiritual. And to feel the first flutter of life inside you is beyond description.

And no, I'm not some earth mother who was out to populate the world. As previously stated, I have one child and one child only. The difference being, it was a wanted pregnancy. Something I worked hard to achieve and I cherished every minute of it. Including the 12 hours of back labor, the post delivery hemoraging and the 2 am feedings.

Yes, it can be traumatic. It can also be one of the most spiritually uplifting and reaffirming events in a woman's life. Unless you have gone through it, it's much like the blind men trying to describe an elephant.

Should Keith have given up his seat to the pregnant woman on the train? No more so than anyone else who was fortunate enough to find a seat on a train in NYC. To find fault with him, you have to find fault with all of the people giving him dirty looks. Any one of which could have put an end to the unfolding scene simply by getting up.

As for his replies to our group, while inflamitory, we need to take into consideration that he did inform us that he was a radical, when making his introduction. Armed with this knowledge, responding to him in anything other than a simple yes or no, is like poking a sleeping tiger.

D.

From

iolanthe_fairy

To

[email protected]

Sent

Friday, December 17, 2004 6:11 AM

Subject

[Haven for the Human Amoeba] lack of empathy on keith's part

keith is hilarious and obviously extremely bigoted, too the point of absurdity. i attribute it to living in nyc, which can nurture viewpoints that can be harmful to people's psyche.

obviously keith and william are male, so they do not understand the trauma of pregnancy. although i have never been pregnant, i do know that it is one of the most traumatic events in a woman's life. if it is anything like the problems associated with PMS, i empthasize with the women able to bear it. i think that is keith's main problem an inabilty to empthasize with others.

pregnant women go through nine months of suffering in order to bear children. its amazing that a woman or any person would go through nine months of suffering for a child! that is why i think we will always have childbirth, because these women want to go through so much pain, in order to bear a child. it is a truly honorable thing, and i greatly admire and respect the women that feel called to do so.

keith disgusts me. he has no empathy at all.

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snip>And pregnancy is ONLY a trauma is a woman gets pregnant by being raped. Otherwise, it is a CHOICE and therefore can not be a trauma. I do think that people should stop having children.

I sure do wish your mother would have been on the pill and your father should have used condoms because just look at the insensitive post pubescent rant that you have become.

Jen

What I don't understand is how all you asexuals can be defending, even promoting pregnancy...isn't sex required for pregnancy? And I thought we all agreed that adoption was a better option? To the person calling me bigoted and not empathetic...you may be suprised to know that at 15 I started an after-school program for homeless children at a shelter here, which since that time blossomed into a full time thing with a staff and everything. I've done similar programs throughout NYC for homeless, at-risk and under-privileged children. I'm hardly apathetic. Not only that but I've also organized many benefit concerts from everything to spreading awareness about sanctions in Iraq (when that was going on, and how it affected Iraqi children) , homelessness and more. I've even lobbyed Congress to pass bills which fight Female Genital Mutilation (a practice that goes on in countries around the world and even happens in the US by certain cultures) . Calling me racist or sexist is a lit! tle presumptous and makes you guilty of the same kind of thinking you accuse me of being guilty of. The bottom line is I honestly believe that sex and anything sexual is morally wrong. I think sex hurts people, causes people to do vindictive things, makes people develop a self-image completely based on their sexual attractiveness causing people to go to great lengths to be attractive, even having plastic surgery, becoming anorexic etc. I think sex turns people into animals. And as far as pregnancy...becoming pregnant does not make you special or better than anyone else. Women who think they are somehow spiritually enlightened because they got knocked up are out of their minds. And pregnancy is ONLY a trauma is a woman gets pregnant by being raped. Otherwise, it is a CHOICE and therefore can not be a trauma. I do think that people should stop having children. And the very basis of my movement is empathy. Empathy for the left out, the ignored, the unwanted ...whether that be the ! people whom nobody wants to have sex with, the people who are afraid of sex, or unwanted orphan children. And all of my comments on this list are just my beliefs...and me defending myself from being called a biggot which does anger me. Please allow me to have my views. I will try to express myself in a way that does not offend you so deeply.

Debbie Search <dsearch@...> wrote:Iolanthe,

Pregnancy can, indeed, be a traumatic event in a woman's life. Physically, it is taxing. I don't think anyone can or will argue with you on that point. It is, however, one of the most amazing event in a woman's life.

How a woman copes with much of it depends as much on her state of mind going into it, as it does outside influences. At times, it can feel like an endurance test. But nothing compares to the first time a new mother hears the tiny beat of her baby's heart in utero. It borders on spiritual. And to feel the first flutter of life inside you is beyond description.

