Haven for the Human Amoeba

Now THERE'S an event I'd love to attend! Perhaps there's someone either here or over at AVEN who's up to the task.

Urgh, what am I about to get myself into....?

OK, I have experience organizing grassroots low-budget peer gatherings. (See www.ani.ac/autreat.html for information about Autreat, which I've been organizing since 1996, and www.autscape.org for information about Autscape, which was held and run in the UK but for which I served as an adviser and consultant.) I'm up to the task, IF:

a) At least 10 people are definitely sure they would attend.

b) I can have a team of at least two or three other people to share the workload.

c) It can be held somewhere that I can get to by vehicle (I can't afford to fly).

d) The timing doesn't conflict with Autreat.

How many people would definitely attend, and are there any volunteers for the planning committee?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Hmm, This is something I've always wanted although it's a little scarry cuz it's always been online without true possibilities. LOL

Jim what area or state are you considering?

Jen

On 31 Jan 2006, kweenkmatt@... said:

Now THERE'S an event I'd love to attend! Perhaps there's someone either here or over at AVEN who's up to the task.

Urgh, what am I about to get myself into....?

OK, I have experience organizing grassroots low-budget peer gatherings. (See www.ani.ac/autreat.html for information about Autreat, which I've been organizing since 1996, and www.autscape.org for information about Autscape, which was held and run in the UK but for which I served as an adviser and consultant.) I'm up to the task, IF:

a) At least 10 people are definitely sure they would attend.

b) I can have a team of at least two or three other people to share the workload.

c) It can be held somewhere that I can get to by vehicle (I can't afford to fly).

d) The timing doesn't conflict with Autreat.

How many people would definitely attend, and are there any volunteers for the planning committee?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hmm, This is something I've always wanted although it's a little scarry cuz it's always been online without true possibilities. LOL

Well Jen, you are someone I think I would enjoy meeting, so I really hope you would come! (If not to an asexual con, would you consider coming to Autreat?)

Jim what area or state are you considering?

Well, I live in Syracuse New York, so unfortunately California would be way out of driving distance for me. I have family in metro Detroit, so could potentially drive to Detroit and drop off cats for my mother to take care of, then come to a gathering within driving distance of Detroit.

A couple of years ago when we were looking for a new venue for Autreat, I checked out a college campus in southern Ontario (nearest airports would be either Toronto or Buffalo, and it's also accessible by train) that we couldn't use for Autreat because we need child care facilities, but it would have been great for a gathering of adults. If that area would be acceptable, I could call that college and ask about their current rates and dates available.

Campuses, by the way, have a lot going for them as gathering sites. They're usually considerably cheaper than hotel rooms, and they offer a place to have daytime activities and overnight lodging all on-site, without having to commute back and forth. You can stay up late at night, talking and socializing, then when you get tired just walk down the hall to your room. If you want to take a break (or a nap) in the middle of the day, you can go do that, and then come rejoin the group when you're ready, again without a commute.

An alternative I *don't* recommend is a daytime conference center, with people staying off-site at hotels overnight. That would cost a lot more, require transportation arrangements between the conference center and whatever hotels people stay at, and break up the time to hang out together.

Some hotels have both lodging and conference rooms available (as well as, usually, restaurants), offering similar benefits to a college campus, and even more luxuries (usually nicer rooms, housekeeping service, etc.), but, again, those usually cost way more. If it ends up being a small group, some of the more modest hotel chains (like Red Roof or Econo Lodge) might have conference rooms we could rent. I could do some cost comparisons between campuses and lower-budget motels.

If we want to make it really low-budget, and are willing to rough it, we could look for a campground where we could pitch tents. Same benefits of having a self-contained space, but with less comforts, trading off for lower cost.

What do people think? Who's in? Thoughts about location or type of venue? Volunteers for planning committee?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

I would attend if it was within a day's drive of where I live. (NY metro area)

I think "Amoeba-Con" might be a fitting name for the event.

I don't know what kind of planning goes into these kinds of events. If there was something that I felt able to do, I would help out.

~Katie.

-----Original Message-----

a) At least 10 people are definitely sure they would attend.

b) I can have a team of at least two or three other people to share the workload.

c) It can be held somewhere that I can get to by vehicle (I can't afford to fly).

d) The timing doesn't conflict with Autreat.

How many people would definitely attend, and are there any volunteers for the planning committee?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel. If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun. Also affordable, too. I camp with a medieval re-enactment group quite a bit, so we are used to camping with bare-bones amenities. (a hose with running water is a luxury item)

~Katie.

-----Original Message-----

What do people think? Who's in? Thoughts about location or type of venue? Volunteers for planning committee?

I would attend if it was within a day's drive of where I live. (NY metro area)

How many hours are in a day's drive for you? :-) Would Buffalo or southeast Ontario work?

