Haven for the Human Amoeba

It's obvious that kirtleymd is not Asexual. On'es sex drive being calm when there is no partner has no relationship to asexuality.

I think you're right. I was puzzled when I read that, but jumped right over it anyway. I don't think people are "supposed" to be perpetually horny, that isn't what it means to be sexual. If it were, our species would be in even more trouble sexwise than we already are...and that is already considerable. (-:

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Chris/kirtleymd:

I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along? I am not really sure what you mean by that.

Johnathan:

I saw Sin City this weekend also. Did you like it?

Awenydd

Count me in. I do everything solitarily. I just went to see Sin City by myself. My asexuality goes hand-in-hand with my asociableness. I have no interest in any type of relationship. I'm not the least bit outgoing. I'm rather introverted and borderline misanthropic.

I've been wondering whether the main reason for asexuality is personality disorder? For example, schizoids are known to have a low interest in personal relationships, especially sexual ones. Avoidants have an interest but are too shy to initiate them.

Although I am quite outgoing, I suspect I do have schizoid traits so this is probably why I have no interest in relationships. I prefer casual friendships - e.g. I enjoy socializing in bars but dislike close friends. I hate it when somebody comes round to my house but need to go out nearly every day to be in the community.

Do most of you prefer doing things on your own? Do you have a fantasy world?

By the way, it's though that the cause of schizoid PD is a lack of/inadequate fathering. My dad died when I was five. Does that fit with the rest of you?

Incidentally, whilst I have no desire to have a sexual relationship, when one comes along (accidentally!) I think I perform as well as the next guy (and enjoy it). I just don't go looking for it when I don't have it. How does that square with the rest of you out there?

Chris

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"I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along?"

Answer: ALCOHOL

Awenydd:

I liked it a lot. Thought it was kind of long though. I wasn't familiar with the comic novels it was based on, but I liked how the whole movie was shot to make it look like a live action comic.

I think many other people liked it too. I don't remember seeing so many people at a matinee.

Jon

Chris/kirtleymd:

I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along? I am not really sure what you mean by that.

Johnathan:

I saw Sin City this weekend also. Did you like it?

Awenydd

Jonathan Brennan said:

Count me in. I do everything solitarily. I just went to see Sin City by myself. My asexuality goes hand-in-hand with my asociableness. I have no interest in any type of relationship. I'm not the least bit outgoing. I'm rather introverted and borderline misanthropic.

kirtleymd said:

I've been wondering whether the main reason for asexuality is personality disorder? For example, schizoids are known to have a low interest in personal relationships, especially sexual ones. Avoidants have an interest but are too shy to initiate them.

Although I am quite outgoing, I suspect I do have schizoid traits so this is probably why I have no interest in relationships. I prefer casual friendships - e.g. I enjoy socializing in bars but dislike close friends. I hate it when somebody comes round to my house but need to go out nearly every day to be in the community.

Do most of you prefer doing things on your own? Do you have a fantasy world?

By the way, it's though that the cause of schizoid PD is a lack of/inadequate fathering. My dad died when I was five. Does that fit with the rest of you?

Incidentally, whilst I have no desire to have a sexual relationship, when one comes along (accidentally!) I think I perform as well as the next guy (and enjoy it). I just don't go looking for it when I don't have it. How does that square with the rest of you out there?

Chris

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my opinions:

an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship.

and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual.

just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

"I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along?"

Answer: ALCOHOL

Awenydd:

I liked it a lot. Thought it was kind of long though. I wasn't familiar with the comic novels it was based on, but I liked how the whole movie was shot to make it look like a live action comic.

I think many other people liked it too. I don't remember seeing so many people at a matinee.

Jon

ciarnait conall said:

Chris/kirtleymd:

I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along? I am not really sure what you mean by that.

Johnathan:

I saw Sin City this weekend also. Did you like it?

Awenydd

I was wasn't being serious when I said alcohol is the catalyst for accidental relationships. I was being/am a smart-ass.

my opinions:

an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship.

and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual.

just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

Jonathan Brennan said:

"I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along?"

Answer: ALCOHOL

Awenydd:

I liked it a lot. Thought it was kind of long though. I wasn't familiar with the comic novels it was based on, but I liked how the whole movie was shot to make it look like a live action comic.

I think many other people liked it too. I don't remember seeing so many people at a matinee.

Jon

ciarnait conall said:

Chris/kirtleymd:

I suppose this sounds very niave, but how does a sexual realtionship accidentally come along? I am not really sure what you mean by that.

Johnathan:

I saw Sin City this weekend also. Did you like it?

Awenydd

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i have to admit that i'm a bit of a smart-ass myself. i wasn't judging. sorry if it came across that way. i just wanted to highlight the absurdity of the notion of an "accidental relationship." as if a person could just one day inadvertantly find themselves in a sexual relationship. "it was an accident. see i had a couple of drinks and fell down some stairs. and i knocked someone over and fell on them and the next thing i know..." it's just so ridiculous.