And no, I'm not some earth mother who was out to populate the world. As previously stated, I have one child and one child only. The difference being, it was a wanted pregnancy. Something I worked hard to achieve and I cherished every minute of it. Including the 12 hours of back labor, the post delivery hemoraging and the 2 am feedings.

Yes, it can be traumatic. It can also be one of the most spiritually uplifting and reaffirming events in a woman's life. Unless you have gone through it, it's much like the blind men trying to describe an elephant.

Should Keith have given up his seat to the pregnant woman on the train? No more so than anyone else who was fortunate enough to find a seat on a train in NYC. To find fault with him, you have to find fault with all of the people giving him dirty looks. Any one of which could have put an end to the unfolding scene simply by getting up.

As for his replies to our group, while inflamitory, we need to take into consideration that he did inform us that he was a radical, when making his introduction. Armed with this knowledge, responding to him in anything other than a simple yes or no, is like poking a sleeping tiger.

D.

From

iolanthe_fairy

To

[email protected]

Sent

Friday, December 17, 2004 6:11 AM

Subject

[Haven for the Human Amoeba] lack of empathy on keith's part

keith is hilarious and obviously extremely bigoted, too the point of absurdity. i attribute it to living in nyc, which can nurture viewpoints that can be harmful to people's psyche.

obviously keith and william are male, so they do not understand the trauma of pregnancy. although i have never been pregnant, i do know that it is one of the most traumatic events in a woman's life. if it is anything like the problems associated with PMS, i empthasize with the women able to bear it. i think that is keith's main problem an inabilty to empthasize with others.

pregnant women go through nine months of suffering in order to bear children. its amazing that a woman or any person would go through nine months of suffering for a child! that is why i think we will always have childbirth, because these women want to go through so much pain, in order to bear a child. it is a truly honorable thing, and i greatly admire and respect the women that feel called to do so.

keith disgusts me. he has no empathy at all.

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Wow you really bombared us with emails!

OK I'm getting some slack for this so let me try to better explain myself. Lets say I had worked an 8 or 10 hour shift and dragged myself onto a bus and took the only available seat on the bus. At the next stop a pregnant woman (or anyone else as a matter of fact) got on the bus. I would not relinquish my seat to her more out of selfish reasons (i.e. my own weariness, tired from a long day at work) than for holding some petty grudge. If my stop was less than 10 minutes away or if I was riding the bus on a day-off from work I would definitely give up my seat to this woman.

Also I did not mean to come off as an "inept male" with my pregnancy comment. What I meant was that the sex is easy but by no means do I believe delivering a child through nine months of pregnancy is just as effortless. My mother constantly reminds me that she spent over 15 hours in labor because of me and don't think that I'm not fully appreciative of that. I can't imagine having something the size of a bowling ball come out of my body. I'm just saying that having the sex that starts the pregnancy process does not deserve a reward. Hell, give a woman a medal of honor if she gives birth to nine or ten babies and lives through it.

"Don't Feed The Troll" Policy - Yes that is good advice I think I will not stir the pot and make things worse from now on I just didn't expect the kind of frenzied reaction that I got. Chalk that one up to experience.

I realize that I put my foot in my mouth on occasion but feel free to point it out and ask me how it tastes.

-William

ROFL, so true.

Jen

On 16 Dec 2004, William Molina said:

You know I'm sure that somewhere in New York they have a class that teaches basic social norms and graces. I think these classes are usually only offered to immigrants but I really think it would make a world of difference if you looked into it.

Hi William,

Until and unless our list moderator makes a decision about basic social norms and graces for this list, I think "Don't feed the troll" might be a good policy to follow here.

In other words, this person is clearly hostile and irrational, and will continue to be hostile and irrational no matter what anyone says to him. So why waste time and energy trying to reason with him? Just ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.

J8

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Once people stopped truly stopped bearing children there would be none to adopt because everyone would become adults and die at some point. Then there would be no additional humans on this planet.

Well, I'm not expecting that to happen, ever. I'd just like to encourage more people to take that option seriously. I'm very proud of the fact that in my family there are four children by my parents, and only two of us had any children. My brother is starting late so I don't expect him to have more than two, and one of my sisters only has two. I really encourage negative population growth as a means of getting our numbers under control, and later, after this has been achieve, I would expect people to have no more than two children. If we had our populations under control, then we could easily sustain those who had less resources because there would be a huge surplus among those were well off. There is now a surplus, kind of, but there are so many needy people that I think the "well off" feel overwhelmed.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

What I don't understand is how all you asexuals can be defending, even promoting pregnancy...isn't sex required for pregnancy? And I thought we all agreed that adoption was a better option?

