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He probably wants you.

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

I don't know about you, but several people here who claim to be asexual, had or have sex, or are attracted to people, sexually or not.

So, indeed some people THINK they are asexual and they aren't

Maybe you fall into this category according to this, but as I said, I don't know much about you to justify him or not

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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So Palatinus what exactly is the definition of an asexual since apparently having had sex in the past disqualifies one from being asexual.

I think I know what Palatinus means since sometimes on AVEN members go on some diatribe about how cute a celebrity is or the awful "who are you cutest for" thread. Although perhaps there was a more articulate way of making this point.

I don't know about you, but several people here who claim to be asexual, had or have sex, or are attracted to people, sexually or not.

So, indeed some people THINK they are asexual and they aren't

Maybe you fall into this category according to this, but as I said, I don't know much about you to justify him or not

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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The way I see this, is that many asexuals still experience attractions to people's looks. There is nothing sexual in the way they see other people. I find many people attractive and 'cute', but I am still asexual, as I do not want to EVER have sex with ANYONE. There is a vast difference in being drawn to asthetic beauty, and wanting to 'have it off' with that person in question. I hope I'm making sence. The very thought of myself engaging in sex sickens me to the core. yet I still find people beautiful, internally and externally. I still adore physical and emotional closeness with those I care most deeply about. Yes, I adore long intimate embraces. NOT sexual ones I must add: That is, no groping, no moving hands where they are not wanted, no tounges outside of the owner's mouth... I have tried 'frence kissing' in the past, and did not care for it one bit. A soft kiss on the face, or even lips if done right, can be such an intimate moment. I say again, I am NOT sexual! I see myself as asexual. ALL asexuals are different. I understand some would likely be sickened by my personal preferences mentioned above, but live and let live. I DO NOT WANT SEX, PERIOD! If that does not make me asexual... please tell me what it does make me. Though I hate having labels fixed on me, I am comfortable with 'asexual'. :)

...I did not mean to ramble for so long. Please forgive me. And I appologise for any typos.

So Palatinus what exactly is the definition of an asexual since apparently having had sex in the past disqualifies one from being asexual.

I think I know what Palatinus means since sometimes on AVEN members go on some diatribe about how cute a celebrity is or the awful "who are you cutest for" thread. Although perhaps there was a more articulate way of making this point.

elfiness@... said:

I don't know about you, but several people here who claim to be asexual, had or have sex, or are attracted to people, sexually or not.

So, indeed some people THINK they are asexual and they aren't

Maybe you fall into this category according to this, but as I said, I don't know much about you to justify him or not

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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This sounds like the common misconception many people have where love=sex. If you love them, you must want to have sex with them and vice versa. Culturally speaking, we don't seem to have a lot of room for non-sexual love outside of the context of family.

Katie

it's hard for people to comprehend asexuality. it's like trying to understand a new dimension that you never knew about. they'll sometimes cling on any little thread of "proof" they can get. "oh, you're not asexual, it's just these, uh.. aliens! yeah, aliens playing mind games with you. hope they get tired soon, buddy!"

maybe you're very close physically to people? e.g. hug them a lot etc? that's just fine, don't get me wrong, but it could create the illusion that you like to play the stick-in-the-hole game. that connection actually makes sense to sexual people, i guess.

This evening someone told me that I'm not asexual. I said yes I am asexual--I think I would know a thing like that. He said, "No, you're *very* sexual." This is not a person who has ever indicated the slightest interest in wanting me to be sexual *with him*, so I don't think that's what this is about. But when I asked him on what basis he was saying that I'm "very sexual," he started talking about how I "care very deeply about people." Huh?? How on earth does that equate with being "very sexual"??? What's this guy talking about?????

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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It sounds to me like he is mixing up love and sex, which I think are two different things. You can love someone and not have sex with them, just like you can have sex with someone and not love them (i.e. prostitution). They don't come in a package either. I would be happy just to live out my life with someone who loves me, but there is no sex involved. I have run into people like your friend and when I try to explain to them about my asexuality, they seem to think me incapable of deeply loving someone outside my parents and sister. It is frustrating to me to run into people like that who think that I have some mental problem or something, just because I have no sexual desire. I just don't understand it at all.

Kristen

He probably wants you.

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

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Amen to that! I completely agree with you. I find some people to be really good looking, I just don't think of them in a sexual way and when someone else does, it grosses me out. I guess I just like their facial looks or general build or voice or whatever, and pay no attention to what they'd be like in bed or whatever.