And is taking a train an option for you, if there's one that goes to the venue city? Oh, I just saw your other post about having a dog. Maybe not. How big a dog? (I have dogs *and* cats, which is why I need to drive, and possibly sleep in my van.)

I think "Amoeba-Con" might be a fitting name for the event.

Might be, but can someone please explain to me what amoebas have to do with it? I know amoebas *reproduce* asexually, but we aren't talking about reproducing by splitting ourselves in half, are we?? And I sure hope my relationships are more interesting than any an amoeba would be capable of having.

I don't know what kind of planning goes into these kinds of events. If there was something that I felt able to do, I would help out.

There's about a gazillion different things to do, most of them not too hard in and of themselves, just too much for one person to keep track of them all.

Are you able to:

Read and reply to planning-related emails within 24 hours (barring emergencies, of course);

Work cooperatively with others to get a job done (as opposed to people who impede progress by either not doing their part, or trying to control everyone else's part, or insisting that everything be done their way, or engaging in personal squabbles with other committee members);

Do web research, phone and/or email businesses to gather information about products/services and prices, and relay the information to other planners in a timely manner;

Keep track of which decisions have already been finalized, and convey only accurate information to prospective attendees;

Design web sites and/or flyers, and/or send email publicity to as many places as possible where asexual people are likely to see it;

Arrive at the venue early, get oriented to it yourself, and then help orient other people as they arrive;

Help prepare and collate any printed materials we end up using (could be anything from a simple map of the facility to a whole program book);

Help pack and unpack any equipment or materials that need to be brought (I would probably bring them in my van, unless someone else has access to better deals than I do--my Autreat contacts include some useful people to know, such as a discount print shop);

Deal calmly and appropriately with any "crises" that may occur during the event;

Be flexible and willing to do or assist with other tasks that are sure to come up if we move forward with this?

Do you have any skills or experience that you think would be helpful? What do you do in your off-line life?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel.

One of my four-legged kids is 14 years old, quadriplegic, and incontinent. If he's still alive by the time we do this con, I won't be *able* to leave him at a kennel. I'll need to bring him with me. But he's a retired service dog, so lots of places are open to letting him in, especially when they see how I manage the incontinence so it won't mess up their facility.

If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun.

Might be hard for me, though. I use a wheelchair, so it would have to be a wheelchair-accessible campground. And I'm neither male nor female, so bathroom facilities might be an issue. But I can see what I can find. Maybe a place with cabins?

Anyone else have preferences for indoor vs. outdoor facilities?

Might also help to think about what we'd want to *do* once we get together. A program of discussions focused on different aspects of asexualtiy? Would require a reasonably quiet, comfortable meeting space, shelter in case of bad weather, and if it turns out ot be a large group, possibly a sound system. Meeting up in one place and then going sightseeing and touring? Would require just sleeping facilities, but proximity and transportation to some location where people are interested in touring. Sharing some recreational activities together? We'd need to identify activities that people are interested in, to determine what kind of facilities they would need. Watching videos? Would require equipment and electricity. Etc. So, what do people want to do at this event?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Just a few suggestions, if I may. Instead of Amoeba-Con, why not A-Con? And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea. I'm not big on camping, as I've jokingly told people in the past, my idea of roughing it is being too far away from the ice machine.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

So for what it's worth, my vote is for somewhere in Michigan.

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel.

One of my four-legged kids is 14 years old, quadriplegic, and incontinent. If he's still alive by the time we do this con, I won't be *able* to leave him at a kennel. I'll need to bring him with me. But he's a retired service dog, so lots of places are open to letting him in, especially when they see how I manage the incontinence so it won't mess up their facility.

If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun.

Might be hard for me, though. I use a wheelchair, so it would have to be a wheelchair-accessible campground. And I'm neither male nor female, so bathroom facilities might be an issue. But I can see what I can find. Maybe a place with cabins?

Anyone else have preferences for indoor vs. outdoor facilities?

Might also help to think about what we'd want to *do* once we get together. A program of discussions focused on different aspects of asexualtiy? Would require a reasonably quiet, comfortable meeting space, shelter in case of bad weather, and if it turns out ot be a large group, possibly a sound system. Meeting up in one place and then going sightseeing and touring? Would require just sleeping facilities, but proximity and transportation to some location where people are interested in touring. Sharing some recreational activities together? We'd need to identify activities that people are interested in, to determine what kind of facilities they would need. Watching videos? Would require equipment and electricity. Etc. So, what do people want to do at this event?