We aren't promoting pregnancy, just defending that poor, defenseless woman since she's not here to do it herself.

Yes, adoption is a better option at the moment, but hopefully, one day, it won't always be. Then it will be an equal option.

Just because we don't want sex doesn't mean we can't see that it's good for a lot of other people, however don't confuse things. Sex doesn't have to be only for pregnancy, it can be for fun too. In fact, I hope it is mainly for fun for most people, because otherwise we'll continue to be overrun by surplus children simply because deluded people wanted to have fun and forgot they should add birth control (condoms, the Pill, etc.) into the mix. I also blame overpopulation on those who advocate abstinence only and don't teach children about how to prevent pregnancy if they should happen to have sex anyway.

BTW, I was alarmed recently when I read that the Bush Administration's focus on abstinence and the "ABC" code is hurting people in Africa, where most AIDS now is from women getting AIDS from their husbands. Those women don't have a choice of abstaining from sex! Our famous leaders have their heads up their asses.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Asexuality is no longer a taboo

VITHAL C NADKARNI

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2004 12:37:24 AM]

It does take all kinds of people—ever-singles, solo singles, celebates, anchorites, monks, nuns, roommates and domestic workers—to make up this world. What’s surprising is the rapidity with which asexuality is tumbling out of the closets and the way asexuals—who have no interest in sex—are flaunting it as an integral part of normal, healthy life.

Although celibacy can be a repression of sexuality under some circumstances and lead to a diminished response to life and personal growth, it can also have quite the opposite effect—be it spiritual, health-related or social—if it’s chosen for positive reasons, says new age thinker Gabrielle Brown

Forget metrosexuality. It had its 15 minutes of fame. Asexuality is the newest rage on the block. A-pride apparently is the newest sex club: `A’ stands for asexual; not something hormone-ridden as `Alpha male’ or bigot-infested like `Aryan’.

As a term of sexual preference, however, it’s a non-starter. For as a new study shows that about one in 100 adults have absolutely no interest in sex.

Anthony Bogaert, a human sexuality expert and psychologist of love at Brock University conducted the new study published in the `Journal of Sex Research’.

He analysed interviews done in 1994 in Britain of 18,000 people. They were asked about their sexual practices. One of the responses was “I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone” which was tick-marked by 1% of the respondents.These are people who apparently don’t experience sexual attraction: `birds and the bees’ have never been their things of beauty and joy forever.

By itself that shouldn’t surprise. It does take all kinds—-ever-singles, solo singles, celebates, anchorites, monks, nuns, roommates and domestic workers—-to make up this world.

What’s surprising is the rapidity with which asexuality is tumbling out of the closets and the way asexuals are flaunting it as an integral part of normal, healthy life.

Check out the chatrooms or networks like AVEN (Asexuality Visibility and Education Network), founded by that Arch-American-Asexual David Jay in ‘01, and you will find that not having sex is not about laziness, dysfunction, lack of libido or opportunity nor is it about taking a position (no pun intended) or being a frustrated reject.

It’s also not about fear and loathing of sex in the age of the virus. This may explain why some New Age thinkers like Gabrielle Brown prefer the term `new celibacy’, adding, “In this way, perhaps we can best think of celibacy as `the rest state of sexuality’, where the sexual response becomes more diffuse, expanding in many directions beyond a simple genital response.”

She goes on to argue that although celibacy can be a repression of sexuality under some circumstances and lead to a diminished response to life and personal growth, it can also have quite the opposite effect—-be it spiritual, health-related or social—-if it’s chosen for positive reasons.

`The eastern counterpart of `new celibacy’ is brahmacharya, which seems harder to assimilate in a tradition that views sexuality as a fundamental, call it god-given part of human identity or Eros hard-wired into our psyche. According to some experts, the flurry of activity in the asexual movement is reminiscent of the beginnings of the gay revolution of the 1970s.

Others like Elizabeth Abbott, dean of women at Trinity College, University of Toronto, believe asexuality is likely to be a far milder trend because, “it doesn’t repel, it just doesn’t appeal”.

In 1999, Abbott’s own “History of Celibacy” became a runaway bestseller, raising the possibility that there are lots of people in the oxymoronic category `happy singles’. They may be below our radar today. Tomorrow, they could steam up into a critical mass.