Kristen

The way I see this, is that many asexuals still experience attractions to people's looks. There is nothing sexual in the way they see other people. I find many people attractive and 'cute', but I am still asexual, as I do not want to EVER have sex with ANYONE. There is a vast difference in being drawn to asthetic beauty, and wanting to 'have it off' with that person in question. I hope I'm making sence. The very thought of myself engaging in sex sickens me to the core. yet I still find people beautiful, internally and externally. I still adore physical and emotional closeness with those I care most deeply about. Yes, I adore long intimate embraces. NOT sexual ones I must add: That is, no groping, no moving hands where they are not wanted, no tounges outside of the owner's mouth... I have tried 'frence kissing' in the past, and did not care for it one bit. A soft kiss on the face, or even lips if done right, can be such an intimate moment. I say again, I am NOT sexual! I see myself as asexual. ALL asexuals are different. I understand some would likely be sickened by my personal preferences mentioned above, but live and let live. I DO NOT WANT SEX, PERIOD! If that does not make me asexual... please tell me what it does make me. Though I hate having labels fixed on me, I am comfortable with 'asexual'. :)

...I did not mean to ramble for so long. Please forgive me. And I appologise for any typos.

So Palatinus what exactly is the definition of an asexual since apparently having had sex in the past disqualifies one from being asexual.

I think I know what Palatinus means since sometimes on AVEN members go on some diatribe about how cute a celebrity is or the awful "who are you cutest for" thread. Although perhaps there was a more articulate way of making this point.

elfiness@... said:

I don't know about you, but several people here who claim to be asexual, had or have sex, or are attracted to people, sexually or not.

So, indeed some people THINK they are asexual and they aren't

Maybe you fall into this category according to this, but as I said, I don't know much about you to justify him or not

I very much doubt it. I've known him for at least two years and never picked up on any hint of that. Besides, he's probably older than my parents, he already has a partner that he's very committed to, he gives every indication of being heterosexual, and he consistently refers to me using masculine terms (even though I've also told him I'm intersexed, and as a physician he does know what that means).

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba/

[email protected]

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Kristen a.k.a. Mags (that makes me Mags, the Mag-nificent)

"And then God created ketchup, but the devil laughed, and that's why hell is red in all of the paintings." - Kristen's musings

maybe you're very close physically to people? e.g. hug them a lot etc?

Me?? Absolutely not. I don't even touch people unless they initiate it (like a handshake), and if I'm feeling particularly tactile defensive I don't shake hands even if the other person does try to initiate. Currently there's only one person in my life that I'm willing to hug, and I've lost track of how many months it's been since I've seen (and hugged) that person. At least six months, maybe longer.

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

Asexuals Unite

By Traci Hukill, AlterNet. Posted April 24, 2006.

A small but growing movement believes that asexuality is an orientation as valid as straight or gay.

What do you do if you're a self-proclaimed asexual and you fall in love with another asexual?

You cuddle and kiss and talk a lot. You go to dinner parties, bicker over movies, sleep in the same bed. Maybe you even snuggle up and spoon, the two of you curled up in a cozy double-S.

But it does not occur to you to make the beast with two backs. Your sexual congress is permanently adjourned. You're in love, you're just not making any.

That's more or less the explanation given by Paul Cox, a 21-year-old Long Island University student. While organizing meet ups of New York asexuals last year, Cox met a young woman from the Brooklyn group and started spending a lot of time with her. All his time, actually, and for months, until she pointed out that their friendship had blossomed into a romance. Cox didn't even realize what was happening. "She's the one who dragged it out of me and drilled it into my head," he says, still sounding a little baffled.

Sounds like normal male-female relations. Cox says everything about them is normal. "It's kind of amazing how little of a difference it makes that we're not actually sexually attracted to each other," he says. "The longer we're in this, the more trivial it seems."

The Asexuality Visibility and Education Network couldn't have said it better. In a flurry of media attention that began with the March 24 airing of a segment on "20/20," Cox and other AVEN members have appeared on CNN, Fox News and MSNBC's "The Situation" with Tucker Carlson to make the case that asexuality is as valid, normal and healthy as heterosexuality and homosexuality. They've booked engagements at universities and conferences. The exposure has brought hundreds of new members to the 8,000-strong network.

"Sexuality is like any other activity," says David Jay, AVEN's 23-year-old founder. "There are people for whom skydiving, chocolate cake and soccer are their world. But some people don't like skydiving, chocolate cake or soccer. There's no reason to focus your energy and attention on something you feel no reason to do anything about."

Asexuality is not celibacy, abstinence or escapism, Jay says. "Whatever sexual orientation is, it works like that. It's not something we choose. It's something we intrinsically feel."

But questions remain -- big questions. Mainly: "Are you sure you're not gay?"

