Haven for the Human Amoeba

Dining room-sized tables to discourage parties of two- either eat with tons of friends or get to meet random strangers over your meal. (Also a diner-style booth for those who'd rather remain solitary.)

Communal dining? How ab-so-lute-ly un-American. I'd love it except that I can't hear too well, so this would be very frustrating except on an "eat and run" basis.

No candles

OK, since they don't promote visibility very well.

Couches in a circle, either for lounging or to serve as a meeting area for different groups (they can be reserved ahead of time)

Now this I could go for, seriously. The only problem would be that people would be trying to squeeze in "one more chair." If we use round benches, then dresses and skirts would have to be banned too. Do asexual women favor pants?

A wide-open greenspace, people can check out picnic blankets, frisbees, soccer balls, etc.

I like that too. I need an excuse to exercise...I would also need to rent out a person to go with these things.

Open Mic every thursday

Hmm, I would either talk everyone to death or have nothing to say.

Big Fat Organized bulletin board for posting everything from events to activity requests (Looking for 4 people to play basketball, email:)

We have one of those in our laundry room and I never feel the "urge" to post anything that makes sense. I'm tempted to post nonsense sometimes though. (-;

Markers in bathrooms to encourage stall wall discourse

From what I recall, bathroom discourse doesn't really promote asexuality. Indeed, *quite* the opposite...

My idea: We should have a rent-a-dog service for people who are interested in taking a dog for a walk but don't really want to have the bother of taking it home. Walking with a dog is a great device for two people to keep the conversation from getting too intimate.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

Lots of people (not just asexual ones) like to meet in restaurants. I, however, am autistic, and restaurants are *not* autistic-friendly places. (I don't doubt there are some autistic people who enjoy going to restaurants. But most autistic people have sensory sensitivities that make it challenging.) Considering that asexuality--or at least being "out* about asexuality--seems to be somewhat more common among autistics than among neurotypicals, could it be possible to create an asexual community that would be easy for asexual autistics to participate in?

I find restaurants challenging because of the noise, but if I am signing then I don't have as much of a problem. I was just thinking restaurant due to the lighting; I hate bars because I am stumbling around in the dark and can't see well enough to converse. Any public place that was well-lit would be fine with me, preferably not too crowded. For example, there's a Chinese "all you can eat" restaurant near where I live and they don't get many customers during the daytime, so it's ideal for me then, but I probably wouldn't like it during dinnertime. The restaurant is rather drab but they serve good chow mein vegetables.

I don't know that much about autism to know what exactly is ideal, but I find trees and green plants are very soothing to the eye, so maybe a place with lots of potted trees and an indoor fountain, potted plants around in strategic locations, would be a good start? Perhaps also a background of muted colors on the walls, such as pastels in natural shades? For this design, windows should look out on small walled gardens rather than city streets. Actually, now that I think about it, sounds rather like a moorish home...shelter from the outside world. One question, are small to medium sized rooms OK, or would large rooms be more appropriate?

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

For the benifit of the group, can you please explain how you became asexual?

I know this isn't addressed to me, but this reminds me of someone who got mad at me because I didn't really "know" my sexuality. I know that I'm not like other people, but that's about *all* I know. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "asexual" until recently, and to be honest, I am more annoyed with myself than happy about it, I would rather have something to identify that I like because being nonsexual feels like, well, being neutered in society.

Life wasn't designed for people to live like solitary atoms, they are supposed to economically and emotionally have someone else in their lives for security and long-term stability. Certainly, in the U.S., we singles can't depend on the government as long as the damned Republicans are busy ruining things, and most people aren't independently wealthy. I don't even *want* to be wealthy in any case because I consider it a bad influence on people to aspire to that kind of thing.

Comments?

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

I was just curious, is all. It might be interesting conversation for us all to share how we came to identify ourselves as being asexuals.

I, for one, was puttering around the internet and stumbled across the AVEN site. It made more sense than many things I've seen in the past coupld of years, and then it suddenly clicked in my brain why I'd been having trouble in hetero relationships. Most men my age are intersted in sex. I'm not. They'd insist that there was something wrong with me, and I knew better.... So for me, it wasn't as much a becoming thing as it was a realisation thing - "Oh yeah, I guess that describes me pretty well".

~Kt. 26/F/NJ

For the benifit of the group, can you please explain how you became asexual?

