Haven for the Human Amoeba

For the record, association with AVEN is limited strictly to the fact that I really really want to encourage the growth of this operation (BIG need out there for a comprehensive asexual dating site.) I strongly encourage people to get on there and post profiles, even if it's just in the "looking for friends" section. The more people we put on there the higher the likelyhood that people will be able to find folks in their area, and forming local asexual communities could be all kinds of fun and useful.

JOOC, when you say "associated with AVEN" is that considered a good thing or a bad thing?

-DJ/AVENguy

In case you're not aware and are looking for a partner, asexualove.net is a free site (associated with AVEN) that allows one to post a profile. I'm still looking for a thirtiesh SWF with similar interests and life goals (see prior posting). Thanks

Yahoo! Groups Links

"associated with AVEN"-I meant it as informative (as in asexualove.net draws from AVEN), but I am quite appreciative of AVEN and asexualove.net. and have "contributed" to both. In case you didn't make the connection, I'm the fellow who had pizza with you in Portland :) Hello David.

For the record, association with AVEN is limited strictly to the fact that I really really want to encourage the growth of this operation (BIG need out there for a comprehensive asexual dating site.) I strongly encourage people to get on there and post profiles, even if it's just in the "looking for friends" section.

I just did so. Neat site. I particularly appreciate that there's a recognition that intersex people exist. One quibble about that, though: It says "Intersex Men and Women." The definition of intersexuality is that the sexual or reproductive organs do not differentiate normally--some of us are *not* men or women. I, for example, am neuter.

The more people we put on there the higher the likelyhood that people will be able to find folks in their area, and forming local asexual communities could be all kinds of fun and useful.

Yeah, that would definitely be very cool.

J8

Promise I'll fix that up Jim. Sooner rather than later - although it might not be until the weekend. Thanks for the notice.

Craig.

From

Jim Sinclair [mailto:jisincla@...]

Sent

Monday, 7 February 2005 1:10 PM

I just did so. Neat site. I particularly appreciate that there's a recognition that intersex people exist. One quibble about that, though: It says "Intersex Men and Women." The definition of intersexuality is that the sexual or reproductive organs do not differentiate normally--some of us are *not* men or women. I, for example, am neuter.

You say you are looking for a partner, but you do not leave an email for anyone to reply to you on.

I dont think it matters that much if you are good looking or not, it isnt like there is sexual attraction working, so it would matter more your spirit and character.

I hope you find someone that can accept you for yourself. Good Luck.

Awenydd

I'm a 24 year old male, soon to be 25. I was molested/raped when I was 13 years old by a stranger. This occurence was unfortunatly my first kiss, my first time to be intimate in any way with any one. As you can imagine it was very traumatic and while I have been able to lead a very happy, otherwise normal life, I have never been interested in sex. I have a hard time being intimate at all past hand-holding and hugging. I have come to accept this as who I am, but I can't seem to find any women who understand and are willing to put up with a guy who won't/can't be physically intimate. The first few dates are always great, then as the relationship progresses they expect more intimacy and I just can't give that to them. When I try to explain my situation it either makes them run away or think they can change me. I CAN'T CHANGE - this happened, this is who I am. I've tried therapy and even hypnosis. Anyway, other than the fact that I don't want sex I am a completely normal and nice guy. I want to get married. I want a family. I want to grow old with someone. I'm pretty good looking...no brad pitt, but I've turned a few heads. I'm physically fit...run 6 miles a day. I have my own house and co- own a business. I have a dog (bojangles) who is one of my best friends. I've been really blessed in life and I have everything I need except someone to share it with. I live in Tennessee and because of my work and family would not consider moving. If you are interested please drop me a line. bojanglesdad@y...

Hello I'm a girl, I'm 22 years old.

I've never really felt like having sex or masturbating, made me feel very left out when all my friends etc reached puberty and suddently could only think of one thing. It was like it didnt affect me. I did have the normal physical development, body hair etc, but somehow i missed out on getting the sexual desires. I have tried masturbating a few times to see if I would get anything out of it, but the feeling I got was more like when you are eating something you dont like the taste of, instead of the pleasent feelings people normaly describe. I'm wondering if something is wrong with me, or maybe I'm just asexual?