An open-ended view of (a)sexuality

Not long ago a gay friend surprised me by declaring his belief that bisexuality doesn't exist. You're straight, gay or lying, he said. It struck me as unnecessarily restrictive. Who's to say there's no gray area between the homo- and heterosexual poles?

But I'm guilty of same. I remember a discussion among friends about a mutual friend, a man, who has never dated anyone as far as any of us knows and who emanates no detectable sexual vibe. Confounded, we ruminated over the possibilities, dragging theories and evidence out for scrutiny. "There's no porn stash," offered one who had stayed at his house. "I think he visits prostitutes," another confided. A third asked the inevitable: "Do you think he's gay and repressed?" We agreed that asexuality was a possibility, at least in theory, but we couldn't decide whether it actually existed.

Underlying that conversation was incredulity that a human being -- especially a man -- could lack a sex drive. In hindsight that seems as narrow as my friend's dismissal of bisexuality. Why shouldn't there be a whole range of intensity of desire, from zero to 10? I know couples in sexless marriages who are utterly devoted to each other, and women who don't care if they never have sex again.

Apparently we are poor judges of each other's sex lives. "There's a wide assumption that everybody's engaging in a lot of sex, and it's just not true," says University of Wisconsin's John DeLamater, editor of the Journal of Sex Research. "Even people who are engaging in sex aren't doing it as frequently as other people think they are."

Asexuality is a poorly understood phenomenon. Two years ago Anthony Bogaert of Canada's Brock University published a study suggesting 1 percent to 2 percent of the population is not interested in having sex. Little other research exists.

There isn't even a real definition. Is it the absence of sexual desire? The lack of desire to have sex with another person? Is it a distinct orientation? Or a matter of intensity? What if you used to like sex and now you don't?

In the absence of consensus, asexual groups have made up their own definitions. The Official Asexuality Society, another online community, states very clearly that its members, referred to as "nonlibidoists," do not experience sexual urges at all. AVEN, on the other hand, has a big-tent philosophy.

A note on the website reads: "Each asexual person experiences things like relationships, attraction and arousal somewhat differently." Moreover, some asexual people identify as gay, bi or straight. It goes on: "For some, sexual arousal is a fairly regular occurrence, though it is not associated with a desire to find a sexual partner or partners. Some will occasionally masturbate, but feel no desire for partnered sexuality. Other asexual people experience little or no arousal."

This is where many folks out there in TV land might have trouble believing asexuality is not cover for something else. So you can masturbate and still call yourself asexual?

Jay likes to keep things inclusive. No one who visits the site is told that he or she doesn't qualify as an asexual, because the group's main goal is to encourage open discourse so people don't have to struggle the way Jay did when he was younger. "I spent a number of years coming to terms with myself and realizing it wasn't a problem, that it didn't mean I couldn't fall in love with people or anything like that," he says.

Jay embodies some of the contradictions in this open-ended view of asexuality. "I'm asexual and bi, more or less," he says. He has a history of what he describes as emotionally intimate, nonsexual relationships with men and women, though more often with women. "The way that emotional intimacy works in cross-gender relationships is easier than same-gender friendships," he says. "I'm also more attracted to women than men."

Jay says he is "one of those people who's felt sexual arousal," but he's not inspired to find a sexual partner, and he doesn't use sexuality to communicate intimacy. To him that spells asexual.

I believe there's a wide range of human behavior that deserves to be recognized as normal and healthy, but old stereotypes die hard. When I learn that Jay's main mode of transportation around San Francisco is a pair of rollerblades, I think to myself, "This man is gay."

It's a lot like professional football

Paul Cox notes that young asexuals are often told, and end up believing, that they're just late bloomers. "Until we find out it's something we can be," he says, "it's hard to feel like we've matured because there are rites of passage and certain things you're supposed to have experienced if you're an adult."

A lot of AVEN's members are in their 20s and younger, but not all. A man I'll call Brian (he asked for anonymity), who lives in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C., is 56 years old. He does not date or form intimate relationships with men or women. He's not sure if that's related to his asexuality or because he moved around a lot for many years. Brian stumbled onto the AVEN online community three years ago. He describes the discovery with elegance borrowed from Shakespeare. "It gave 'to airy nothing a local habitation and a name' was kind of my feeling about it at the time, and still is," he says. "It was something I've always known about myself but it wasn't anything I ever thought about in terms of other people."

Brian has felt attracted to men and knows they've been attracted to him, but, like Jay, he still considers himself asexual because he has never thought of seeking out a sexual partner. It's like professional football, he says; a lot of men get really excited about it, "but if you gave them the opportunity to go down on the field and play, they wouldn't."