I know this isn't addressed to me, but this reminds me of someone who got mad at me because I didn't really "know" my sexuality. I know that I'm not like other people, but that's about *all* I know. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "asexual" until recently, and to be honest, I am more annoyed with myself than happy about it, I would rather have something to identify that I like because being nonsexual feels like, well, being neutered in society.

Life wasn't designed for people to live like solitary atoms, they are supposed to economically and emotionally have someone else in their lives for security and long-term stability. Certainly, in the U.S., we singles can't depend on the government as long as the damned Republicans are busy ruining things, and most people aren't independently wealthy. I don't even *want* to be wealthy in any case because I consider it a bad influence on people to aspire to that kind of thing.

Comments?

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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Ok, a few years ago I was in a mountainbike accident , broke the center bar clean off of the bicycle , losing most feeling in ... uhhh... at the point of impact ....after many months , my doctor informed me that there is a chance that it will slowly come back , but 1) I haven't had the use of it in so long , that I haven't got the desire any more, I have actually grown discusted at the thought of it .

This is probably loss of libido due to lack of sexual activity. A psychiatrist could tell you more than that, but it doesn't mean the problem is permanent, that really depends on a lot of other factors, some physical and some emotional. I would guess that a lot of the emotional aspect depends on how you were before you had the accident. It doesn't sound like you had much experience beforehand, so maybe it is permanent. I think you should consult a psychiatrist (doctor + psychology) to have the physical and mental aspects examined and a more current diagnosis given. Or maybe an MD and a psychologist consulting together might be able to come up with something, but a psychiatrist has both sides of the equation so would seem to be more appropriate in this case.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi [email protected] / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

HA HA. I was just reminded of that scene in "Dumb & Dumber" where that blind kid in the wheelchair named Timmy was petting his dead parakeet with its head taped on saying "Pretty bird, pretty bird".

On 3 Mar 2004, 00:40 +00:00, Jonathan Brennan said:

So what does everyone make of this "Bird flu" pandemic?

Don't go to southeast Asia and pet the birds. (-:

It'll make it's way to the west eventually, and I hope we are ready for it by then.

On a side note, rather morbid, this could save social security...bad thought, I know. I often think the Republicans are up to no good, so when they do things such as not funding AIDS, or failing to prepare for the bird flu, this kind of thought often occurs to me.

---

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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Blast, I am sorry you went through such a trauma and terrible injury. I think the injury is horrific in itself and clearly very personal.

Jen

Hi , I had just mailed someone yesterday exlaining my situation , so I get to cut and paste and just add a little and get to save my two typing fingers from wearing down too much! wooohoo !! LOL

Ok, a few years ago I was in a mountainbike accident , broke the center bar clean off of the bicycle , losing most feeling in ... uhhh... at the point of impact ....after many months , my doctor informed me that there is a chance that it will slowly come back , but 1) I haven't had the use of it in so long , that I haven't got the desire any more, I have actually grown discusted at the thought of it . I actually got to reflect on past relationships and think with something other then my "point of impact" (LOL) . I have had one sexual experience since and it was more then horrible . I realized that I missed the affection part of a relationship , but not the sex .I actually found the whole act disgusting while doing it . We broke up and a week later I found out I had contracted an STD which just added to my feelings on future sexual experiences 2) even if things came back to normal and it did get up , and I was able to get past my nerves ,past the image of our privates going at it and past the pain , one little knock on the wrong spot to cause me pain and down it will go , so again , no interest and 3)I'm not interested in sitting around the rest of my life waiting on a chance that it comes back and I suddenly find it enjoyable again ..

Blast

kweenkmatt@a... said:

Blastido,

You made a comment in that last post that was very interesting. How does one "become asexual", exactly? Is it same way one "becomes" homosexual or heterosexual?

I believe for most individuals that it is more a discovery, rather than a transformation. Either their natural inclination is towards asexuality, or they were forced into a sexual relationship and realised it was wrong for them - or something of that nature. Perhaps I may be presumptous and say that many homosexual folks go through the same thing, too. They don't just *become* gay - they just happen to realise that they prefer the same gender.

For the benifit of the group, can you please explain how you became asexual? Thanks.

~Kt. 26/F/NJ

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Hi Everyone, Okay, lets all smile. C'mon give it a try. Okay, smile bigger. Smile without laughing. Keep that smile while saying "This is a good day."