Hope you have some thoughts

MArie

Marie, you sound fine. I went through the same thing in high school. Girls would scream out from a car at a boy and I couldn't figure out the reason but they were so happy too. I tried screaming like them once and it was boring and then I felt sad because I thought I was wierd or something was not right with me.

Well, I like lots of things in life including affection but I don't have any desire for sex.

There are different descriptions of Asexuals and one is someone who has zero sex drive and that would include no pleasure from masterbation.

You are okay, just different from most of society.

Here is a list of other Asexaul contacts.

Jen

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

http://asexuality.org/discussion/index.php Website with lots of asexual conversation.

http://www.asexualove.net/a/personals.cgi?action=dispcat

Hello I'm a girl, I'm 22 years old.

I've never really felt like having sex or masturbating, made me feel very left out when all my friends etc reached puberty and suddently could only think of one thing. It was like it didnt affect me. I did have the normal physical development, body hair etc, but somehow i missed out on getting the sexual desires. I have tried masturbating a few times to see if I would get anything out of it, but the feeling I got was more like when you are eating something you dont like the taste of, instead of the pleasent feelings people normaly describe. I'm wondering if something is wrong with me, or maybe I'm just asexual?

Hope you have some thoughts

MArie

Yahoo! Groups Links

Valentine's Day Amoeba Style Asexuality is on the rise.

by Morgan McLaughlin Hornet Features Editor February 09, 2005

No joke. More and more people are becoming aware of this option and identity. Some may joke of not being able to understand or get along with the opposite sex and talk of giving up or "throwing in the towel". Many attribute problems that occur in relationships to sexual relations, and although celibacy may cover this issue, what about those who feel no need or desire for sex? "Sexual people's attractions tend to include the desire for sex whereas asexual desires tend toward other kinds of intimacy" explains The Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN). More commonly known as www.asexuality.org, AVEN provides a forum for asexual people and those unsure of their orientation a place to discuss and post questions about sexuality. Asexual people can be aware of sexual desire however they are not motivated to act upon it. In October of last year a study published in The Journal of Sex Research found that one in 100 adults is asexual (CNN.com). Activists have even started to promote awareness by making T-shirts and pamphlets. Asexuality seems to be making a name for itself in sexual orientation, just like homosexuality or heterosexuality. In no way does this suggest that asexual people do not find love or happiness, but it may suggest the possibility of finding a new level of intimacy and closeness to a special someone is possible without physicality. For many, Valentine's Day is a romantic, sweet, mushy day in which sweethearts can express their love for one another with chocolates, flowers, dinner, and teddy bears holding hearts. For some of us, however, Valentines Day is nothing but a dark, purely commercialized, sham of a holiday. Those without a special someone, feel bitter feelings couples and anger at past relationships surface. Valentine's Day oftentimes becomes filled with questions and doubt. Why don't I have someone? Will I ever find that one person for me? Well this year there is a question you may not have pondered before; Am I Asexual?

© 2005 The Hornet

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GLBT Issues and Life - A is for Asexuality Author: K. Hayes Published on: October 21, 2001

Frigid? Ugly? Boring? A plant?

These were the responses I got when I tossed out, "So, hey, what do you think an asexual is?" (Alright, so my friends aren't too smart.) There's a lot more to asexuality that being "frigid", and it's not just for single celled organisms. Asexuality is something seldom heard and rarely discussed. AVEN (The Asexuality Visibility and Education Network) describes asexuality simply as a person who does not experience sexual attraction (they also point out that this does not necessarily mean a lack of sex drive, just a lack of attraction). It's not impossible. So, if a person experiences little to no sexual attraction, where do they fit in on the sexuality scale? At one end is homosexuality, at the other, heterosexuality, with bisexuality, transgender homo/bi/heterosexuality and anything else falling in between...but where do asexuals go? First of all, sexuality is so fluid that a scale simply won't work. People that start out in life considering themselves heterosexual may eventually recognize that they are bisexual or homosexual. People may flow from one sexuality or sexual preference to another--or even none at all. Asexuality may just be another path for some people to follow. There is nothing wrong with asexuality, although asexuality is sometimes a result of sexual desire disorder. The Intimacy Institute defines sexual desire disorder as "...a persistent absence of sexual fantasies or desire for engaging in sex. Further, the individual exhibits an intense aversion to either heterosexual or homosexual genital sexual contact...Intensive desire disorders, however, may reflect complicated psychological problems that are difficult to treat. In addition, some individuals may be biologically incapable of sexual interest or involvement in sexual activity and, although members of a sexual species, are themselves asexual." For some people, asexuality is a choice. It may originally start as celibacy due to personal or religious reasons, and evolve into a desire not to enter into a sexual relationship. Some people feel that sex is overrated, and that relationships are deeper and more meaningful without an underlying desire for sexual contact. Whether it’s biological, emotional, or a personal decision, asexuality is too often overlooked. It encompasses so much more than being “frigid”, and should be recognized as such. Considering how many relationships are based solely on sex, or how many friendships are ruined because of sex, I really can’t see the harm in asexuality.