They might if their best friend went with them. I asked Cox if he and his girlfriend had discussed the possibility of sex. They had.

"We decided to just be open about it," he said. "If one developed the desire to have sex, I think the other would just go along with it for the other's sake."

That's not exactly hot, but for all the lack of romance this couple shares something most couples don't. They might fight about money and religion, but they'll never have to argue about sex.

"One way to look at it is sexuality's missing from our relationship," says Cox. "Another way is, we're one of the most sexually compatible couples in the world."

Traci Hukill is a freelance journalist based in Monterey, Calif.

http://www.alternet.org/story/35138/

if you like your condition and you're happy with it, chances are that there's nothing wrong with you :) on the other hand, if you start to think that something's wrong with you, that's where your problems begin and you start feeling bad for being different, try to "fix" yourself only to end up in a situation that you like much less - i.e. force yourself to have sex even though you really believe you could do better things with your time.

how do we accept it? first of all, we have proof. we see other people on the internet that are similar to us. i, for example, have become way more confident since a local forum for asexuals has opened. second, you have to realise, then repeat it to yourself, then realise once again that it's okay. and then someone else will come up and say that your condition is terrible, and even though you feel great you'll start doubting again. that's okay. we were all raised on sexuality as a basic thing when it really shouldn't be. maybe younger people accept it more because we learned that homosexuality is common at an earlier age and went on the internet at an earlier age. different, more open influences.

i'm sure there are many 50-60-70 year old asexuals and older than that who are terrified to admit it because of the influences, because when they were raised even homosexuals weren't as open and common as they are now.

so, back to you. don't be "hetrosexual" or "asexual" or any other label, just be yourself. i see that you've found that the asexual label fits you as it fits the rest of us here, but don't feel confined by it. it's hard to accept something that confines you to things you never learned about, even if they're true. just do what you feel is good for you, know that you have a group here that backs you up and the acceptance of asexuality will come. or so i believe.

Hello I´m new here. After over thirty years I´m slowly and unwillingly coming to the insight that I´ve probably been partly asexuall most of my life and totaly asexuall at least the past fifteen years. For me it has always been a curse. It´s as though somthing essentially human has been denied me. I am amazed on reading how young people in this forum take being asexuall with such ease. I am full of awe. This was unthinkable. For me not getting an erektion was a katastrofee. I wanted to be close to a woman but no relationship could last due to my, in my eyes, impotency. All women I have met have wanted to have sex, and in relation to thier desires I felt small and worthless as a man. I wanted to be with them but I usually had no sexuall desire what so ever. I´ve gone in therapy several times, I´ve torn my brain apart to find a solution or reason. I´ve done all the hormon tests. Nothing. When I found people like you all on the net, I relized something that I´ve thought many times but paid no heed to, yeah I´m most probably asexuall. I´ve been married and I have children. Now I´m divorced, to a certain extent due to my lack of desire. I have fallen in love a couple of times, I like women. And though they atrakt me they dont rouse me. I´ve had this `problem´ all my life but until now I´ve allways thougt that something fysikaly or mentaly has been wrong with me. Now reading that you people exist I do not see myself as a freak anymore. But I still have great troubles accepting it. How do you do it? JR from Sweden

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I have engaged in sexual relationships with men in the past, yet in the recent years I have absolutely no desire to have sexual interaction with anyone. I never truly enjoyed sex anyway. Ugh! I am totally straight, for I am not attracted to women. I enjoy sexual release in the art of masturbation, and this is the only sexual experience I desire. Nothing more, nothing less. I do find men attractive, yet am completely opposed to engaging in sex. Masturbation is like a stress reliever, and is not something I do on a regular basis. Where do I stand on this notion of asexuality?

I don't understand this guy unless he is one of those who things caring is sexual.

I happen to like affection and this does not have any relationship to sexuality, not related to kissing and so on. I know there is a thick line between affection and sex.

Jen

On 25 Apr 2006, iillina z said:

maybe you're very close physically to people? e.g. hug them a lot etc?

Me?? Absolutely not. I don't even touch people unless they initiate it (like a handshake), and if I'm feeling particularly tactile defensive I don't shake hands even if the other person does try to initiate. Currently there's only one person in my life that I'm willing to hug, and I've lost track of how many months it's been since I've seen (and hugged) that person. At least six months, maybe longer.

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

I would actual love to find a companion. Someone to be like Cox explained. Some to share a life with without sex. This article gives a bit of hope.

Asexuals Unite

By Traci Hukill, AlterNet. Posted April 24, 2006.

A small but growing movement believes that asexuality is an orientation as valid as straight or gay.