Okay did you do it without laughing?

I bet you feel better.

Jen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For years I have not wanted sex but I did not know there was a name for it (asexual) until recently. I was not born this way though I know. My lack of desire and interest comes from repeated trauma. My lack of desire is quite deeply ingrained by now. Awenydd

kweenkmatt@... wrote:

I was just curious, is all. It might be interesting conversation for us all to share how we came to identify ourselves as being asexuals.

I, for one, was puttering around the internet and stumbled across the AVEN site. It made more sense than many things I've seen in the past coupld of years, and then it suddenly clicked in my brain why I'd been having trouble in hetero relationships. Most men my age are intersted in sex. I'm not. They'd insist that there was something wrong with me, and I knew better.... So for me, it wasn't as much a becoming thing as it was a realisation thing - "Oh yeah, I guess that describes me pretty well".

~Kt. 26/F/NJ

For the benifit of the group, can you please explain how you became asexual?

I know this isn't addressed to me, but this reminds me of someone who got mad at me because I didn't really "know" my sexuality. I know that I'm not like other people, but that's about *all* I know. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "asexual" until recently, and to be honest, I am more annoyed with myself than happy about it, I would rather have something to identify that I like because being nonsexual feels like, well, being neutered in society.

Life wasn't designed for people to live like solitary atoms, they are supposed to economically and emotionally have someone else in their lives for security and long-term stability. Certainly, in the U.S., we singles can't depend on the government as long as the damned Republicans are busy ruining things, and most people aren't independently wealthy. I don't even *want* to be wealthy in any case because I consider it a bad influence on people to aspire to that kind of thing.

Comments?

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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I have not seen either.

I also like SciFi and Fantasy. The last movie I saw was Constantine. Awenydd

tlshell@... wrote:

I watched Spongebob Squarepants The Movie on DVD the other day. It was hilarious. Anyone seen Million Dollar Baby?

I have read that "Million Dollar Baby" is Clint Eastwood's revenge on the wheelchair crowd.

Other than that, I only pay to see SciFi, Fantasy, Mysteries, or Suspense/Spy movies. Anything else, I consider blatantly boring. I haven't got a DVD player yet so if I watch at home, it's on VHS.

The last time I recall going to a theatre was to see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which was pretty damn good.

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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My cousin has Asperger's. Noise and flourescent lights bother her. Plant life is soothing. For a restaurant I would say maybe skylights for lighting, gardens for a view, plants and fountains for decor, high backed booths in a semicircle for seating. Awenydd

tlshell@... wrote:

Lots of people (not just asexual ones) like to meet in restaurants. I, however, am autistic, and restaurants are *not* autistic-friendly places. (I don't doubt there are some autistic people who enjoy going to restaurants. But most autistic people have sensory sensitivities that make it challenging.) Considering that asexuality--or at least being "out* about asexuality--seems to be somewhat more common among autistics than among neurotypicals, could it be possible to create an asexual community that would be easy for asexual autistics to participate in?

I find restaurants challenging because of the noise, but if I am signing then I don't have as much of a problem. I was just thinking restaurant due to the lighting; I hate bars because I am stumbling around in the dark and can't see well enough to converse. Any public place that was well-lit would be fine with me, preferably not too crowded. For example, there's a Chinese "all you can eat" restaurant near where I live and they don't get many customers during the daytime, so it's ideal for me then, but I probably wouldn't like it during dinnertime. The restaurant is rather drab but they serve good chow mein vegetables.

I don't know that much about autism to know what exactly is ideal, but I find trees and green plants are very soothing to the eye, so maybe a place with lots of potted trees and an indoor fountain, potted plants around in strategic locations, would be a good start? Perhaps also a background of muted colors on the walls, such as pastels in natural shades? For this design, windows should look out on small walled gardens rather than city streets. Actually, now that I think about it, sounds rather like a moorish home...shelter from the outside world. One question, are small to medium sized rooms OK, or would large rooms be more appropriate?

Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi tlshell@... / http://tlshell.cnc.net/

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Hi Awenydd, Noise is a huge problem. I don't even listen to music. I use ear molds as ear plugs. The ear molds are the same kind deaf people use for hearing aids but mine are closed solid and I still maintain conversation due to the accute hearing I have. High backed booths are the best. You seem to have a pretty good idea of what type of enviroment is best for someone with these sensitivities.