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Student provides forum for asexuality discussion

By Katey Rich

Features Editor

Thanks in part to the efforts of David Jay ’04, people all over the world are finding the name and the identity they have been searching for: asexual.

The weekend of Nov. 22, seven people from various parts of the country, including Jay, gathered in person for the first time to film an episode of the Canadian Discovery Channel’s show “Sex Files” on asexuality. The group met through the website Jay created, www.asexuality.org,

The group spent Sunday meeting with the show’s production crew, during which they held a question-and-answer forum on the steps of Olin and went bowling. Jay sat through an individual interview.

“Everyone I think felt pretty good about it,” Jay said. “People were really happy to do something to raise visibility.”

The group discussed many issues relating to asexuality with the show’s producers, including relationships and self-identity. For some, asexuality does not simply affect one’s views on sex.

“It goes beyond who you happen to be sleeping with or not, to how you approach the world and how you approach relationships,” said Todd Niquette of St.Paul, MN. “At the end of the day it’s really about a broader question. People who don’t have that kind of drive or attraction, they have a pretty tough road ahead.”

The website was founded three years ago by Jay, who initially intended to provide information on asexuality and later added the forum, a message board with over 600 members.

“I founded it because asexuality is something that I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about and have had a lot of struggles with in different ways,” Jay said. “I wanted to make resources available and see if there was some way that I could build a community and find other asexual people.”

When first considering a word for his own sexual identity while still in high school, Jay chose “asexual,” which was not commonly used at the time and has become internationally accepted due to his efforts.

Asexuality is described on the website as a person who feels sexual drive but no attraction to others, a person who feels non-sexual attraction to others, either or both.

For many members of the site, understanding their identity, labeling it and then coming across a website addressing it was a long process.

“I had been looking for a word to define myself,” said Kate Goldfield, a student at Goucher College in Baltimore. “The word asexual sort of popped into my mind. I was excited to find that I wasn’t the only one to experience these feelings. It definitely was a freeing experience for me.”

“I realized it was a frame of reference and a way of looking at oneself and looking at my own experiences that gave me a language to talk about something that I had experienced all of my life, but I had never seen talked about before,” said David Warner, of Falls Church, VA.

Spreading information about asexuality is a major objective of Jay’s and the site’s members, and they see the television special as an important opportunity to raise visibility.

“The fact they’re doing an episode on people who do not experience sexual attraction is pretty telling and I think as far as we’re concerned for people who as far as we knew two years ago didn’t exist two years ago, it’s pretty wild and out there,” Warner said.

According to Goldfield, asexuality has a slightly different role within queer politics.

“Homosexuality is not heterosexual and asexuality is not heterosexual,” Goldfield said. “In both cases they’re about something that goes against what is the norm. There is the problem where queer activism is inherently sex-focused.”

Unlike homosexuality, asexuality has not faced great resistance as it has inched closer to the mainstream.

“In terms of threats to the government and the established social order, it’s pretty low on the list,” Niquette said.

“John Ashcroft would probably like us,” Warner added with a laugh.

Despite an apathetic public reaction, asexuals are no more likely to be understood or accepted by others.

“People have a difficult time being accepted,” Jay said. “I think a lot of people have a difficult time understanding or accepting the idea of asexuality.”

In a culture that often puts undue focus on sex and sexuality, asexual people often find themselves alienated from the mainstream, and even their friends.