I was wasn't being serious when I said alcohol is the catalyst for accidental relationships. I was being/am a smart-ass.

my opinions: an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship. and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual. just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

I know this has little relevence, but I once had a friend tell me that she had inadvertant sex with her ex. I asked her how one has inadvertant sex, do you just find a penis and fall on it? Sorry, I guess even I can be a wiseass now and then.

i have to admit that i'm a bit of a smart-ass myself. i wasn't judging. sorry if it came across that way. i just wanted to highlight the absurdity of the notion of an "accidental relationship." as if a person could just one day inadvertantly find themselves in a sexual relationship. "it was an accident. see i had a couple of drinks and fell down some stairs. and i knocked someone over and fell on them and the next thing i know..." it's just so ridiculous.

I was wasn't being serious when I said alcohol is the catalyst for accidental relationships. I was being/am a smart-ass.

my opinions: an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship. and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual. just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

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What was her answer? Is it really inadvertant if she intentionally looks for a penis? What kind of sex was it?

Sit 'n' spin?

I know this has little relevence, but I once had a friend tell me that she had inadvertant sex with her ex. I asked her how one has inadvertant sex, do you just find a penis and fall on it? Sorry, I guess even I can be a wiseass now and then.

From

gan_iarr

To

[email protected]

Sent

Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:37 PM

Subject

[Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Accidental Relationships

i have to admit that i'm a bit of a smart-ass myself. i wasn't judging. sorry if it came across that way. i just wanted to highlight the absurdity of the notion of an "accidental relationship." as if a person could just one day inadvertantly find themselves in a sexual relationship. "it was an accident. see i had a couple of drinks and fell down some stairs. and i knocked someone over and fell on them and the next thing i know..." it's just so ridiculous.

Jonathan Brennan said:

I was wasn't being serious when I said alcohol is the catalyst for accidental relationships. I was being/am a smart-ass.

gan_iarr said:

my opinions: an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship. and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual. just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

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That was funny.

Jen

i have to admit that i'm a bit of a smart-ass myself. i wasn't judging. sorry if it came across that way. i just wanted to highlight the absurdity of the notion of an "accidental relationship." as if a person could just one day inadvertantly find themselves in a sexual relationship. "it was an accident. see i had a couple of drinks and fell down some stairs. and i knocked someone over and fell on them and the next thing i know..." it's just so ridiculous.

Jonathan Brennan said:

I was wasn't being serious when I said alcohol is the catalyst for accidental relationships. I was being/am a smart-ass.

gan_iarr said:

my opinions: an "accidental relationship" is a contradiction in terms. especially if it's sexual. if a sexual relationship isn't meaningful, there are probably more things at work than just a lack of sexual drive. and alcohol might be the worst reason there is to become involved in a sexual relationship with someone. i can understand how alcohol may lead to an unintentional sexual encounter, but not to an entire relationship. and although asexual literally means "without sex," asexuality is about more than just an absence of sex. if someone has sex, is comfortable in a sexual relationship, and enjoys sex, they are not asexual. many sexual people have periods in their lives when they are not having sex. being happy and single at the same time isn't the same as being asexual. just my 2 cents, -gan iarr

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OK, thanks, I'll look

Just came here via a link from the AVEN website. This group seems pretty far ranging in personalities. I have considered myself to be what is now called assexual for the past 20+ years. No interest, no lusting, no interest whatsoever. Never bothered me. Happened pretty much around the same time I came to discover I liked being by myself, a loner, not in the bad seedy sense, but I just liked hanging by myself. (Check out the book "Party of One" written within the last five years. So there are several aspects of my life that I have considered normal that actually are "acceptable"now. Pretty cool, huh? I think I'm going to like it here!

Asexuals seek a path to love By Benjamin Harvey

The last date Vanessa Landau, 36, went on was a good one, she said, but it was going nowhere. Like millions of other couples on any given night, she and her date had dinner, talked and laughed, and then went home together.

“He showed me his photography portfolio, I showed him my portfolio,” she said, giggling. “It was just a great time.”

But the relationship wasn't going to be fulfilling for either of them, she said. He was a heterosexual man, and she's an asexual woman.

More and more, asexuals are avoiding the complications, pain and frustration of dating sexual people by seeking out relationships with other asexuals. Asexual groups, like one in Washington that Landau now hosts, and discussion forums are popping up across the country. Many asexuals are just looking to talk. Many others, however, are also looking for romance, and the debate over how to go about that is a heated one.

Asexuals, defined as people who feel no need or desire for sex, are just beginning to develop their own sense of what role they play in a society that is saturated with sex, both as a group seeking rights and recognition and as individuals seeking love, social scientists say.

David Jay, 22, was an asexual freshman in college five years ago when he started the Asexuality Visibility and Education Network (AVEN), a Web log, informational site and discussion board that helps asexuals meet others who feel the same way that they do about intimacy.