Jen

My cousin has Asperger's. Noise and flourescent lights bother her. Plant life is soothing. For a restaurant I would say maybe skylights for lighting, gardens for a view, plants and fountains for decor, high backed booths in a semicircle for seating. Awenydd

tlshell@... wrote:

On 8 Mar 2004, 16:59 +00:00, Jim Sinclair said:

Lots of people (not just asexual ones) like to meet in restaurants. I, however, am autistic, and restaurants are *not* autistic-friendly places. (I don't doubt there are some autistic people who enjoy going to restaurants. But most autistic people have sensory sensitivities that make it challenging.) Considering that asexuality--or at least being "out* about asexuality--seems to be somewhat more common among autistics than among neurotypicals, could it be possible to create an asexual community that would be easy for asexual autistics to participate in?

I find restaurants challenging because of the noise, but if I am signing then I don't have as much of a problem. I was just thinking restaurant due to the lighting; I hate bars because I am stumbling around in the dark and can't see well enough to converse. Any public place that was well-lit would be fine with me, preferably not too crowded. For example, there's a Chinese "all you can eat" restaurant near where I live and they don't get many customers during the daytime, so it's ideal for me then, but I probably wouldn't like it during dinnertime. The restaurant is rather drab but they serve good chow mein vegetables.

I don't know that much about autism to know what exactly is ideal, but I find trees and green plants are very soothing to the eye, so maybe a place with lots of potted trees and an indoor fountain, potted plants around in strategic locations, would be a good start? Perhaps also a background of muted colors on the walls, such as pastels in natural shades? For this design, windows should look out on small walled gardens rather than city streets. Actually, now that I think about it, sounds rather like a moorish home...shelter from the outside world. One question, are small to medium sized rooms OK, or would large rooms be more appropriate?

---

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Oh gosh, I would not want to live without music. I love music. Everything from Gershwin, Jazz, Rock & Roll, to Classical. Right now I am listening to a John Adams piece. It is Harmonium, performed by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, with a chorus.

Hi Awenydd, Noise is a huge problem. I don't even listen to music. I use ear molds as ear plugs. The ear molds are the same kind deaf people use for hearing aids but mine are closed solid and I still maintain conversation due to the accute hearing I have. High backed booths are the best. You seem to have a pretty good idea of what type of enviroment is best for someone with these sensitivities.

Jen

From

"ciarnait conall" <sidhetmkennels@y...>

To

<[email protected]>

Sent

Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:39 AM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Out with the Bad Air...

My cousin has Asperger's. Noise and flourescent lights bother her. Plant life is soothing. For a restaurant I would say maybe skylights for lighting, gardens for a view, plants and fountains for decor, high backed booths in a semicircle for seating. Awenydd

tlshell@c... wrote:

On 8 Mar 2004, 16:59 +00:00, Jim Sinclair said:

Lots of people (not just asexual ones) like to meet in restaurants. I, however, am autistic, and restaurants are *not* autistic- friendly places. (I don't doubt there are some autistic people who enjoy going to restaurants. But most autistic people have sensory sensitivities that make it challenging.) Considering that asexuality--or at least being "out* about asexuality--seems to be somewhat more common among autistics than among neurotypicals, could it be possible to create an asexual community that would be easy for asexual autistics to participate in?

I find restaurants challenging because of the noise, but if I am signing then I don't have as much of a problem. I was just thinking restaurant due to the lighting; I hate bars because I am stumbling around in the dark and can't see well enough to converse. Any public place that was well-lit would be fine with me, preferably not too crowded. For example, there's a Chinese "all you can eat" restaurant near where I live and they don't get many customers during the daytime, so it's ideal for me then, but I probably wouldn't like it during dinnertime. The restaurant is rather drab but they serve good chow mein vegetables.

I don't know that much about autism to know what exactly is ideal, but I find trees and green plants are very soothing to the eye, so maybe a place with lots of potted trees and an indoor fountain, potted plants around in strategic locations, would be a good start? Perhaps also a background of muted colors on the walls, such as pastels in natural shades? For this design, windows should look out on small walled gardens rather than city streets. Actually, now that I think about it, sounds rather like a moorish home...shelter from the outside world. One question, are small to medium sized rooms OK, or would large rooms be more appropriate?