Copyright © 2004 Times Internet Limited. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-961278,curpg-3.cms

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whoa whoa whoa!!! I go away for a few days and pandamonium occurs on here. First of all can I just say that asexuality is like all other alternate sexualities and that

IT IS OUR CHOICE

Yes it's unfair that we have to pay for their mistakes but if there was no sex then you all wouldn't be here today bitching about sex online. You really want the race to go down the lines of test-tube babies floating about in tanks and growing babies on our backs? Children aside, sex is fun for some people. Maybe not for us, but that's our choice. If we go around shouting "DON'T HAVE SEX" then we're no better than them shouting back "FRIGID". No better than vegetarians who rant at their friend for eating a bacon sandwich. No better than the anti-fur protestors throwing paint on people in their new leather jacket. No better than non-smokers who walk past bars and cough over-dramatically.

Just because you don't agree with sex doesn't mean you have to spoil it for everyone else. I talk about it with my friends - gay, straight, bisexual, whatever - and I don't let my disapproval of it get in the way. Why should it? I hate piercings and I think having extra holes and maiming your body is a stupid way of spending your money but I'm not going to waste my time standing outside a tatooist's parlour with leaflets on "Our Temple - the Human Body". At the end of the day, if our taxes don't go to pregnant teenagers, then it's just going to go to fund something else we hate. Life is like that. Get over it.

keith you said, "I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist."

in today's society, being a classist, is a glorified term for racist. although earlier, i did not want to call you a racist, because i believe it is hard not to stereotype people by race, and that most people are in fact racist, but few are intentional malicious.

because most hispanics are of lower income, being a classist is just saying that you find no pity in most hispanics.

i agreed with jen on everything, and i enjoyed all your comments. i thought keith was hilarious, and i hope the moderator didn't block him from discussions. i told all my friends about keith, and they all laughed hysterically. i wonder how people interact with him on a daily basis.

nik 20/f

Hi Therese, I don't expect this to happen either. I was just responding to the troll we have here.

I am totally for adoption for myself. I have NO desire to suffer for 9 months and even less desire at the thought of attempting to pass a watermelon sized little human through any orifice of my body. This is not a place I have ever wanted to go to. I do want children and I think it is wrong to create a situation where adoption really boils down to purchasing by the highest bidder.

Jen

On 17 Dec 2003, 23:31 +00:00, J Noble said:

Once people stopped truly stopped bearing children there would be none to adopt because everyone would become adults and die at some point. Then there would be no additional humans on this planet.

Well, I'm not expecting that to happen, ever. I'd just like to encourage more people to take that option seriously. I'm very proud of the fact that in my family there are four children by my parents, and only two of us had any children. My brother is starting late so I don't expect him to have more than two, and one of my sisters only has two. I really encourage negative population growth as a means of getting our numbers under control, and later, after this has been achieve, I would expect people to have no more than two children. If we had our populations under control, then we could easily sustain those who had less resources because there would be a huge surplus among those were well off. There is now a surplus, kind of, but there are so many needy people that I think the "well off" feel overwhelmed.

---

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

snip>Our famous

leaders have their heads up their asses.

Dang! That is painful!

Jen

On 17 Dec 2003, 19:32 +00:00, keith zarriello said:

What I don't understand is how all you asexuals can be defending, even promoting pregnancy...isn't sex required for pregnancy? And I thought we all agreed that adoption was a better option?

We aren't promoting pregnancy, just defending that poor, defenseless woman since she's not here to do it herself.

Yes, adoption is a better option at the moment, but hopefully, one day, it won't always be. Then it will be an equal option.

Just because we don't want sex doesn't mean we can't see that it's good for a lot of other people, however don't confuse things. Sex doesn't have to be only for pregnancy, it can be for fun too. In fact, I hope it is mainly for fun for most people, because otherwise we'll continue to be overrun by surplus children simply because deluded people wanted to have fun and forgot they should add birth control (condoms, the Pill, etc.) into the mix. I also blame overpopulation on those who advocate abstinence only and don't teach children about how to prevent pregnancy if they should happen to have sex anyway.

BTW, I was alarmed recently when I read that the Bush Administration's focus on abstinence and the "ABC" code is hurting people in Africa, where most AIDS now is from women getting AIDS from their husbands. Those women don't have a choice of abstaining from sex! Our famous leaders have their heads up their asses.

---

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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Nik, thanks for your lovely support.

Thank you for possessing a good sense of humor. Yes, Keith is entertaining with all of his insanity related rants. Quite comical. It seems he is tuckered out but I am sure he will return if allowed. He just needs to find his new twist because he has become oh um moldy so to speak.