Jim Sinclair [email protected] www.jimsinclair.org

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hey who stated that the haven was ever just for Americans, or is it? Coz I would love to attend the gathering too but I live in Australia!!!

now what am I getting myself into? I may be able to attend, all depends on the timing. Im buying a house and may be changing jobs in the near future, so anything before late summer would be out.....plus the best friend is getting hitched in october....so its basically just shimmying a trip in between that. how long would this be anyways? a weekend...3 days? TTFN Renee'

Now THERE'S an event I'd love to attend! Perhaps there's someone either here or over at AVEN who's up to the task.

Urgh, what am I about to get myself into....?

OK, I have experience organizing grassroots low-budget peer gatherings. (See www.ani.ac/autreat.html for information about Autreat, which I've been organizing since 1996, and www.autscape.org for information about Autscape, which was held and run in the UK but for which I served as an adviser and consultant.) I'm up to the task, IF:

a) At least 10 people are definitely sure they would attend.

b) I can have a team of at least two or three other people to share the workload.

c) It can be held somewhere that I can get to by vehicle (I can't afford to fly).

d) The timing doesn't conflict with Autreat.

How many people would definitely attend, and are there any volunteers for the planning committee?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

SPONSORED LINKS Abstinence Romance relationship

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "havenforthehumanamoeba" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

We've had some discussion about this over on AVEN, but we've been trying to focus more on local meetups. (The idea being that if we can establish a local group somewhere they can serve as a ground team to set up some sort of a national meetup.) National meetups have happened in Germany and the UK that have been pretty successful though. If it looks like there's gonna be an Amoeba meetup make sure that you announce it to the AVENites...

David Jay

Just a few suggestions, if I may. Instead of Amoeba-Con, why not A-Con? And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea. I'm not big on camping, as I've jokingly told people in the past, my idea of roughing it is being too far away from the ice machine.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

So for what it's worth, my vote is for somewhere in Michigan.

From

Jim Sinclair

To

[email protected]

Sent

Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:05 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Asexual-Con

On 31 Jan 2006, kweenkmatt@... said:

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel.

One of my four-legged kids is 14 years old, quadriplegic, and incontinent. If he's still alive by the time we do this con, I won't be *able* to leave him at a kennel. I'll need to bring him with me. But he's a retired service dog, so lots of places are open to letting him in, especially when they see how I manage the incontinence so it won't mess up their facility.

If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun.

Might be hard for me, though. I use a wheelchair, so it would have to be a wheelchair-accessible campground. And I'm neither male nor female, so bathroom facilities might be an issue. But I can see what I can find. Maybe a place with cabins?

Anyone else have preferences for indoor vs. outdoor facilities?

Might also help to think about what we'd want to *do* once we get together. A program of discussions focused on different aspects of asexualtiy? Would require a reasonably quiet, comfortable meeting space, shelter in case of bad weather, and if it turns out ot be a large group, possibly a sound system. Meeting up in one place and then going sightseeing and touring? Would require just sleeping facilities, but proximity and transportation to some location where people are interested in touring. Sharing some recreational activities together? We'd need to identify activities that people are interested in, to determine what kind of facilities they would need. Watching videos? Would require equipment and electricity. Etc. So, what do people want to do at this event?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

SPONSORED LINKS Abstinence Romance relationship

---

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "havenforthehumanamoeba" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

How many members are active in each area? It might be a good idea to poll active members in different parts of the county. Is there a way to track this?

We've had some discussion about this over on AVEN, but we've been trying to focus more on local meetups. (The idea being that if we can establish a local group somewhere they can serve as a ground team to set up some sort of a national meetup.) National meetups have happened in Germany and the UK that have been pretty successful though. If it looks like there's gonna be an Amoeba meetup make sure that you announce it to the AVENites...

David Jay

Just a few suggestions, if I may. Instead of Amoeba-Con, why not A-Con? And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea. I'm not big on camping, as I've jokingly told people in the past, my idea of roughing it is being too far away from the ice machine.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

So for what it's worth, my vote is for somewhere in Michigan.

From

Jim Sinclair

To

[email protected]

Sent

Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:05 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Asexual-Con

On 31 Jan 2006, kweenkmatt@... said:

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel.

One of my four-legged kids is 14 years old, quadriplegic, and incontinent. If he's still alive by the time we do this con, I won't be *able* to leave him at a kennel. I'll need to bring him with me. But he's a retired service dog, so lots of places are open to letting him in, especially when they see how I manage the incontinence so it won't mess up their facility.

If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun.

Might be hard for me, though. I use a wheelchair, so it would have to be a wheelchair-accessible campground. And I'm neither male nor female, so bathroom facilities might be an issue. But I can see what I can find. Maybe a place with cabins?

Anyone else have preferences for indoor vs. outdoor facilities?