“I think asexual people run into problems whenever sexuality is both assumed and when sexuality is assumed to be important,” Jay said.

“I think where I experience the most profound disconnect in talking to other people isn’t so much talking about sex or sexuality as being the person in any social group I’ve ever been a part of who’s permanently uncoupled,” Warner said.

As the site grows in popularity—Jay estimates 30,000 hits per day—and opportunities like the Discovery Channel show arise, some group members hope to further increase their efforts generating awareness.

“With the existence [of the word asexual] eventually will come acceptance and people will understand,” said Josh Reagan, a student at the University of Connecticut in Hartford. “I think that right now it’s just starting to get off the ground and it’s going to go a lot further.”

The Wesleyan Argus © 2003 Wesleyan University

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Hi Debbie, I know that fear too well. That is why I don't date. I don't want to date unless I KNOW I am going out with another Asexual.

Out of curiosity: What is the definition of a "date"?

J8

Hello Jen, I think maybe we have 'met' before on the AVEN site maybe?

These tests always have interested me but it's true that you can get a different answer sometimes. The type that comes up most often for me is ISFJ and it seems to suit me quite well. They never are 100% accurate of course.

I suppose I could introduce myself here and say briefly that I am 47, male, living in France and seeking that special person with whom actual intercourse is not on the menu. Naturally there's more to life than sex but as it is this subject that sets us apart from others so often I have mentioned this aspect first.

There will be more.

Best wishes , Nick.

http://www.typefocus.com/s_complimentaryform.html

I ended up with 2 different results. At the end of the first one it asked me if I agreed, disagreed or was not sure. I said I was not sure so it gave me another test and therefore a different result.

Jen

First results: Based on the answers you submitted, the program has determined your personality type. It is important to confirm these results using the buttons below the picture.

INTJ.

I - Introversion

N - Intuition

T - Thinking

J - Judgement

Weak Moderate Strong

If you are an Introvert, you prefer your energy to flow inwards, and your attention is naturally drawn to the inner world of understanding. Because you focus inwards, you tend to become more thoughtful, and your interests are deeper.

Introverts tend to keep their thoughts to themselves.

Picture of Introvert: thinking about something; making sure it "fits" before sharing with others.

Analogy: rock tossed into a pond - hitting once and sinking deeply.

Common Qualities of Introverts: · Attracted to in-depth analysis · Like to think, sometimes without talking · Like to understand

Keyword: Inner-directed

Second Results:

ENFJ December 22nd, 2004

Common Qualities of Extraverts:

Attracted to many different things Like to talk, sometimes without thinking Like to get involved, make it happen Keyword: Outgoing

Common Qualities of Intuitives:

Notice the whole picture Theoretical - interested in WHY things work Creative - like to experiment Keyword: Imaginative

Common Qualities of Feelers:

Appreciate sensitivity Quick to give support Merciful - individual circumstances noted Keyword: Compassionate

Common Qualities of Judgers:

Are comfortable when everything is organized Like to have a time-framed schedule Decide quickly - sometimes bossy Keyword: Organized

General Description: ENFJs glow with warmth and sympathy. They are creative and organized and enjoy helping others achieve their personal goals. ENFJs want to understand people, so they are interested in theories of human behaviour. Since ENFJs bring out the best in others, they make popular leaders and faithful supporters. They are gifted communicators.

Career Insights: ENFJs value harmony and personal growth as ideals so they prefer to work in settings that promote these ideals. Since they are outgoing and organized, ENFJs adapt easily to organizational policies and procedures - as long as the procedures are in line with their idealized goals. ENFJs will enjoy work that helps people get along better and improve themselves. Careers often chosen by ENFJs include the religious professions, health care, psychology, writing, fine arts, teaching (art, drama, music) and counselling.

TO PRINT: click the browser 'print' button at the top of the screen.

To take the FULL interactive program that will help you decide what careers are best for you and create your unique career reports.

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On 3 Jan 2005, J Noble said:

Hi Debbie, I know that fear too well. That is why I don't date. I don't want to date unless I KNOW I am going out with another Asexual.

Out of curiosity: What is the definition of a "date"?

I would define it as two people going out with the intention of getting to know each other better while enjoying a social event of some type (movie, dinner, dance, etc.)