"Because the community is so young," Jay said, "questions about romance and relationships and courtship are still things we're struggling with." But "a lot of asexual people are very focused on finding a partner."

While celibates make a choice to refrain from sex, asexuals say they experience no sexual attraction at all. In 2004, psychologist Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Ontario found that of a sample of 18,876 people in Britain, 1.05 percent reported being asexual, agreeing with the statement, "I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone at all." That number was only slightly lower than the percentage of people in the study, 1.11 percent, who reported being homosexual.

Landau, a self-proclaimed victim of childhood sexual abuse, said she had especially struggled with a feeling of being broken or defective, though many social scientists resist the idea that for someone to be asexual, something has to have gone wrong in their past.

"We live in a culture that says you have to want sex all the time," said Michael Kimmel, a gender issues expert and professor of sociology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. "In the past, it was true that people who wanted sex all the time were considered deviant." But now it's the people who don't want sex who feel abnormal.

It is an often-painful issue that lies at the heart of asexual life. "You're sort of told if you're not interested in sex you're repressed," Jay said. "What's implied is that you have to medicate yourself and go through therapy and have sex even if you don't want to."

As a graduate of Wesleyan University, Jay knows what it's like to feel abnormal for not wanting sex. Wesleyan is famously liberal on all issues, including sexual ones. It offered a course on pornography and has a "naked dorm," a coed dormitory where clothing is optional. In 2001, students in a homosexual group took over the administration building and demanded a queer studies academic concentration, which they eventually won.

"I've had people come to my room while I was doing homework and offer to have threesomes like everyone else," Jay said.

With AVEN, though, online visitors are told it's OK not to have sex. Jay said the overriding message is, "If sex isn't fun, find other things in life that are."

For many asexuals, those other things involve intimate, if not physical, connections with other people.

"To me, it seems like people use sex to do things, to communicate things," Jay said. Asexuals find that they can communicate in other ways, and many resent the suggestion that there is some hierarchy of intimacy, with intercourse the crown.

Both Jay and Landau said their fantasies revolved around conversations. "For me," Landau said, "talking is the substitute for sex." And as she described a conversation, Landau spoke of one partner opening up to another, of a sense of euphoria and closeness intensifying, and of a climax of "soulful connectedness."

Sociologist Kimmel is wary, however, of generalizing about asexual fantasies and behavior. Sexual desire, he said, is a continuum, with different people experiencing it at different levels.

But the desire to find a mate, he said, is a very powerful cultural force. "It's pretty hard in our culture to escape the sentiment that everyone must pair up."

Perhaps that suggests the differences between sexual and asexual love may be more superficial than once thought, experts said.

"I've always thought that the phrase, 'just friends,' was kind of strange," Kimmel said, noting that studies show that the romantic relationships that last longest are based on deep friendship, not sexual attraction.

Esther Rothblum, a professor of psychology at the University of Vermont, and author of the book "Boston Marriages: Romantic but Asexual Relationships Among Contemporary Lesbians," said that asexual love and attraction "is often indistinguishable from sexual love and attraction."

"When we see a couple in love, we don't know if they are actually 'doing it' at home," she said.

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No sex please, I'm not into it

Let's talk about sex - or maybe not. For those who identify themselves as asexual, there's nothing quite as dull as the pleasures of the flesh, writes Deborah Smith.

Like many young men, Michael enjoys cricket, parties and reading. But having sex, says the 22-year-old university student, is about as much fun as "watching paint dry".

Social pressure to date girls during his teens meant that he ended up having sexual relationships with half a dozen young women. "But it wasn't very fulfilling," he recalls. And three years ago he realised he did not want to have sex ever again.

Michael, from Launceston, well remembers the first time he put a label to his sexual orientation. Rumours were circulating that he was interested in men, because he had stopped dating girls. "Are you straight or gay?" a female friend asked him at a party. "I said, 'I'm neither. I'm asexual'," he recalls.

To him the term aptly expressed the fact he was not physically attracted to people of either gender.

Now that he's thought longer about it, Michael also likes to describe himself as "biromantic". He is keen to have a romantic relationship with either a man or a woman.

How would it work? There would be no intercourse, but physical closeness, he says. "I'm not particularly into kissing, but I'm hooked on massages ... And the emotional intimacy is what I would see as being ideal."

Michael may not be the rarity most would think. Some surveys of sexual behaviour indicate there could be almost as many people who are asexual as are gay. But in a society where sex is all pervasive, asexual people tend to be invisible.

Kerry, a 21-year-old university student in Sydney who has never kissed nor masturbated, realised she was different in primary school when her girlfriends developed crushes on boys. Not wanting to be the odd one out, she pretended she felt the same way. "Each year on the first day of school I would pick a boy so I could say I liked him and I wouldn't be teased," she recalls.

As her teen years passed with no increase in interest she assumed she must be a "late bloomer". For a brief period, she also thought she might be gay."But then I realised I didn't like girls either. It was a matter of elimination."