Might also help to think about what we'd want to *do* once we get together. A program of discussions focused on different aspects of asexualtiy? Would require a reasonably quiet, comfortable meeting space, shelter in case of bad weather, and if it turns out ot be a large group, possibly a sound system. Meeting up in one place and then going sightseeing and touring? Would require just sleeping facilities, but proximity and transportation to some location where people are interested in touring. Sharing some recreational activities together? We'd need to identify activities that people are interested in, to determine what kind of facilities they would need. Watching videos? Would require equipment and electricity. Etc. So, what do people want to do at this event?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

SPONSORED LINKS Abstinence Romance relationship

---

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "havenforthehumanamoeba" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

SPONSORED LINKS Abstinence Romance relationship

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "havenforthehumanamoeba" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Because that would be Kansas.

Realistically, no matter where it is, it's going to be too far for some people to drive there, even if everyone comes from the US. (And who's to say people *won't* come from any other country?) For a national or international event to be accessible to the largest possible number of people, the important factor is not central location (which would merely maximize the distance for the largest number of people), but proximity to a major airport that receives direct flights from the largest possible number of cities. An airport that is a hub of one or more airlines would make for lower fares for people flying on that airline.

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea.

Maybe. Venues in Ohio might also tend to be less expensive than venues in Michigan. My mother has an annual reunion with some of her old school friends, and they always pick somewhere in Ohio to meet. I'll ask her how they find places.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

Great, what skills do you have? Telephone, web research, publicity, etc.?

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

What town do you live in?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Great, what skills do you have? Telephone, web research, publicity, etc.?

Marketing, Telecommunications and Project Management. Which means I can tackle just about anything handed to me.

What town do you live in?

Ashland, Wisconsin. Though I don't drive, getting to Michigan, Ohio or Kansas would be doable.

And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Because that would be Kansas.

Realistically, no matter where it is, it's going to be too far for some people to drive there, even if everyone comes from the US. (And who's to say people *won't* come from any other country?) For a national or international event to be accessible to the largest possible number of people, the important factor is not central location (which would merely maximize the distance for the largest number of people), but proximity to a major airport that receives direct flights from the largest possible number of cities. An airport that is a hub of one or more airlines would make for lower fares for people flying on that airline.

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea.

Maybe. Venues in Ohio might also tend to be less expensive than venues in Michigan. My mother has an annual reunion with some of her old school friends, and they always pick somewhere in Ohio to meet. I'll ask her how they find places.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

Great, what skills do you have? Telephone, web research, publicity, etc.?

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

What town do you live in?

Jim Sinclair [email protected] www.jimsinclair.org

SPONSORED LINKS Abstinence Romance relationship

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "havenforthehumanamoeba" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

I may be able to attend, all depends on the timing. Im buying a house and may be changing jobs in the near future, so anything before late summer would be out.....plus the best friend is getting hitched in october....so its basically just shimmying a trip in between that. how long would this be anyways? a weekend...3 days?

How about 3 days, the week of July 4? That's an easy time for most people to get off work. We could start either Sunday or Monday, depending on venue costs. (Some places charge a lot more for weekends than for weekdays, so there would be a financial advantage to starting on Monday.)

But, again, what would we *do* there? What kind of structure would the event have? I can think of a couple of rough possibilities:

1) Borrowing heavily from the "conference" events I've worked on before: A program of group discussions in the mornings, on topics (chosen in advance based on polling participants) relevant to asexuality; a program of pre-planned recreational activities after lunch (like what? what do you guys do for fun?); no pre-programmed activities in the evenings, but a bulletin board where anyone can post a note saying, "I'm interested in X activity, anyone who's also interested please join me," and people can link up for activities, or hang out for conversations, just spontaneously.

2) Recreational activities all day long (what activities??); asexuality discussion sessions in the evenings.

3) No predetermined agenda at all, just gather together in the same place and hope it turns out to be fun.

I'd be comfortable with either 1 or 2, or some other variation that would allow me to know, before I go, what I can expect to experience there. #3 is just too vague for me.

We could also have an exhibit area, if anyone is interested in making displays with information and/or art about asexuality and asexual people.

Anybody else have any ideas? If you had three days to spend with other asexual people, what would you want to do with them?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

hey who stated that the haven was ever just for Americans, or is it? Coz I would love to attend the gathering too but I live in Australia!!!

It isn't just for Americans, just that *I* can't organize one in Australia. If we have one here and you can make it, you'd be welcome to come! (We've had people from Canada, Australia, Japan, Israel, Germany, Norway, and I don't know where all else come to autism conference I've organized, so I know it's not unheard-of for people to come from overseas for a 3-day event they're really interested in.) And if someone in Australia wants to organize one there, that would be great too. It just isn't something I'm able to do from here.

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Great, what skills do you have? Telephone, web research, publicity, etc.?

Marketing, Telecommunications and Project Management. Which means I can tackle just about anything handed to me.