Jen with a smile

keith you said, "I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist."

in today's society, being a classist, is a glorified term for racist. although earlier, i did not want to call you a racist, because i believe it is hard not to stereotype people by race, and that most people are in fact racist, but few are intentional malicious.

because most hispanics are of lower income, being a classist is just saying that you find no pity in most hispanics.

i agreed with jen on everything, and i enjoyed all your comments. i thought keith was hilarious, and i hope the moderator didn't block him from discussions. i told all my friends about keith, and they all laughed hysterically. i wonder how people interact with him on a daily basis.

nik 20/f

Yahoo! Groups Links

Jen, You seem to ignore the majority of what I write in my posts. And I'm not trying to fuel the fire anymore because you don't listen to what I say anyway. You just come up with lazy, smug, presumptious remarks because it's easy for you, being in the majority (what?) Well, at least on here the majority of people are "A" sexuals and not "Antisexuals" so that leaves me in the minority. I am making major attempts not to lower myself to your condescending level because it doesn't get anybody anywhere. If you were to go back and read some of my posts you'd find that I've done extensive volunteer work helping the less fortunate and that I am and always have been for the underdog. And right now, Antisexuals are the ultimate underdog. It saddens me that I have do defend myself like this. I only do it because I am a public persona and I don't want anything I say to be misconstrued to the point where it has a negative effect on my movement , which I work very hard on. I think you've had enough of a comeback. And just so you know, the incident with the woman on the train was fictious. I used it to spark debate. I find the results very interesting and it only confirms my belief that we Antisexuals are in serious need of a voice. Maybe we have to separate from the asexuals and start our own yahoogroup. But right now, I fear there are too few of us. So for the time being I guess we're stuck with each other, so let's attempt to be civil to each other. I would appreciate in the future having my posts read in their entirety and in context and not taking little snippets to use in personal attacks.

And to all of those who are saying sex is fun for some people. How would you really know?

Nik, thanks for your lovely support.

Thank you for possessing a good sense of humor. Yes, Keith is entertaining with all of his insanity related rants. Quite comical. It seems he is tuckered out but I am sure he will return if allowed. He just needs to find his new twist because he has become oh um moldy so to speak.

Jen with a smile

keith you said, "I'd say it would be more "classist" than racist."

in today's society, being a classist, is a glorified term for racist. although earlier, i did not want to call you a racist, because i believe it is hard not to stereotype people by race, and that most people are in fact racist, but few are intentional malicious.

because most hispanics are of lower income, being a classist is just saying that you find no pity in most hispanics.

i agreed with jen on everything, and i enjoyed all your comments. i thought keith was hilarious, and i hope the moderator didn't block him from discussions. i told all my friends about keith, and they all laughed hysterically. i wonder how people interact with him on a daily basis.

nik 20/f

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do want children and I think it is wrong to create a situation where adoption really boils down to purchasing by the highest bidder.

It doesn't, if you're willing to accept "hard to place" children, including those with disabilities. I'd like to adopt some autistic children.

J8

Sexuality is wrong. Nothing more to be said.

I think that kind of sums up our disagreement. I don't see anything wrong with sexuality per se, it's all in how you use it.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

REALLY??? Coz I live with one every day and quite frankly I'd like to murder him. But then again he's not severely autistic and he's smarter than social services and his mother give him credit for. he gets away with everything and I get bugger all even though I have mental problems too. AARGH!

On 18 Dec 2004, J Noble said:

I do want children and I think it is wrong to create a situation where adoption really boils down to purchasing by the highest bidder.

It doesn't, if you're willing to accept "hard to place" children, including those with disabilities. I'd like to adopt some autistic children.

J8

REALLY??? Coz I live with one every day and quite frankly I'd like to murder him. But then again he's not severely autistic and he's smarter than social services and his mother give him credit for. he gets away with everything and I get bugger all even though I have mental problems too. AARGH!

Sounds like you need a good counselor who knows about autism. How old is this autistic person?

As for me: yes, really. I am autistic myself, and I work with autistic kids (and adults), and if I were going to adopt children, that would be my first choice of what kind of children to adopt.

J8

i am always afraid of adoption, you hear these horror stories about the kids you adopt, alot of them have some serious mental defects, quick to rage, etc.

i dont think i could handle problems that are so unlike the problems i have. that is one of the reasons i believe will always get pregnant, because children made out of your DNA and your significant others DNA, is an extremely great thing. that means they will be a genetic mixture of the two of you, which is an extremely specail thing.

also i think i should be pregnant before i have a child, because if i am able to go through nine months of pain with a child, i should be able to raise a child for 21 years, with relatively no problems. i think pregnacy is like some sort of extreme test or education into rearing a child. while with adoption, all of a sudden there is this child, with no genetic link to you, and you are supposed to raise it, or atleast give it back within 30 days.

-nik