Kerry accepted the term "asexual" for herself in the final year of high school. A search of the internet led her to a website called Asexual Visibility and Education Network, or AVEN, which was set up by David Jay, an American in his early 20s who has also never experienced sexual attraction nor had sex.

"It was definitely a relief," says Kerry. "I realised I wasn't alone."

In the first study of asexuality ever published, Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Canada last year analysed the responses of 18,000 people in Britain from a 1994 survey on sexual attraction. He found a "surprisingly high" number - 1 per cent - agreed with the statement "I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone at all". His results were published last year in The Journal of Sex Research and reported in New Scientist magazine.

While homosexual behaviour has been observed in more than 450 species of animals, sheep have provided the best evidence so far for asexuality in the animal kingdom. Three different American teams in the 1990s found that about 10 per cent of rams showed no interest in ewes. Up to 7 per cent tried to mount or sexually interact with other rams. This left 3 per cent of rams that were sexually inactive.

Australian research on people comes up with a similar figure. Dr Juliet Richters, of the University of NSW, says that 6 per cent of people in an Australian survey of almost 20,000 people said they had never had sexual intercourse. Of the declared virgins, about half were under 20 years old, and so likely to have sex later in life.

Richters says the remaining 3 per cent that will never have sex was probably an underestimation, because a further 2 per cent refused to answer the question.

This sexually inactive group could include people from happily celibate nuns to those who are too sick, poor or unattractive to form a relationship, and who do not want to pay for sex or have a casual fling. Others may fear intimacy or have been put off sex by repressive parental attitudes.

But the group is likely to include asexual people who simply don't want any sex, says Richters. "It seems clear to me there is a huge range in how interested people are in sex, from those who hardly have it to those who are biting the wall if they don't get it every day. Most are in the middle."

Professor Marita McCabe, of Deakin University in Victoria, says people have different levels of drive in many facets of life, such as work or sport. "Sex is a drive and falls into the same category. If you're not interested in sex, why should you be?" It isn't a problem unless one partner's lack of interest is causing problems in a relationship, or making people feel bad about themselves, she says.

While AVEN is promoting A-pride, asexuality seems unlikely to become a big movement. "It's not like it's a wild and crazy thing," admits Kerry, a conservatively dressed young woman with a passion for reading who wears her auburn hair in a tight ponytail.

She has a busy life combining uni with weekend work and volunteering at a community radio station and is not desperate for a relationship. "If it happens, it happens." Her hope is society will come to regard asexuality as normal and people will stop telling her she just hasn't found the right man.

Michael, who is tall but a little overweight, says he gets asked out on quite a few dates. If someone makes a pass at him in a bar he "runs the other way", he says. "But if I'm at uni and someone shows signs they want to have sex with me I have a coffee with them and say, 'It's nothing personal, but I'm not interested in that facet of life."'

He wants people to realise that "a lack of physical drive doesn't mean a lack of emotional drive".

Asexuality has slipped under the scientific radar. The pharmaceutical industry has focused on people who want sex, but can't get satisfaction. And studies on the genetics of sexuality have focused on homosexuality.

It was recently suggested, for example, that genes linked to male gayness may have survived because they make the men's female relatives more fertile, after it was found that gay men's sisters, mothers and maternal aunts have more children than usual.

A complete lack of oestrogen in men has been linked, although only in five cases worldwide, to a low libido.

Both Kerry and Michael are not particularly fussed whether it was genes, hormones, societal factors or upbringing that led to their lack of interest in sex. "I'm perfectly happy being who I am," says Kerry.

As for Michael, "It's not boring. I find it much more interesting to do a lot of reading about philosophy and the emotional side of life."

Several young Australians contacted by the Herald via AVEN, however, said they had changed their minds since registering on the website. "Asexuality in my life was a time of transition, albeit an extended one," said one young man. Said another: "I realised it isn't for me. I can't control my urges."

Dr Hera Cook, a historian, says that in a different age, when sex wasn't used to sell everything from cars to washing machines, asexual people would not have felt as out of place. She says there is a lot of evidence the fertility decline in the late 1800s and early 1900s, before effective contraception was available, was due to people not having sex.

A lack of interest in intercourse was not portrayed as a problem for women then. An asexual man could have lived an easy life, with difficulties only arising if his wife wanted children.

"Today we think about more sex as better sex," says Cook, who is affiliated with the University of Sydney. The emphasis during the past 40 years has been on rejecting the sexual repression and prudery that dominated the first half of last century.

But that public system reflected the private beliefs of many. "There was a tremendous amount of support for it."

Cook has spoken to several people who have been in relationships where they have not had sex for up to five or six years. "My experience is people only start to talk about it at the time when their relationship is about to end."

Kerry and Michael have told their friends and family that they are asexual, but both were not ready yet to "come out" publicly and have their surnames used in this article.