Wonderful!!!! :-)

What town do you live in?

Ashland, Wisconsin. Though I don't drive, getting to Michigan, Ohio or Kansas would be doable.

Well, just for the sake of getting some numbers to compare, I used mapquest and found out it's 852.51 miles from Ashland Wisconsin to Wichita Kansas. From Ashland to Hamilton Ontario is 782.26 miles, so that would be closer. Ashland to Buffalo New York is 850.10 miles, still closer than Wichita. And those places are all closer to larger airports than any in Kansas.

If you don't drive, how would you get there? By plane, train, bus, or what? What parameters determine whether or not you could get to a place?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

This has led me to the asexual community, I have the sexual desire, I just choose to be with me. It is less complicated and lotz more SATISFYING!!!

It sounds to like you're not asexual, you're autosexual (see http://www.answers.com/topic/autosexuality).

If masturbating is considered "evil", then I guess I am going to hell.

I don't consider it evil. I consider it a natural expression of sexuality, for people who have sexuality to express. I am comfortable counseling clients who have social skills deficits, about the fact that masturbation is an acceptable but private activity, and teaching them how to determine where it is and is not OK to masturbate. I am able to talk with clients about their masturbatory activities, or lecture to university students about sexual development of children, or reassure parents about how to teach their children an appropriate concept of privacy, without being embarrassed about the subject, primarily because it is essentially an abstract concept without personal significance for me.

But when it comes to peers--people who are not clients--discussing their masturbation with me (either individually, or in a peer forum like this where I am a participant), I find that it does make me uncomfortable. I do not understand why it is important for me to be hearing about peers' masturbation behavior. I especially expect an asexuality forum to be a place where people are not going to be talking to me about sexual activities. And masturbation as a sexual activity can be either completely private, or it can be a sexual activity that involves another person (people masturbating each other or watching each other masturbate). If it involves another person, then it's a sexual encounter, so why is it being discussed in an asexuality forum? And if it's a completely private activity, then it's none of anyone else's business, so, again, why is it being discussed here? I do not care what you do with your own body when you're in your own private space! I don't think it's evil, I just don't think it's any of my concern.

It seems to me that asking people about their sexual activities (including masturbation), or telling people about yours (including masturbation), is not really consistent with this being a "haven" for asexuality.

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Hey, maybe I am autosexual, I guess I never recieved the rule book for this "haven" for "ASEXUALS". You must have the written rules on what can be discussed & what cannot be, huh? I was just giving my input in regards to something I had read. Also, last time I checked, masturbation does not include another person If it did, I would not consider myself asexual. Sexual orientation of humans should be a private thing. But having forums like this makes it very public & I believe you should not be uncomfortable with what is being written.

This has led me to the asexual community, I have the sexual desire, I just choose to be with me. It is less complicated and lotz more SATISFYING!!!

It sounds to like you're not asexual, you're autosexual (see http://www.answers.com/topic/autosexuality).

If masturbating is considered "evil", then I guess I am going to hell.

I don't consider it evil. I consider it a natural expression of sexuality, for people who have sexuality to express. I am comfortable counseling clients who have social skills deficits, about the fact that masturbation is an acceptable but private activity, and teaching them how to determine where it is and is not OK to masturbate. I am able to talk with clients about their masturbatory activities, or lecture to university students about sexual development of children, or reassure parents about how to teach their children an appropriate concept of privacy, without being embarrassed about the subject, primarily because it is essentially an abstract concept without personal significance for me.

But when it comes to peers--people who are not clients--discussing their masturbation with me (either individually, or in a peer forum like this where I am a participant), I find that it does make me uncomfortable. I do not understand why it is important for me to be hearing about peers' masturbation behavior. I especially expect an asexuality forum to be a place where people are not going to be talking to me about sexual activities. And masturbation as a sexual activity can be either completely private, or it can be a sexual activity that involves another person (people masturbating each other or watching each other masturbate). If it involves another person, then it's a sexual encounter, so why is it being discussed in an asexuality forum? And if it's a completely private activity, then it's none of anyone else's business, so, again, why is it being discussed here? I do not care what you do with your own body when you're in your own private space! I don't think it's evil, I just don't think it's any of my concern.

It seems to me that asking people about their sexual activities (including masturbation), or telling people about yours (including masturbation), is not really consistent with this being a "haven" for asexuality.