In the U.S. there is the stereotype of the man afterwards demanding sex, but I see no reason why this should be accommodated. Anyone who behaves in this manner should be dropped like a hot potato because they are obviously either deluded or insane. (And if they get dropped often enough, they might actually get the message.)

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

--- In [email protected], Asexual Lady , although asexuality is sometimes a result of sexual desire disorder.

Hey there,

I'm fairly annoyed about asexuality being described as a result of sexual desire disorder, because it implies asexuality is a disorder that needs fixing, as though asexuality is a paraphalia, being associated with voyerism and the like.

I'm reminded of the days when homosexuality was described as a psychological disorder that should be treated. Nowadays homosexuality is widely regarded as a life-style that need not be treated. Asexuality is also a lifestyle that causes no harm to society or individuals (except to those who experience society's scorn and lack of understanding for their asexuality), I feel describing asexuality as a result of a disorder is shameful.

Asexuality is a way of life and I for one don't want to treat it, life is too fulfilling when you are doing what you want to try being someone who you're not.

"All you spazzies and you freaks, Go and do your thing 'cause your unique, that as long as it don't hurt no body else, and don't be afraid to be yourself, special dedication is it so wrong, to all lifestyles, size, shapes and forms" Beastie Boys

Cheers

Figured I'd do a Google search for asexuality to see what happens. Ended up here through AVEN.

I've never been interested in relationships. I'm extremely private and solitary. I sometimes wonder if I'm confusing my misanthropy for asexuality. Who knows. I'm more introverted than anything.

I guess I'm a bona fide asexual. I've never been in a relationship, nor am I looking for or interested in one (sexual or asexual).

Living in a conservative area of the midwest, everyone thinks it's weird not to knock-up your girlfriend at 19 and then get married. I always get puzzled looks when I tell people I've never been married (or even close) and don't have kids. I never give that information freely. It's always the busy-bodies who want fodder to fuel their rumor mills.

Anyway I'm a 33 yo straight (not that it matters) male. Veteran, Atheist, Libertarian, College graduate (BS Aviation Management), cappuccino fiend, death metal maniac, indie movie buff, and all around dickhead when I want to be.

I can usually talk about anything. I need to do more reading. If I had a dime for every book I own that I've actually read, I'd be a millionaire.

I was at a medical website and read something that made me laugh harder than I usually do. It was a list of symptoms of maturbation. The last symptom listed (I shit you not) was "Denial when asked about it". Isn't that the funniest shit you've ever heard?

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't masturbate!!

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Hi Blastido, there are many people in your position. The biggest problem is that most of us live so far apart. Some in different countries. I live in Northern California and I'm nearly 49 so there is a large age difference. There are several Asexual lists. Some of the people like being alone. I don't like being alone. Some want a partner just as you do without the genital contact and a good many don't want kissing either but they love affection.

I belong to several lists but they are not very active. I'll give you the list. Then I belong to the Aven site but I think more of them are the stay single type. I think that's mostly because the majority are still in their 20's. Then there is the Asexual love site for people who want to hook up in an asexual relationship.

Welcome to the group.

Jen

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

http://asexuality.org

http://www.asexualove.net/a/personals.cgi?action=dispcat

Hi , I know this group is for independent asexuals , but I haven't had any luck on the asexual singles boards so figured I would try here . I'm a 37 year old asexual male who's in decent shape and looking for someone who wants an asexual relationship. I am very into cuddling and showing of afection, just not into genital sex.I didn't think it would be so hard to find a woman with similar interests ... I usually have no trouble getting a date , just ending a date .. Most women I've met look at me weird when I don't take advantage of their advances .Some have even gone as far as to question my sexuality !! Sorry , I'm not gay , not in the slightest . If you share my same feelings , GREAT !! Its a start !! Contact me and lets see where it goes !

(There are 2 pics of me on my Yahoo profile ... I have just let my hair grow in for the second time to donate to Locks Of Love , so don't get scared off if you're not into long hair )

Blastido

Maybe it would help if you were less picky, and tried to be serious and honest...? Just a tip.