Kerry, who has two siblings with a normal interest in sex, informed her parents by leaving an information sheet from the AVEN website in the esky her parents were taking on weekend trip. She says they were concerned she might have been trying to protect herself from relationship disappointments.

Michael believes having a father who is gay was one of the reasons he was open to thinking laterally about his own sexuality. "My parents are OK about it as long as I'm happy." Copyright © 2005. The Sydney Morning Herald. http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/No-sex-please-Im-not-into-it/2005/04/15/1113509924438.html?oneclick=true

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When sex isn't on the menuApril 16, 2005

Some want physical closeness but not intercourse, and they may not be the rarity the rest of the community thinks.

Some people are outing themselves as asexual, preferring to go to bed with a good book than someone else, writes Deborah Smith.

Like many young men, Michael enjoys cricket, parties and reading. But having sex, says the 22-year-old university student, is about as much fun as "watching paint dry".

Pressure to date girls during his teens meant that he ended up having sexual relationships with half a dozen young women.

"But it wasn't very fulfilling," he recalls. And three years ago he realised he did not want to have sex ever again.

Michael, from Tasmania, well remembers the first time he put a label on his sexual orientation. Rumours were circulating that he was interested in men, because he had stopped dating girls.

"Are you straight or gay?" a female friend asked him outright at a party. "I said, 'I'm neither. I'm asexual,"' he recalls.

He was not physically attracted to people of either gender. But now that he's thought about it, Michael also likes to describe himself as "bi-romantic". He is keen to have a romantic relationship with a man or a woman.

How would it work? There would be no intercourse, but physical closeness, he says. "I'm not particularly into kissing, but I'm hooked on massages . . . And the emotional intimacy is what I would see as being ideal."

Michael may not be the rarity most would think.

Some surveys of sexual behaviour indicate there could be almost as many people who are asexual as there are gay. But in a society where sex is all-pervasive, asexual people tend to be invisible.

Kerry, a 21-year-old university student in Sydney who has never kissed nor masturbated, realised she was different in primary school when her girlfriends developed crushes on boys. Not wanting to be the odd one out, she pretended she felt the same way.

"Each year on the first day of school I would pick a boy so I could say I liked him and I wouldn't be teased," she recalls. (Interest in sex ranges) from those who hardly have it to those who are biting the wall if they don't get it every day. As her teen years passed with no increase in interest, she assumed she must be a "late bloomer". For a brief period, she also thought she might be gay.

"But then I realised I didn't like girls either. It was a matter of elimination," she says.

Kerry hit upon the term "asexual" for herself in the final year of high school and a search of the internet led her to a website called Asexual Visibility and Education Network, or AVEN, which was set up by David Jay, an American in his early 20s who has also never experienced sexual attraction nor had sex.

"It was definitely a relief," says Kerry. "I realised I wasn't alone."

In the first study of asexuality published, Anthony Bogaert, of Brock University in Canada, last year analysed the responses of 18,000 British people to a 1994 survey on sexual attraction.

He found a "surprisingly high" number of people - 1 per cent - agreed with the statement: "I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone at all."

His results were published last year in The Journal of Sex Research and reported in New Scientist magazine.

While homosexual behaviour has been observed in more than 450 species, including wallabies and koalas, sheep have provided the best evidence so far of asexuality among animals.

Three different American research teams in the 1990s found that about 10 per cent of rams showed no interest in ewes. Up to 7 per cent tried to mount or sexually interact with other rams. This left about 3 per cent of rams that were sexually inactive.

Australian research on people comes up with a similar figure. Dr Juliet Richters, of the University of NSW, says that 6 per cent of people in a survey of almost 20,000 claimed they had never had sexual intercourse. Of the declared virgins, about half were under 20, and therefore likely to have sex later in life.

Richters says the remaining 3 per cent who will never have sex was probably an underestimation, because a further 2 per cent refused to answer the question. This sexually inactive group could include people from happily celibate nuns to those who are too sick, poor or unattractive to form a relationship, and who do not want to pay for sex or have a casual fling. Others may fear intimacy or have been put off sex by repressive parental attitudes.

But the group is also likely to include asexual people who simply don't want any sex, says Richters. "It seems clear to me there is a huge range in how interested people are in sex, from those who hardly have it to those who are biting the wall if they don't get it every day. Most are in the middle."

Professor Marita McCabe, of Deakin University, says people have different levels of drive in many facets of life, such as work and sport.

"Sex is a drive and falls into the same category," she says. "If you're not interested in sex, why should you be?"

It isn't a problem unless one partner's lack of interest is causing problems in a relationship, or making people feel bad about themselves, she says.

While AVEN is promoting A-pride, asexuality seems unlikely to become a big movement.

"It's not like it's a wild and crazy thing," admits Kerry, a conservatively dressed young woman with a passion for reading who wears her auburn hair pulled tightly back in a ponytail.

She has a busy life combining university with weekend work and volunteering at a community radio station and is not desperate for a relationship.

"If it happens, it happens," she says.