What do you do if you're a self-proclaimed asexual and you fall in love with another asexual?

You cuddle and kiss and talk a lot. You go to dinner parties, bicker over movies, sleep in the same bed. Maybe you even snuggle up and spoon, the two of you curled up in a cozy double-S.

But it does not occur to you to make the beast with two backs. Your sexual congress is permanently adjourned. You're in love, you're just not making any.

That's more or less the explanation given by Paul Cox, a 21-year-old Long Island University student. While organizing meet ups of New York asexuals last year, Cox met a young woman from the Brooklyn group and started spending a lot of time with her. All his time, actually, and for months, until she pointed out that their friendship had blossomed into a romance. Cox didn't even realize what was happening. "She's the one who dragged it out of me and drilled it into my head," he says, still sounding a little baffled.

Sounds like normal male-female relations. Cox says everything about them is normal. "It's kind of amazing how little of a difference it makes that we're not actually sexually attracted to each other," he says. "The longer we're in this, the more trivial it seems."

The Asexuality Visibility and Education Network couldn't have said it better. In a flurry of media attention that began with the March 24 airing of a segment on "20/20," Cox and other AVEN members have appeared on CNN, Fox News and MSNBC's "The Situation" with Tucker Carlson to make the case that asexuality is as valid, normal and healthy as heterosexuality and homosexuality. They've booked engagements at universities and conferences. The exposure has brought hundreds of new members to the 8,000-strong network.

"Sexuality is like any other activity," says David Jay, AVEN's 23-year-old founder. "There are people for whom skydiving, chocolate cake and soccer are their world. But some people don't like skydiving, chocolate cake or soccer. There's no reason to focus your energy and attention on something you feel no reason to do anything about."

Asexuality is not celibacy, abstinence or escapism, Jay says. "Whatever sexual orientation is, it works like that. It's not something we choose. It's something we intrinsically feel."

But questions remain -- big questions. Mainly: "Are you sure you're not gay?"

An open-ended view of (a)sexuality

Not long ago a gay friend surprised me by declaring his belief that bisexuality doesn't exist. You're straight, gay or lying, he said. It struck me as unnecessarily restrictive. Who's to say there's no gray area between the homo- and heterosexual poles?

But I'm guilty of same. I remember a discussion among friends about a mutual friend, a man, who has never dated anyone as far as any of us knows and who emanates no detectable sexual vibe. Confounded, we ruminated over the possibilities, dragging theories and evidence out for scrutiny. "There's no porn stash," offered one who had stayed at his house. "I think he visits prostitutes," another confided. A third asked the inevitable: "Do you think he's gay and repressed?" We agreed that asexuality was a possibility, at least in theory, but we couldn't decide whether it actually existed.

Underlying that conversation was incredulity that a human being -- especially a man -- could lack a sex drive. In hindsight that seems as narrow as my friend's dismissal of bisexuality. Why shouldn't there be a whole range of intensity of desire, from zero to 10? I know couples in sexless marriages who are utterly devoted to each other, and women who don't care if they never have sex again.

Apparently we are poor judges of each other's sex lives. "There's a wide assumption that everybody's engaging in a lot of sex, and it's just not true," says University of Wisconsin's John DeLamater, editor of the Journal of Sex Research. "Even people who are engaging in sex aren't doing it as frequently as other people think they are."

Asexuality is a poorly understood phenomenon. Two years ago Anthony Bogaert of Canada's Brock University published a study suggesting 1 percent to 2 percent of the population is not interested in having sex. Little other research exists.

There isn't even a real definition. Is it the absence of sexual desire? The lack of desire to have sex with another person? Is it a distinct orientation? Or a matter of intensity? What if you used to like sex and now you don't?

In the absence of consensus, asexual groups have made up their own definitions. The Official Asexuality Society, another online community, states very clearly that its members, referred to as "nonlibidoists," do not experience sexual urges at all. AVEN, on the other hand, has a big-tent philosophy.

A note on the website reads: "Each asexual person experiences things like relationships, attraction and arousal somewhat differently." Moreover, some asexual people identify as gay, bi or straight. It goes on: "For some, sexual arousal is a fairly regular occurrence, though it is not associated with a desire to find a sexual partner or partners. Some will occasionally masturbate, but feel no desire for partnered sexuality. Other asexual people experience little or no arousal."

This is where many folks out there in TV land might have trouble believing asexuality is not cover for something else. So you can masturbate and still call yourself asexual?

Jay likes to keep things inclusive. No one who visits the site is told that he or she doesn't qualify as an asexual, because the group's main goal is to encourage open discourse so people don't have to struggle the way Jay did when he was younger. "I spent a number of years coming to terms with myself and realizing it wasn't a problem, that it didn't mean I couldn't fall in love with people or anything like that," he says.