Nickie

Hi , I know this group is for independent asexuals , but I haven't had any luck on the asexual singles boards so figured I would try here . I'm a 37 year old asexual male who's in decent shape and looking for someone who wants an asexual relationship. I am very into cuddling and showing of afection, just not into genital sex.I didn't think it would be so hard to find a woman with similar interests ... I usually have no trouble getting a date , just ending a date .. Most women I've met look at me weird when I don't take advantage of their advances .Some have even gone as far as to question my sexuality !! Sorry , I'm not gay , not in the slightest . If you share my same feelings , GREAT !! Its a start !! Contact me and lets see where it goes !

(There are 2 pics of me on my Yahoo profile ... I have just let my hair grow in for the second time to donate to Locks Of Love , so don't get scared off if you're not into long hair )

Blastido

is your yahoo name blastido?

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There is 1 message in this issue.

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1. Re: Hi From: "nickieand" <ezj544f@...>

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Message

1

Date

Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:47:34 -0000

From

"nickieand" <ezj544f@...>

Subject

Re: Hi

blastido said:

Maybe it would help if you were less picky, and tried to be serious and honest...? Just a tip.

Nickie

Hi , I know this group is for independent asexuals , but I haven't had any luck on the asexual singles boards so figured I would try here . I'm a 37 year old asexual male who's in decent shape and looking for someone who wants an asexual relationship. I am very into cuddling and showing of afection, just not into genital sex.I didn't think it would be so hard to find a woman with similar interests ... I usually have no trouble getting a date , just ending a date .. Most women I've met look at me weird when I don't take advantage of their advances .Some have even gone as far as to question my sexuality !! Sorry , I'm not gay , not in the slightest . If you share my same feelings , GREAT !! Its a start !! Contact me and lets see where it goes !

(There are 2 pics of me on my Yahoo profile ... I have just let my hair grow in for the second time to donate to Locks Of Love , so don't get scared off if you're not into long hair )

Blastido

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None of my messages are going through ... Posted a couple aof messages a few days ago and still not showing in the messages ..

Blast

you didn't say if you prefer men or women or does it matter?

How many asexual people does it matter to? For that matter, without sexual activity, monogamy is not an issue--does an asexual "partnership" necessarily have to be a couple? Can three or four or five people share their lives in a "family" relationship?

J8, pondering

Jim Sinclair wrote:

On 16 Jan 2005, J Noble said:

you didn't say if you prefer men or women or does it matter?

How many asexual people does it matter to? For that matter, without sexual activity, monogamy is not an issue--does an asexual "partnership" necessarily have to be a couple? Can three or four or five people share their lives in a "family" relationship?

J8, pondering

For me, I would still prefer a relationship with a single individual. I haven't given up intimacy, it's only sex that I'm not interested in.

The Dave is now available on MSN at somecalgaryguy@... Gmail invites available, email me!

My impression of those identifying as asexual is that the majority of them have a sex preference for their partner and want to be in a monogamous relationship. That said, there doesn't seem to be many who are seriously interested in a close relationship. Notice all the qualifiers I'm using. I also have the impression that there are more women than men identifying as asexuals, but that there are more men than women looking for relationships.

Can three or four or five people share their lives in a "family" relationship?

I think some might enjoy that, but I'd feel crowded. I'd rather live in a commune where I can have my own home and others like me in other homes nearby. It's been done before, BTW. The problem is recruiting: since asexuals don't reproduce, they need to continually persuade others to join them in order for the community to survive.

Google results for celibate community: http://www.google.com/search?q=celibate+community Results are flawed because they are mixed in with issues of gay sex.

The Last of the Shakers http://www.discovernewengland.org/Articles/Article.asp?ArticleID=13

Maybe someone else can come up with ideas or information; I tried "asexual community" but didn't come up with historical data, probably because the term as we use it is still fairly new.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

I also have the impression that there are more women than men identifying as asexuals, but that there are more men than women looking for relationships.

Probably because men benefit from being in a relationship and women usually don't.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

tlshell@... wrote:

On 27 Feb 2004, 08:35 +00:00, dastraube1 said:

I also have the impression that there are more women than men identifying as asexuals, but that there are more men than women looking for relationships.

Probably because men benefit from being in a relationship and women usually don't.

Oh? How do men benefit more then women? What's the difference?

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