Her hope is that society will come to regard asexuality as normal and people will stop telling her she just hasn't found the right man yet.

Michael, who is tall but admittedly a little overweight, says he gets asked out on quite a few dates. If someone makes a pass at him in a bar he "runs the other way", he says. "But if I'm at uni and someone shows signs they want to have sex with me, I have a coffee with them and say, 'It's nothing personal, but I'm not interested in that facet of life."'

He wants people to realise that "a lack of physical drive doesn't mean a lack of emotional drive".

Asexuality has slipped under the scientific radar. The pharmaceutical industry has focused on people who want sex but can't get satisfaction.

And studies on the genetics of sexuality have been driven by trying to understand the biological enigma of homosexuality.

A complete lack of oestrogen in men has been linked, although only in five cases worldwide, to a low libido.

Both Kerry and Michael are not particularly bothered whether it is genes, societal factors or upbringing that mean they are not interested in sex.

"I'm perfectly happy being who I am," says Kerry.

Michael says: "It's not boring. I find it much more interesting to do a lot of reading about philosophy and the emotional side of life."

However, several young Australians contacted through AVEN said they had changed their minds since registering on the website.

"Asexuality in my life was a time of transition, albeit an extended one," said one young man.

Said another: "I realised it isn't for me. I can't control my urges."

Historian Dr Hera Cook says that in a different age, when sex was not used to sell everything from cars to washing machines, asexual people would not have felt so out of place.

She says there is a lot of evidence that the fertility decline in the late 1800s and early 1900s, before effective contraception was available, was due to people not having sex.

A lack of interest in intercourse was not portrayed as a problem for women then. And an asexual man could have lived an easy life, with difficulties only arising if his wife demanded to have children.

"Today we think about more sex as better sex," says Cook, who is affiliated with the University of Sydney.

The emphasis during the past 40 years has been on rejecting the sexual repression that dominated the first half of last century. But she claims that this public prudery reflected the private beliefs of many.

"There was a tremendous amount of support for it," she says.

Cook says she has spoken to several people who have been in relationships in which they have not had sex for up to five or six years.

"My experience is that people only start to talk about it at the time when their relationship is about to end," she says.

Both Kerry and Michael have told their friends and families that they are asexual, but neither was ready yet to "come out" publicly and have their surnames used in this article.

Kerry, who has two siblings with a normal interest in sex, informed her parents by leaving an information sheet from the AVEN website in the icebox her parents were taking on a trip.

She says they were concerned she might have been trying to protect herself from relationship disappointments.

Michael believes having a father who is gay is one of the reasons he is open to thinking laterally about his own sexuality.

"My parents are OK about it as long as I'm happy," he says.

Copyright © 2005. The Age Company Ltd.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/04/15/1113509923265.html?from=top5&oneclick=true

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test

Just came here via a link from the AVEN website. This group seems pretty far ranging in personalities. I have considered myself to be what is now called assexual for the past 20+ years. No interest, no lusting, no interest whatsoever. Never bothered me. Happened pretty much around the same time I came to discover I liked being by myself, a loner, not in the bad seedy sense, but I just liked hanging by myself. (Check out the book "Party of One" written within the last five years. So there are several aspects of my life that I have considered normal that actually are "acceptable"now. Pretty cool, huh? I think I'm going to like it here!

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Hi,

Anyone here from QC (Canada)?

Feel free to drop me a line!

Take care,

Anne

Sex with Dr Thomas Stuttaford and Suzi Godson I'm a man who's had chronic eczema all his adult life. As a result, I've always avoided sex and, though I'm nearly 40, I'm still a virgin. Recently, my condition has improved but I feel it may be too late for a love life. Can you live a full life without sex?

Dr Thomas Stuttaford is The Times doctor. He says: NI_MPU('middle');Many people have a full and happy life without sexual partners. Photographs of millions of people, paying tribute to the late Pope and celebrating his life, confirm this. Recently, there has been much discussion about people (asexuals) who say they have no feelings of attraction either to those of their own or the opposite sex. They also claim to have a full life and not to feel the absence of sex.