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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clients--discussing their masturbation with me (either individually, or in a peer forum like this where I am a participant), I find that it does make me uncomfortable. I do not understand why it is important for me to be hearing about peers' masturbation behavior. I especially expect an

Then you are free not to talk about it :)

labels such as 'public' or 'private' exist in order to facilitate communication, not to prohibit or prevent someone to talk about something he doesn't mind about talking. After all the question wanted only affirmative or negative answers, not 'hows' or details, and was of course, 'optional'

My diary (if I kept one) would be private but it's my topic whether, where, when and with what kind of people i feel right talking about its contents. Some persons feel right talking about such things with their buds or mates, or with anonymous people (such as we are) they don't know and aren't ever going to meet

I understand and respect the fact that perhaps for some reasons, like moral, religious or whatever, such topics offend you or others. I also respect your position, education and job and I understand that what I say sounds maybe complete nonsense to you (my IQ is below average)

asexuality forum to be a place where people are not going to be talking to me about sexual activities. And masturbation as a sexual activity can be either completely

asexuality is a vague and misunderstood term. Asexuality can be either the lack of libido where of course masturbation (I think) doesn't have a place, or asexuality can be only the lack of attraction towards men or women, but perhaps likes the emotions and effects of orgasm, in which case masturbation is maybe explainable.

Maybe one definition is right and the other is wrong? maybe both are right and are just two sides of the same coin? maybe we have a misunderstanding of terms? This discussion will help clearing it up

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The best that we can go off of is the "location" section in people's profiles. I've made that searchable but we haven't done a poll.

-DJ

How many members are active in each area? It might be a good idea to poll active members in different parts of the county. Is there a way to track this?

David Jay said:

We've had some discussion about this over on AVEN, but we've been trying to focus more on local meetups. (The idea being that if we can establish a local group somewhere they can serve as a ground team to set up some sort of a national meetup.) National meetups have happened in Germany and the UK that have been pretty successful though. If it looks like there's gonna be an Amoeba meetup make sure that you announce it to the AVENites...

David Jay

Just a few suggestions, if I may. Instead of Amoeba-Con, why not A-Con? And if there are people from both coasts, why not meet somewhere central to both?

Jim, you mentioned Detroit. Some place outside of the motor city in Michigan might not be a bad idea. I'm not big on camping, as I've jokingly told people in the past, my idea of roughing it is being too far away from the ice machine.

But seriously, I like the idea of a group meeting and if there is anything I can do to facilitate the effort, please let me know.

I live in a small college town on Lake Superior, that relies heavily on tourism of all kind. I'm not suggesting that you hold it here by any means, even if there are a number of camp grounds and a national forest ( no room service, no ice machines ) close at hand.

So for what it's worth, my vote is for somewhere in Michigan.

From

Jim Sinclair

To

[email protected]

Sent

Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:05 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Asexual-Con

On 31 Jan 2006, kweenkmatt@... said:

Jim,

I liked your idea of a camping experience. My kid has 4 legs and a tail (woof, woof) and I can't bear to leave him at a kennel.

One of my four-legged kids is 14 years old, quadriplegic, and incontinent. If he's still alive by the time we do this con, I won't be *able* to leave him at a kennel. I'll need to bring him with me. But he's a retired service dog, so lots of places are open to letting him in, especially when they see how I manage the incontinence so it won't mess up their facility.

If there was a dog-friendly campground, that might be something fun.

Might be hard for me, though. I use a wheelchair, so it would have to be a wheelchair-accessible campground. And I'm neither male nor female, so bathroom facilities might be an issue. But I can see what I can find. Maybe a place with cabins?

Anyone else have preferences for indoor vs. outdoor facilities?

Might also help to think about what we'd want to *do* once we get together. A program of discussions focused on different aspects of asexualtiy? Would require a reasonably quiet, comfortable meeting space, shelter in case of bad weather, and if it turns out ot be a large group, possibly a sound system. Meeting up in one place and then going sightseeing and touring? Would require just sleeping facilities, but proximity and transportation to some location where people are interested in touring. Sharing some recreational activities together? We'd need to identify activities that people are interested in, to determine what kind of facilities they would need. Watching videos? Would require equipment and electricity. Etc. So, what do people want to do at this event?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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I am not sure if this list is the right place for me. I am not into physical stimulation. I would much rather have mentally erotic stimulation, erotic teasing, mind-fucking more or less.. but nothing physical.

I feel that if I could find someone, male or female who is into being mentally stimulated, non-physical stimulation, mental or psychological eroticism then, that would be a start.

Actual physical sex is not what I seek. I would like to stay clear of it. Is there anyone else here that feels this way.

Am I in the right place wanting what I want. If not, maybe someone can tell me of such a listserv or discussion group that is into mental erotic stimulation.

stefburn

For Them, Just Saying No Is Easy

By MARY DUENWALD

Published: June 9, 2005

BIRDS do it, bees do it. But not necessarily all of them. Among bees the sisters of queens do not engage in sex. And in certain species of birds - Florida scrub jays, for one - some individuals, known as helpers, do not breed but only help the breeders raise their offspring.