Jay embodies some of the contradictions in this open-ended view of asexuality. "I'm asexual and bi, more or less," he says. He has a history of what he describes as emotionally intimate, nonsexual relationships with men and women, though more often with women. "The way that emotional intimacy works in cross-gender relationships is easier than same-gender friendships," he says. "I'm also more attracted to women than men."

Jay says he is "one of those people who's felt sexual arousal," but he's not inspired to find a sexual partner, and he doesn't use sexuality to communicate intimacy. To him that spells asexual.

I believe there's a wide range of human behavior that deserves to be recognized as normal and healthy, but old stereotypes die hard. When I learn that Jay's main mode of transportation around San Francisco is a pair of rollerblades, I think to myself, "This man is gay."

It's a lot like professional football

Paul Cox notes that young asexuals are often told, and end up believing, that they're just late bloomers. "Until we find out it's something we can be," he says, "it's hard to feel like we've matured because there are rites of passage and certain things you're supposed to have experienced if you're an adult."

A lot of AVEN's members are in their 20s and younger, but not all. A man I'll call Brian (he asked for anonymity), who lives in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, D.C., is 56 years old. He does not date or form intimate relationships with men or women. He's not sure if that's related to his asexuality or because he moved around a lot for many years. Brian stumbled onto the AVEN online community three years ago. He describes the discovery with elegance borrowed from Shakespeare. "It gave 'to airy nothing a local habitation and a name' was kind of my feeling about it at the time, and still is," he says. "It was something I've always known about myself but it wasn't anything I ever thought about in terms of other people."

Brian has felt attracted to men and knows they've been attracted to him, but, like Jay, he still considers himself asexual because he has never thought of seeking out a sexual partner. It's like professional football, he says; a lot of men get really excited about it, "but if you gave them the opportunity to go down on the field and play, they wouldn't."

They might if their best friend went with them. I asked Cox if he and his girlfriend had discussed the possibility of sex. They had.

"We decided to just be open about it," he said. "If one developed the desire to have sex, I think the other would just go along with it for the other's sake."

That's not exactly hot, but for all the lack of romance this couple shares something most couples don't. They might fight about money and religion, but they'll never have to argue about sex.

"One way to look at it is sexuality's missing from our relationship," says Cox. "Another way is, we're one of the most sexually compatible couples in the world."

Traci Hukill is a freelance journalist based in Monterey, Calif.

http://www.alternet.org/story/35138/

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Hello Everyone. I wanted to take a moment and quickly introduce myself.

My name is Layna. I'm a 35yr old MtF TG in transition, and I just found out that this group exists.

I had absolutely no idea or clue anything like this existed until earlier this week. I read a posting of an alternet article about AVEN on another yahoo group I belong to, and was really struck by how the ideas presented in it resonated with me.

I've taken the last couple of days to read through all the links, and have read through quite a few personal accounts. I always thought I was a bit off, or out there or that maybe something else had been wrong with me because I didn't have the kind of sex drive that my peers had, or because I couldn't flip the "turned on" switch fast enough for my Significant Other.

I don't know what the exact rating of this group is, so I won't go into any explicit details or anything like that. I will say that yes, I'm unsure if I'm defining myself correctly and that I'm very willing to explore this possibility. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? I'm wrong and this isn't the right one? *shrug* No biggie to me.

I want to thank the moderators for passing my message through once they have had the chance to review this, and would also like to say hello to everyone.

Layna

Where do you stand, sexually? Exactly the same place I do. I could have written what you did, except that I am a guy and the words "men" and "women" would need to be reversed. How neat that there is another who, as you state it, is "completely opposed to engaging in sex."

I have engaged in sexual relationships with men in the past, yet in the recent years I have absolutely no desire to have sexual interaction with anyone. I never truly enjoyed sex anyway. Ugh! I am totally straight, for I am not attracted to women. I enjoy sexual release in the art of masturbation, and this is the only sexual experience I desire. Nothing more, nothing less. I do find men attractive, yet am completely opposed to engaging in sex. Masturbation is like a stress reliever, and is not something I do on a regular basis. Where do I stand on this notion of asexuality?