However, it is difficult to assess the significance of your eczema in your reticence to have sex without knowing the extent of the skin lesions, and which parts of the body were affected. It would also be interesting to know what precipitated the eczema. And if either your treatment or your lifestyle changed before the eczema went into remission. Forty is not too late to find a partner and although virginity at your age is now unusual, in stricter and more religious times it wasn’t. Fifty years ago it was common to meet adult men who were virgin at your age. In unmarried women of middle age and older, the majority were virginal. But, for those who began their sex life late, once they had crossed that bridge there was no return and they seemed to relish it. Most doctors of my age remember embarrassed couples consulting them because they were unaware of the basic mechanics of sexual intercourse.It now seems incredible that some people thought that the anus was the reproductive orifice and wondered why they weren’t celebrating a pregnancy. One bemused pair had been doing their best with the umbilicus (belly button). Similarly, about 40 years ago I was called to a recently married pair of Cambridge postgraduate students. They had hired a boat on the Broads for their honeymoon but the marriage was unconsummated because they didn’t know what went where. I had to explain, with the aid of diagrams, the basic facts of life. You have to ask yourself why you have allowed eczema to rule your existence. Eczema can often be absolute hell: the irritation is distressing, embarrassing and unsightly. However, if your libido and the rest of your life were in other ways fulfilling, and you can express your feelings and personality, it shouldn’t have proved an insurmountable obstacle. Many people, both men and women, have co-dependent tendencies, that is to say they seek to be needed and feel fulfilled only when they are. Some women might find your neediness a bonus. Research has shown that disabilities are not necessarily a sexual turn-off. Women, for example, with a congenitally dislocated hip — a condition now rarely seen as it is corrected after birth but one that used to cause considerable disability and an ungainly walk — were statistically more likely to have a boyfriend and to marry than normal women. If you decide not to seek sexual experiences, it would be a good idea to extend your social interests; but you may find that nature will take its course. If not, your life, even if not as full as that of the late Pope, may still be rewarding.

Suzi Godson is a sex writer and columnist. She says:

On a logical basis, it is difficult not to conclude that sex is something best avoided. Those who pass on penetration don’t have to worry about sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancy, infidelity, impotence, premature ejaculation — not to mention who sleeps on the wet patch. They avoid potential rejection and save themselves the cost of dates, mini-breaks, wedding rings, relationship counselling and divorce settlements. In fact, arguably, celibacy has so many advantages that its practitioners ought to be entitled to a life-insurance discount. However, in answer to your question, although a life without sex is feasible and less risky, I’m not sure it could ever be described as “full”. Relationships are invariably a roller-coaster of love, hate, obsession and indifference. But life without the highs and lows of lust and loathing is just a long, flat and predictable path to a final destination. And what about the desire to procreate? As Samuel Johnson said: “Marriage has many pains but celibacy has no pleasures.” So I think it is terrific that you feel ready to join the fray. However, I am worried that the visibility of your skin condition will make forming romantic attachments difficult for you. Given the shortage of Florence Nightingales, finding a partner who understands your condition and is sympathetic during flare-ups might prove both challenging and demoralising.

Fortunately, help is at hand. The National Eczema Society (NES) runs local support groups around the country and they have suggested that you give them a call on 0870 2413604 so they can put you in touch with a branch near your home. These are legitimate gatherings where eczema, dermatitis and sensitive skin sufferers share their experiences (ie, not an opportunity to pull). But getting out and meeting people is the first step to broadening your social horizons, and you are bound to be less self-conscious if you are mixing with people who know what you’ve been through. You might also want to investigate Outsiders, a members-only group that offers isolated people with social and physical disabilities the chance to meet new friends. One of their first success stories was a marriage between a girl with mild learning difficulties and a teacher with chronic eczema. Outsider runs monthly events up and down the country and they also run a Sex and Disability Helpline (0707 4993527; www.outsiders.org.uk). Once you join you will be sent a list of the other 600 members and their contact details. NI_MPU('middle');Unfortunately, because women with disabilities tend to be less assertive and are often more controlled by their parents, the number of female participants is never as high as the number of males. I am mentioning this in the hope that female readers with social or physical disabilities will decide to abandon the long, flat and predictable path and chance a fling on the rollercoaster of love. With you.

OVER TO YOU

Do you have a sexual dilemma for Suzi Godson and Dr Thomas Stuttaford? Send your e-mails to body&soul@... or write to Body&Soul, The Times, 1 Pennington Street, London E98 1TT. The authors regret that, although your letters are much appreciated, they cannot respond personally.

Copyright 2005 Times Newspapers Ltd.

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My name Is Melanie, and I am married. I have been for 4 years. I also have 3 children that I gave birth too. My journey into becoming who I am now has been a painful one. Me personally I have always hated sex,but used it to get what I wanted. I.E. cars, money, trips, affection, love, etc. Well...It didn't really work. It took a very long time to figure it out. I met my husband in the summer of 2000. I was a single mom of a then 10 yr old son. I thought WOW! this guy is the one. WRONG!!! He began our relationship based on lies, cheating, and god knows what else. I became pregnant 4 months into our realtionship. ( I thought it was love ).We moved into together, and ALL this time he knew he didn't love me. He said he did. He began cheating with his ex-girlfriend, and a nieghborhood slut!! She lived 2 doors down. My husband cheated on me during both pregnancies. I became pregnant with out 2nd child just after our 1st child's 1st Bday. Yeah!! Not. But I had another beautiful son. 3 in all. I started losing interest in sex after my last baby, because I knew I wasn't what johnny wanted. I have been diagnosed with severe depression. I lost my desire for everything. Except my kid's. I will be the best mom for them. I just want to be who I am. I'm a normal woman. Attractive to some. Attractive to my husband. But desire for sex? GONE!! We married asexuals are out here. We have a very hard time, but were here. Melanie.