Skip to next paragraph Randi Lynn Beach for The New York Times WHERE TO FIT? Asexuals want relationships, says David Jay of the Asexual Visibility Network.

Ian Jackson for The New York Times NOT INTERESTED: Cijay Morgan doesn't want to have her asexuality fixed.

But could indifference to sex extend to humans, too? An increasing number of people say yes and offer themselves as proof. They describe themselves as asexual, and they call their condition normal, not the result of confused sexual orientation, a fear of intimacy or a temporary lapse of desire. They would like the world to understand that they can live their entire lives happily without ever having sex.

"People think they need to convert you," said Cijay Morgan, 42, a telephone saleswoman in Edmonton, Alberta, and a self-professed asexual. "They can understand if you don't like country music or onion rings or if you aren't interested in learning how to whistle, but they can't accept someone not wanting sex. What they don't understand is that a lot of asexuals don't wish to be quote-unquote fixed."

Considering the pervasive advertising for drugs to enhance sexual performance, the efforts to market a testosterone patch to boost sexual desire in women and the ubiquity of sexual references in pop culture, it is not surprising that those professing no sex drive whatever have been misunderstood, or at least overlooked. Only one scientific survey seems to have been done. And many experts in human sexuality, when told there is a growing Internet community of people calling themselves asexual, say they have not heard of it. Yet most of those experts find the concept unsurprising.

Three-fourths of the patients who go to the Center for Sexual Medicine at Boston University lack any sex drive, said Dr. Irwin Goldstein, its director, who is also the editor of The Journal of Sexual Medicine. "We call that H.S.D.D., hypoactive sexual desire disorder," he said. Lack of interest in sex is not necessarily a disorder nor even a problem, however, Dr. Goldstein quickly added, unless it causes distress, if it leads, for instance, to conflict within a marriage or romantic relationship. Dr. John Bancroft, the recently retired director of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at Indiana University, said, "I think it would be very surprising if there weren't asexuals, if you look at it from a Kinseyan perspective, that there's this huge variation in human sexuality."

Not all clinicians agree that lack of interest in sex can be considered normal. "It's a bit like people saying they never have an appetite for food," said Dr. Leonard R. Derogatis, a psychologist and the director of the Center for Sexual Health and Medicine at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. "Sex is a natural drive, as natural as the drive for sustenance and water to survive. It's a little difficult to judge these folks as normal."

Asexual people often say they have been aware of their lack of interest in sex since adolescence and that while it may have troubled them, they never knew anything different. "I realized I was asexual about the same time I realized I was short, when I was about 15," said Miss Morgan of Edmonton, who is 5-foot-1. "I realized I was short when everyone grew taller than me, and I realized I didn't have sexual feelings when everyone else started expressing and experimenting with theirs."

The Internet has provided a platform for people calling themselves asexual to announce their collective existence. The anonymity of the Web makes it easier to converse about the topic, said Todd Niquette, 36, a systems analyst in St. Paul and a member of the Asexual Visibility and Education Network, an Internet group. With more than 4,000 registered participants, it is the largest such community of asexuals. "What we're really trying to find out is: how can I feel less alone in this?" Mr. Niquette said.

His network defines an asexual as someone who "does not experience sexual attraction." This definition is, of course, distinct from the much older concept of asexual reproduction, practiced by amoebas, jellyfish and whiptail lizards, for example, as well as by many species of plants.

Asexuals might have sexual urges and even masturbate, but they do not want to have sex with other people, said David Jay, 23, who founded the Asexual Visibility and Education Network (called AVEN by its members) four years ago, when he was in college. Asexuals often feel romantic attraction for other people, Mr. Jay said. It just doesn't involve sex.

Mr. Jay, who works for an educational nonprofit organization in San Francisco, is a talkative, outgoing man with a ready smile and plenty of friends. He is, he said, interested in "deep emotional involvement" and in raising children (though "not necessarily having my own"). But he has never had sex, he said, adding there is a good chance he never will.

If asexual people are commonplace, why have they not been mentioned in history books or anywhere else before the advent of the Internet? Elizabeth Abbott, a research associate at Trinity College of the University of Toronto, is the author of "A History of Celibacy." She speculates that it may be because such people have stayed under the radar. They never married perhaps, or they entered into sexless marriages, or they had sex without wanting to. Unlike homosexuality, she noted, asexuality has never been illegal.

Society has not always accepted it, however. As early as the Middle Ages, Dr. Abbott said, "nonconsummation of marriage" was considered "an insult to the sacrament of marriage" and a ground for divorce. Asexuality, she noted, is distinct from celibacy, which implies a conscious decision to stifle a desire for sex. What appears to be the only published study of asexuality - which defined it as a lifelong lack of sexual attraction to either men or women - found that 1.1 percent of adults may be asexual. The figure was drawn from a survey of 18,000 Britons who were interviewed in 1994 about sexually transmitted diseases. The data were reanalyzed by Dr. Anthony F. Bogaert, a psychologist at Brock University in St. Catharines, Ontario, who published his findings last August in The Journal of Sex Research.