D) None of the above -- some people seem to prefer no sex at all Asexuality could be the 'new' sexual orientation function switch_item_4125599(item, value) { if (document.all) {eval('dclk_' + item + '_4125599.style.visibility=\'' + value+ '\'');} else if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Gecko')>0) {eval('dclk_div["dclk_' + item + '_4125599"].style.visibility=\'' + value+ '\'');} } var ShockMode = 0; var plugin = (navigator.mimeTypes & navigator.mimeTypes["application/x-shockwave-flash"]) ? navigator.mimeTypes["application/x-shockwave-flash"].enabledPlugin : 0; if (plugin& parseInt(plugin.description.substring(plugin.description.indexOf(".")-1)) >= 7) {ShockMode = 1;} else if ((navigator.userAgent & navigator.userAgent.indexOf("MSIE")>=0)& (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Windows 95")>=0 || navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Windows 98")>=0 || navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Windows NT")>=0)) {document.write(' \n'); document.write('on error resume next \n'); document.write('ShockMode = (Isobject(Createobject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash.7")))\n'); document.write('\n');} if (ShockMode) { dclk_crea1 = '

'; } else { dclk_crea1 = ''; } document.write(dclk_crea1); on error resume next ShockMode = (Isobject(Createobject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash.7")))

View Larger Image Edmonton asexual Cijay Morgan Photograph by : Shaughn Butts, The Journal

Misty Harris, CanWest News ServicePublished: Friday, April 28, 2006

In the age of prescription aphrodisiacs and celebrity sex tapes, one phenomenon nobody saw coming is asexuality -- the permanent absence of lust or libido.

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN) has nearly doubled in the last year to 7,500 men and women worldwide -- about 150 times its membership in 2001. By one measure, the total number of asexuals in North America alone could be in the millions.

And now a Canadian psychologist who pioneered research into asexuality is planning an international study to determine whether it's a disorder or a legitimate sexual orientation on par with homo, hetero and bisexuality.

"Finding out what causes asexuality is a major issue," says Anthony Bogaert, a psychologist at Ontario's Brock University.

"I do endorse, or at least leave open the possibility, that this could be a unique or different sexual orientation."

In August 2004, Bogaert published the results of an unprecedented study of the incidence of asexuality. Analysing a British survey in which more than 18,000 people were questioned on their sexual practices, he found 1.05 per cent of respondents agreed with the statement, "I have never felt sexually attracted to anyone at all."

Because Bogaert's figure is specific to Britons in the early '90s, he hesitates to use it as a yardstick for the global asexual population in 2006.

It does, however, provide one benchmark. If the numbers were extrapolated for North America, about 3.5 million people, including 346,500 Canadians, would never have experienced sexual attraction. "I'm doing what I can to figure out whether or not there's truly a biological underpinning to people's asexuality," says Bogaert.

"I may, in the next year or so, end up bringing asexual people into a laboratory and assessing their physiological responses, their sexual responses, to different stimuli and compare them to sexual people's responses."

Cijay Morgan, a self-identified asexual from Edmonton, describes her lifelong absence of sexual urges as "liberating."

Although able to develop crushes based on emotional interest, she says sexual desire -- toward either gender -- never enters the picture.

"I think it's in my hard wiring because it feels as normal as being right-handed or blue-eyed," she says.

"I didn't really think about it until suddenly everybody (in my youth) started speaking this whole new language. I thought that eventually I would think just like them. But I'm 43 now."

According to AVEN, an online network launched in the United States, asexuality differs from celibacy in that it's not a conscious choice.

The Official Nonlibidoism Society, fronted by a young woman in the Netherlands, similarly explains that asexuality "doesn't just mean that 'you don't like sex;' a nonlibidoist has not had a sex drive ever."

That's where asexuals tend to diverge in their views from sex therapists, many of whom explain "the experience of asexuality" as a variation of hypoactive sexual desire disorder or a state triggered by repressed homosexuality, delayed sexual development, or childhood trauma.

"You have to wonder whether they protest too much," says Joy Davidson, a certified sex therapist and author of Fearless Sex.

"There's no law against not being sexual. It's the 'ra-ra,' uneducated, rigid flag-waving that I have a problem with because it doesn't give young people still in their developmental process a framework for understanding the complexities of sexuality and desire."

David Rayside, director of the University of Toronto's Centre for Sexual Diversity Studies, believes it doesn't matter whether asexuality is inborn, ingrained or the result of something else entirely. What's significant, he says, is how self-identified asexuals feel about themselves and the way society treats them as a whole.

"So much like some views of bisexuality, there will be people who say it's a transition, it's a cover," says Rayside.

"But I think it's more important to recognize that it's a phenomenon out there than to worry about whether it's in the same league as homosexuality in all its various forms."