So are you still married? Planning on staying married?

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I'd have no problems with a partner who wanted to fool around as long as it wasn't behind my back. In other words, as long as they're 100% honest and upfront, I don't care.

The way I look at it is simple: I don't like to cook, but I do like to eat. If my partner doesn't like cooking either, I'll order a pizza. I don't see sex as being any different, if I'm not filling my partner's needs, outsource.

My name Is Melanie, and I am married. I have been for 4 years. I also have 3 children that I gave birth too. My journey into becoming who I am now has been a painful one. Me personally I have always hated sex,but used it to get what I wanted. I.E. cars, money, trips, affection, love, etc. Well...It didn't really work. It took a very long time to figure it out. I met my husband in the summer of 2000. I was a single mom of a then 10 yr old son. I thought WOW! this guy is the one. WRONG!!! He began our relationship based on lies, cheating, and god knows what else. I became pregnant 4 months into our realtionship. ( I thought it was love ).We moved into together, and ALL this time he knew he didn't love me. He said he did. He began cheating with his ex-girlfriend, and a nieghborhood slut!! She lived 2 doors down. My husband cheated on me during both pregnancies. I became pregnant with out 2nd child just after our 1st child's 1st Bday. Yeah!! Not. But I had another beautiful son. 3 in all. I started losing interest in sex after my last baby, because I knew I wasn't what johnny wanted. I have been diagnosed with severe depression. I lost my desire for everything. Except my kid's. I will be the best mom for them. I just want to be who I am. I'm a normal woman. Attractive to some. Attractive to my husband. But desire for sex? GONE!! We married asexuals are out here. We have a very hard time, but were here. Melanie.

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My name Is Melanie, and I am married. I have been for 4 years. I also have 3 children that I gave birth too. My journey into becoming who I am now has been a painful one. Me personally I have always hated sex,but used it to get what I wanted. I.E. cars, money, trips, affection, love, etc. Well...It didn't really work. It took a very long time to figure it out. I met my husband in the summer of 2000. I was a single mom of a then 10 yr old son. I thought WOW! this guy is the one. WRONG!!! He began our relationship based on lies, cheating, and god knows what else. I became pregnant 4 months into our realtionship. ( I thought it was love ).We moved into together, and ALL this time he knew he didn't love me. He said he did. He began cheating with his ex-girlfriend, and a nieghborhood slut!! She lived 2 doors down. My husband cheated on me during both pregnancies. I became pregnant with out 2nd child just after our 1st child's 1st Bday. Yeah!! Not. But I had another beautiful son. 3 in all. I started losing interest in sex after my last baby, because I knew I wasn't what johnny wanted. I have been diagnosed with severe depression. I lost my desire for everything. Except my kid's. I will be the best mom for them. I just want to be who I am. I'm a normal woman. Attractive to some. Attractive to my husband. But desire for sex? GONE!! We married asexuals are out here. We have a very hard time, but were here. Melanie.

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WHO R U ?

First off, hit your capslock key and learn to capitalize properly. Secondly, I believe the words you were looking for are "are" and "you"

WHY U SEND ME THIS ?

Well, you subscribed to a mailing list. She posted to the list, so you got a copy of the email. This isn't rocket science.

On 4/27/2005 5:35:47 AM, [email protected] wrote:

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WHY U SEND ME THIS ?

ANSWER ME!

Cool it. She's a member, she posted, you're a member, you received her post. Satisfied?

Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...

Why am I getting all these emails?

Just kidding!

On 4/27/2005 5:35:47 AM, [email protected] wrote:

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WHY U SEND ME THIS ?

ANSWER ME!

Cool it. She's a member, she posted, you're a member, you received her post. Satisfied?

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So are you still married? Planning on staying married?

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I'd have no problems with a partner who wanted to fool around as long as it wasn't behind my back. In other words, as long as they're 100% honest and upfront, I don't care.

This might work in a relationship which was otherwise loving.

Cheating and lying, however, can be a symptom of distrust and emotional immaturity. And these things can pervade a marriage, undermining its foundation.

Staying in an unloving and emotionally abusive relationship is something I would not expect anyone to do. I would think it a very hard burden to carry.

Dave said:

So are you still married? Planning on staying married?

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I'd have no problems with a partner who wanted to fool around as long as it wasn't behind my back. In other words, as long as they're 100% honest and upfront, I don't care.

This might work in a relationship which was otherwise loving.

Cheating and lying, however, can be a symptom of distrust and emotional immaturity. And these things can pervade a marriage, undermining its foundation.

Staying in an unloving and emotionally abusive relationship is something I would not expect anyone to do. I would think it a very hard burden to carry.

Agreed, if the marriage is already on shake ground, an open marriage probably won't work. However, if the only root problem is the sexual inequality, I don't really see the problem with the partner who is interested in sex being allowed to have sex (or rather, I don't feel the partner who isn't interested in sex is in a position to feel jealous or upset)