---

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I have always moved music. Then again most people don't consider what I listen to music. The harder and faster the better. My all time favorite is Death Metal. I will only mention Cannibal Corpse because they are probably the only band that's been heard of before. The rest of the Death Metal I listen to just gets harder and more extreme from there. My other favorites include thrash (Exodus), grind (Napalm Death), hardcore (Madball), hardcore punk (Bad Religion, Minor Threat & Exploited), and Blues (Buddy Guy, Albert King, and Gary Moore are my favs.)

Ofcourse I also listen to older bands that I consider to be classics like one of my all time favorites Accept. As well as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Rush, and Judas Priest to name a few.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some new extreme death grind I just received from Amazon.com to listen to while brewing espresso.

Oh gosh, I would not want to live without music. I love music. Everything from Gershwin, Jazz, Rock & Roll, to Classical. Right now I am listening to a John Adams piece. It is Harmonium, performed by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, with a chorus.

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HI I just found this group recently, I dont know sometimes if I am truelly asexual, I dont like sex but I like intimacy. I also consider myself gay, I still feel attractions but not sexual. Do many asexuals still feel attractions to others whether same sex or opposite?

Well, those are all meats, so maybe we should patronize vegetarian restaurants? Meat seems to have a male virility thing going with it anyway, much like the Marlboro cowboy theme.

I dunno about male virility, but I'm curious: Are there any other vegetarians or vegans here?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@...

It's not about pairings, per se, it's about the recognition of pairings in the public sphere. Compare a romantic candlelit restaurant to a pub. In the one you have a room divided up into little spheres of light, each of which has two people in it. It's public- people can recognize each other, see who's there with who and gossip about it, but the only "relevant" interaction that happens is between someone and their date. A pub, on the other hand, is a community space. Everyone has a relationship with everyone, and all of them are playing out in the room at the same time. Though some relationships are certianly closer (and people can always huddle in the corner if they have something intimate to discuss) it's not a space that's designed to divide people up in any way. Sitting alone at the bar, sharing a pint with a loved one or dancing on the table- you can form relationships or not however you chose.

Where's the middle ground? Why not have tables of different sizes, for people to sit alone, or in pairs, threesomes, or larger groups--any size group people choose to be in?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@...

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Asexual Lady posted an article:

Company help couples wanting 'sexless marriages' A special matchmaking agency has been set up in China to serve people who want sexless marriages

<snip>

The agency provides services for those who want to get married, but without sex because they have physical or mental problems, reports Crienglish.com quoting The Nanjing Daily.

My asexuality is not a result of any "problem"!

J8

I have read that "Million Dollar Baby" is Clint Eastwood's revenge on the wheelchair crowd.

Well, the "wheelchair crowd" sure ain't happy about it.

I've never seen a Clint Eastwood movie before, and as a wheelchair user and a disability activist, I sure don't plan on seeing any now.

Other than that, I only pay to see SciFi, Fantasy, Mysteries, or Suspense/Spy movies.

I usually watch movies on VHS or DVD. Theaters are too loud, too distracting, and don't give me the opportunity to rewind and re-watch scenes that I don't understand the first time I see them. I think the last movie I saw in a theater was the second Harry Potter movie (if I go to a movie theater it's usually because I'm taking one or more kid[s]). Last week I was visiting my mother and she rented some films, so I got to see the second Harry Potter movie again (because my mom had never seen it), and the third Harry Potter movie (which neither of us had seen before), and Whale Rider.

J8

On 8 Mar 2004, 17:00 +00:00, David Jay said:

Dining room-sized tables to discourage parties of two- either eat with tons of friends or get to meet random strangers over your meal. (Also a diner-style booth for those who'd rather remain solitary.)

Communal dining? How ab-so-lute-ly un-American.

Ever been to a school lunchroom, camp, or retreat center?

Couches in a circle, either for lounging or to serve as a meeting area for different groups (they can be reserved ahead of time)

Now this I could go for, seriously. The only problem would be that people would be trying to squeeze in "one more chair." If we use round benches, then dresses and skirts would have to be banned too. Do asexual women favor pants?

Wy would dresses and skirts have to be banned? What do they have to do with what kind of benches there are?

My idea: We should have a rent-a-dog service for people who are interested in taking a dog for a walk but don't really want to have the bother of taking it home. Walking with a dog is a great device for two people to keep the conversation from getting too intimate.