Dr. Bogaert found that 44 percent of those expressing no interest in sex were either married or living with partners or had been in the past. One might assume that by avoiding sex and all the emotions and responsibilities that go with it, let alone the health risks, asexuals might have a comparatively easy life.

"But I think we exchange all that for a different set of trouble," Mr. Jay said. "Sex is very central to life in a lot of ways, and one of the real challenges of being asexual is trying to figure out where you fit."

That problem typically arises during the teenage years. "I knew when I was 16 or 17 that sex was just something that seemed tremendously important to everybody else but that I just didn't get," said David Warner, 55, a technical writer and editor in a Virginia suburb of Washington.

Like many other asexuals, Kate Goldfield, 21, a student at Goucher College in Baltimore, once thought she might be a lesbian. "I decided I must be gay because I knew I wasn't straight," she said. But she said she has since realized that she is not sexually attracted to women either. Asexuals say they are often told that they will change when they meet the right person or when circumstances change, but those predictions do not ring true to them.

"Why do I need sexuality in my life so much that I should divert my time and energy to finding out what it is that will turn me on?" Mr. Jay asked. Physicians have found that they can prompt sexual desire in both women and men by giving them supplemental hormones. And some scientists suspect that hormones might be involved in some cases of asexuality. Or, Dr. Bogaert suggested, it could be that certain brain structures may have developed differently in asexual people.

Dr. Derogatis agreed that low hormone levels usually underlie low libido but said sometimes psychological mechanisms come into play. "Some of these people may have a very powerful phobia about sex," he said. Yet a small and still unpublished survey of 1,146 people - including 41 who described themselves as asexual - conducted in online interviews by Nicole Prause, a graduate student in psychology at Indiana, found that asexuals do not resist having sex because of fear. Rather asexuals "only lack the excitatory drive," Ms. Prause said in an e-mail message.

Barry W. McCarthy, a professor of psychology at American University and an author of "Rekindling Desire," a self-help book for married couples, said many people who experience inhibited desire would be well advised to examine that inhibition because it may turn out to be the result of fear, rather than a natural desire to forgo sex. "You have to respect people's individual differences," he said. "But for the great majority of people with inhibited desire the answer is not asexuality."

People often experience periods of asexuality. Many married couples give up sex after a number of years, said Dr. Pepper Schwartz, a sociologist at the University of Washington in Seattle and the author of "Everything You Know About Love and Sex Is Wrong." "Some people are relieved to not only back-burner sex, but to no-burner it," she said.

Mr. Jay acknowledged that some asexuals have spent - or will spend - some time being sexual. "We'll have people in AVEN who get into a relationship where suddenly they enjoy sex, and we have many people who say they used to enjoy sex but really not anymore," he said. "But the majority of the community is pretty stable."

A 32-year-old man in Dallas named Keith (he declined to give his last name) said he had tried to cope with his asexuality by marrying. "I thought that getting married would fix me and suddenly I would become interested in sex." After six years he and his wife were divorced, and now he is living with a younger man in a relationship that he described as loving and romantic but free of sex.

Mr. Jay said he believes asexual people can learn to negotiate relationships with sexual people.

"In high school and early college, when I would sense that someone was hitting on me, I would go into defensive mode and be like, 'O.K., this can't work,' " he said. "But since then I've realized that if someone is going to approach me sexually, it means they like my personality." In recent months many people have logged on to the asexuals' network Web site to learn to understand better partners or spouses who are asexual, Mr. Jay said.

"There's a real desire out there to figure out how do you manage relationships without sexuality?" he said. "We don't have anything like a self-help book we could write on this yet."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/09/fashion/thursdaystyles/09asexual.html?pagewanted=3&ei=5088&en=520063b1b0fd9ad7&ex=1275969600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

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I am not sure if this list is the right place for me. I am not into physical stimulation. I would much rather have mentally erotic stimulation, erotic teasing, mind-fucking more or less.. but nothing physical.

I feel that if I could find someone, male or female who is into being mentally stimulated, non-physical stimulation, mental or psychological eroticism then, that would be a start.

Actual physical sex is not what I seek. I would like to stay clear of it. Is there anyone else here that feels this way.

Am I in the right place wanting what I want. If not, maybe someone can tell me of such a listserv or discussion group that is into mental erotic stimulation.

stefburn

I hope you are in the right place. I for one can relate to what you say. Have you tried AVEN? http://www.asexuality.org/discussion/ If not, I strongly recomend it to you, and to all others here.

Take care,

Shadow.