The Edmonton Journal 2006 http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=5b8dbe0b-4e57-49fc-be7e-2f8e52a8ff53&k=20797

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Hi all, I have just discovered this in the past month. I am amazed to finally see who i really am. I am married with kids, have never ever had a desire for sex and have done it all my life to please others. I am pleased to find and meet other people that feel the way i do. I also am pleased to find out i am not "frigid"or " a freak" Is there anyone else that is either married or in a relationship and having sex to save it( well not too much sex actually now)

None taken illi =) And I do agree with you regarding the point about not specifically defining myself. It was more a matter of finding out that I'm not broken or mentally unstable due to having these feelings of not necessarily needing to engage in sex.

And yes, unfortunately you are correct that on the face value the most openly TGs are Transvestites, which is a whole other category, do display overtly sexual natures. To some, it may be a release from societal pressures, for others it may just be they haven't suppressed the T side enough. =P I don't know. I only know my story.

Thanks for the response, and I definitely look forward to engaging in more discussions

Layna

Hi and welcome. you don't have to define yourself, that's restricting. i prefer letting the definitions grow on you - live your own way, don't have sex when you don't want to, have sex when you want to, if you find that your behavior patterns fits asexuals' (and it seems that you have!) then call yourself an asexual, so you can define yourself better to others.

it was really nice to hear about you being a TG. whenever i read about them they seem more "into" sex than others, and it always seems wrong to me since TG isn't about sex - it's about gender. of course, I haven't read and heard enough TGs to make a statement here - but it's very nice to hear about an asexual TG. kind of organizes my opinions about them. (hope I didn't offend there, didn't mean to)

illi

On 4/28/06, lyetisha <lisentia@... > wrote:

Hello Everyone. I wanted to take a moment and quickly introduce myself.

My name is Layna. I'm a 35yr old MtF TG in transition, and I just found out that this group exists.

I had absolutely no idea or clue anything like this existed until earlier this week. I read a posting of an alternet article about AVEN on another yahoo group I belong to, and was really struck by how the ideas presented in it resonated with me.

I've taken the last couple of days to read through all the links, and have read through quite a few personal accounts. I always thought I was a bit off, or out there or that maybe something else had been wrong with me because I didn't have the kind of sex drive that my peers had, or because I couldn't flip the "turned on" switch fast enough for my Significant Other.

I don't know what the exact rating of this group is, so I won't go into any explicit details or anything like that. I will say that yes, I'm unsure if I'm defining myself correctly and that I'm very willing to explore this possibility. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? I'm wrong and this isn't the right one? *shrug* No biggie to me.

I want to thank the moderators for passing my message through once they have had the chance to review this, and would also like to say hello to everyone.

Layna

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Hi all, I have just discovered this in the past month. I am amazed to finally see who i really am. I am married with kids, have never ever had a desire for sex and have done it all my life to please others. I am pleased to find and meet other people that feel the way i do. I also am pleased to find out i am not "frigid"or " a freak" Is there anyone else that is either married or in a relationship and having sex to save it( well not too much sex actually now)

Yes. 11 years now, three children. I pretty much just have sex because it makes my husband happy. It's a chore not unlike mowing the lawn, doing the dishes, or folding clothes. It's caused a lot of problems over the course of my marriage; my husband has blamed it on everything from frigidity, to hormone problems, to me not loving him, to him not being physically attractive, and to me 'being on the the internet'. Every time I've brought up my lack of desire to discuss, it's ended in arguments and hurt feelings.

After awhile I just decided that I'd have sex with him to make him happy as a sacrifice; I love him very much as a person, I just don't desire him. I've never desired /anyone/, not as far back as I can remember. I've learned how to fake sexual interest pretty well, and while I dislike having to fake anything with him, it keeps things together at home.

Wait, I thought this was an asexual site. Asexuals cannot have sex and have no desire to do so.

Hi all, I have just discovered this in the past month. I am amazed to finally see who i really am. I am married with kids, have never ever had a desire for sex and have done it all my life to please others. I am pleased to find and meet other people that feel the way i do. I also am pleased to find out i am not "frigid"or " a freak" Is there anyone else that is either married or in a relationship and having sex to save it( well not too much sex actually now)

Yes. 11 years now, three children. I pretty much just have sex because it makes my husband happy. It's a chore not unlike mowing the lawn, doing the dishes, or folding clothes. It's caused a lot of problems over the course of my marriage; my husband has blamed it on everything from frigidity, to hormone problems, to me not loving him, to him not being physically attractive, and to me 'being on the the internet'. Every time I've brought up my lack of desire to discuss, it's ended in arguments and hurt feelings.

After awhile I just decided that I'd have sex with him to make him happy as a sacrifice; I love him very much as a person, I just don't desire him. I've never desired /anyone/, not as far back as I can remember. I've learned how to fake sexual interest pretty well, and while I dislike having to fake anything with him, it keeps things together at home.

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