Who's going to ensure the safety of the dogs?

J8

On 8 Mar 2004, 16:59 +00:00, Jim Sinclair said:

Lots of people (not just asexual ones) like to meet in restaurants. I, however, am autistic, and restaurants are *not* autistic-friendly places. (I don't doubt there are some autistic people who enjoy going to restaurants. But most autistic people have sensory sensitivities that make it challenging.) Considering that asexuality--or at least being "out* about asexuality--seems to be somewhat more common among autistics than among neurotypicals, could it be possible to create an asexual community that would be easy for asexual autistics to participate in?

I find restaurants challenging because of the noise, but if I am signing then I don't have as much of a problem. I was just thinking restaurant due to the lighting; I hate bars because I am stumbling around in the dark and can't see well enough to converse.

Well, there's another point: Neurotypical people tend to associate socializing with eating. For people with major sensory integration problems, eating can be a significant challenge that requires full attention, and is not pleasant (maybe not even possible) in a distracting environment with people trying socialize.

I like the idea of a "community center." It could have a place to eat, but should also have other things people can do together and ways people can meet each other.

I don't know that much about autism to know what exactly is ideal, but I find trees and green plants are very soothing to the eye, so maybe a place with lots of potted trees and an indoor fountain, potted plants around in strategic locations, would be a good start?

A fountain sounds neat. :-)

One question, are small to medium sized rooms OK, or would large rooms be more appropriate?

Small. Too large, too many people, is too easily overwhelming.

At Autreat, the annual retreat run by Autism Network International, we've learned that some people like to eat together in the dining room, even adding more and more chairs to crowd around a table with friends instead of going to an unoccupied table. Others can't handle the large dining room at all, even at a table by themselves, and need to take their trays to eat somewhere quiet. There are picnic tables outside that small groups can use, or people are allowed to take their trays to their rooms to eat alone, as long as they bring their trays and utensils back to the dining room when they're finished. The important thing is to give people choices.

We also set aside space for group activities other than eating: informal discussions in the evenings, and some recreational activities. This year we've arranged for a musical performance by singer/songwriter Connie Deming. It's not uncommon for autistic people to drift in and out of these group activities, or to orbit around the fringes, either preparing to enter the activity, or just because they're enjoying watching and have no wish to come in closer. (Pressure to join in is NOT helpful and is likely to chase the person away.) And spontaneous groups form and re-form as people come together to talk for a while, and then someone drifts out, and someone else drifts in. If a group starts getting large, people tend to start splitting off from it and finding quiet places to continue conversations in pairs and small groups. It's not usually anything "romantic." It's just hard to pay attention to more than one person at a time.

J8

I didn't even know there was such a thing as "asexual" until recently

I knew I wasn't interested in sex from the time I first knew that sex existed: When my parents read me the "where babies come from" book (I was about five), I understood it as an explanation of my past, but it never occurred to me that it had anything to do with my future. My brother, on the other hand, incorporated the information into his expectatons of what would happen when he grew up and got married. Once, when I was about five or six years old, my mother said something to me about "one day when you grow up and get married and have children," and I asked if I *had* to get married. She said no, some people never get married. I thought, "Good, that's what I'm going to do." I never remotely considered being sexual with anyone, despite a great deal of "counseling" during my adolescence and early adulthood, aimed at "reassuring" me that I could have sex.

being nonsexual feels like, well, being neutered in society.

<Ahem> I *am* neuter, physically as well as psychologically. Please don't say "neuter" as if it's a bad thing. Would you like it if I, a neuter, were to say that in a society that traditionally expects men to take the initiative sexually, being nonsesexual feels like being female??

Life wasn't designed for people to live like solitary atoms, they are supposed to economically and emotionally have someone else in their lives for security and long-term stability.

That doesn't have to mean being sexual, though!

J8

Don't believe everything you read or people say. Revenge on the wheelchair crowd for what? It has nothing to do with revenge.

If you don't want to know how the movie ends, then don't read any further. I tired of all this "wheelchair revenge" crap.

Hillary Swank's character becomes paralyzed from the neck down and is bed-ridden for the rest of her life. She tells Clint Eastwood's character to euthanize her, but he refuses. She begins to try and kill herself by biting her tongue off and choking on the blood. That doesn't work and now she has to be drugged constantly to prevent from harming herself more. Clint's character grants her wish in the end. It's about the right to die and nothing else.

On 9 Mar 2005, tlshell@... said:

I have read that "Million Dollar Baby" is Clint Eastwood's revenge on the wheelchair crowd.

Well, the "wheelchair crowd" sure ain't happy about it.

I've never seen a Clint Eastwood movie before, and as a wheelchair user and a disability activist, I sure don't plan on seeing any now.

Other than that, I only pay to see SciFi, Fantasy, Mysteries, or Suspense/Spy movies.

I usually watch movies on VHS or DVD. Theaters are too loud, too distracting, and don't give me the opportunity to rewind and re-watch scenes that I don't understand the first time I see them. I think the last movie I saw in a theater was the second Harry Potter movie (if I go to a movie theater it's usually because I'm taking one or more kid[s]). Last week I was visiting my mother and she rented some films, so I got to see the second Harry Potter movie again (because my mom had never seen it), and the third Harry Potter movie (which neither of us had seen before), and Whale Rider.

J8

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I was just curious, is all. It might be interesting conversation for us all to share how we came to identify ourselves as being asexuals.

I never really thought about it until people started expecting me to be sexual.

I never thought about dating, and no one seemed to expect me to date, since when I was a teenager there was a lot of uncertainty about whether I was female or male. (It turned out I was neither.) Years later, I was absolutely flabbergasted to learn that my father thought I should have dated as a teen anyway, just for the "social experience." To this day I cannot fathom the thought processes involved in that idea. Maybe he thought I was single as an adult because I never "learned" to pair-bond by dating as a teenager? (And of course he would have thought that being pair-bonded was preferable to being single--"everybody" knows that, right?) Whatever he was thinking, I'm just glad he kept it to himself until I was well into adulthood. At the time when I was a teenager, I had no inkling that anybody expected me to be dating, other than a couple of clueless psychologists that I didn't take seriously anyway.

The problem with all the "sexuality counseling" I got was not the sexuality part. That was just boring, but not traumatic or in any way harmful. What was harmful was the implicit assumption that *intimacy* means sexuality. As a result, since I knew I had no interest in ever having a sexual relationship, I figured I'd never have any intimate relationships either. I was therefore completely unprepared when, in my early twenties, I found myself in two intimate relationships within just a few years. The first one was with someone who turned out to be abusive (another thing I hadn't been taught to recognize or deal with), and after initially promising that we could have a loving relationship that didn't need to be sexual, tried to *make* it sexual--and then told me it was my fault for not wanting to have sexual contact voluntarily. If it hadn't been for the second person who was already on the scene while I was in the abusive relationship with the first person, I might never have let anyone touch me again. Fortunately, the second person *was* there, and I learned that there really can be love and intimacy and touching that is not sexual.

From this I learned that I *am* capable of having intimate relationships; and that even if I am in an intimate relationship, I still have no interest in sex. I tried to find other asexual people, not so much to look for a new partner as for validation while recovering from the abuse. In the mid- to late-1980s I couldn't find anything for or about asexual people. I tried to run a newsletter for a while, but most of the people who wrote to me were not asexual, and eventually my interest in it just fizzled. It wasn't until I got involved with other autistic people that I started meeting more asexual people. Before that, I still knew that I was asexual, even when I couldn't find anyone else who was like me.

J8

Jim, I'm with you, I like to see them at home on vhs or cd and I hate theaters too.

Jen

On 9 Mar 2005, tlshell@... said:

I have read that "Million Dollar Baby" is Clint Eastwood's revenge on the wheelchair crowd.

Well, the "wheelchair crowd" sure ain't happy about it.

I've never seen a Clint Eastwood movie before, and as a wheelchair user and a disability activist, I sure don't plan on seeing any now.

Other than that, I only pay to see SciFi, Fantasy, Mysteries, or Suspense/Spy movies.

I usually watch movies on VHS or DVD. Theaters are too loud, too distracting, and don't give me the opportunity to rewind and re-watch scenes that I don't understand the first time I see them. I think the last movie I saw in a theater was the second Harry Potter movie (if I go to a movie theater it's usually because I'm taking one or more kid[s]). Last week I was visiting my mother and she rented some films, so I got to see the second Harry Potter movie again (because my mom had never seen it), and the third Harry Potter movie (which neither of us had seen before), and Whale Rider.

J8

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