Haven for the Human Amoeba

At the top of the front page it also says "Edit membership." There members can unsub too.

Seconded. I read this in text and HTML both.

And my comment about the email Yahoo sends when you first sign up still stands. Plain text or HTML, the directions are right there to be read by anyone willing to spend ten seconds on it rather than earmarking it as spam because it's automated instead of from a Live Person.

Ignoring documentation readily provided and then sending messages to people who have no ability to change anything is rude. Believe me, if you think my actual response was rude, you'd be outright shocked and horrified by my first impulse.

My email client is set for text. The instructions are still very clear. What is rude is when people send those unsub messages to the list and not to the moderator directly. Of course, that would mean that they would have to read the instructions and if they did that, they wouldn't need help.

Dennis.

PS to all the other rude people: not everyone is reading this stuff in HTML. That's Yahoo's fault, not the readers. You can also blame AOL for being one of the first to bring that crap HTML into e-mail.

Yahoo! Groups Links

"Don't Litter- Spay or Neuter!" http://savesurface.com/

My email client is set for text. The instructions are still very clear. What is rude is when people send those unsub messages to the list and not to the moderator directly. Of course, that would mean that they would have to read the instructions and if they did that, they wouldn't need help.

Dennis.

I wouldn't know who the moderator is. Why would they?

Anyway, assuming everyone knows what you or I know is wrong.

Stop thinking everyone has the same knowledge you do and you'll be miles ahead.

Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...

Like I said, she didn't read the directions or she wouldn't have to ask to be unsubscribed. If you go to the home page for the group, the list owner's address is right there under the posting address and the unsubscribe address. Plain sight.

In case she doesn't know what the list home page is, its: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba/

These addresses are not secret. They are given to everybody who joins. However, we are probably beating a dead horse as its unlikely that she is still subscribed.

Dennis.

I wouldn't know who the moderator is. Why would they?

Anyway, assuming everyone knows what you or I know is wrong.

Stop thinking everyone has the same knowledge you do and you'll be miles ahead.

June,

I am curious about your 16 year old. Is he normal in terms of sexuality, or does he exhibit any signs of asexuality? I'm just trying to figure out if there is any heredity link.

I don't have any kids myself, but all of my nieces and nephews seem to be heterosexual. I have always encouraged them to be interested in the opposite sex and as far as I know they have. My nephew just has his second kid and my niece is getting married soon.

Dennis.

I was married and I have two kids (and according to my 16 year old, I didn't have sex then either, I was artificially inseminated by aliens with the fathers sperm - once you get to know me better you will see that we view the world with humor)

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is helping me alot. It is so nice to hear there are other people like me out there. I wish my husband could understand that though I love him I just don't want sex. maybe one day he will get it. Til then here I am. Debra

DEBRA (Who Else?)

PS to all the other rude people: not everyone is reading this stuff in HTML. That's Yahoo's fault, not the readers. You can also blame AOL for being one of the first to bring that crap HTML into e-mail.

Again, they can always visit the list's homepage and change their options

Yahoo!; (spam); Yahoo! Mail

http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr

Debra,

Take it from another Deborah, some guys never "get it" I dated one knuckle dragger who insisted that if sex wasn't involved, we weren't in a relationship. It's sad when people equate physical acts with emotions. I wish you luck.

Debbie

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is helping me alot. It is so nice to hear there are other people like me out there. I wish my husband could understand that though I love him I just don't want sex. maybe one day he will get it. Til then here I am. Debra

DEBRA (Who Else?)

Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

These addresses are not secret. They are given to everybody who joins. However, we are probably beating a dead horse as its unlikely that she is still subscribed.

Hopefully, yeah. I think with all the information we have put out, s/he should be.

Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...

Thank-you so much. Can you believe one lady said "open your legs ad put your mind on autipilot" She went as far as to say she would not mind if she was raped b/c her mind is stronger than that." What planet is she from? I feel bad for her.

Anyways, my husband may be coming around abit. We will have to see. They say they will try to change but then a week goes by... You know what I mean. Thanks again. The support helps so much! Debra

DEBRA (Who Else?)

Dennis asked:

I am curious about your 16 year old. Is he normal in terms of sexuality, or does he exhibit any signs of asexuality? I'm just trying to figure out if there is any heredity link.

I have a 15 year old son, so I can probably answer this as well. He seems to be your typical hormone driven teenager, at least based on his numerous drawings of the female anatomy and the websites he likes to visit when he's home alone. Now, if he could get past the stage where he's too scared to talk to a girl, he'd be set. ;) Of course, I guess I'm assuming that this isn't just an outward show, and he truly is interested in the opposite sex.

Debra,

Thank-you so much. Can you believe one lady said "open your legs ad put your mind on autipilot"

Actually, a lot of asexual people do exactly that. They get married because they are in love and believe that they can handle the sex situation by pretending to like it for the sake of their spouses. The problem is that it gets harder with each successive year. Eventually, something usually breaks when they can no longer tolerate it.

She went as far as to say she would not mind if she was raped b/c her mind is stronger than that." What planet is she from? I feel bad for her.

I didn't get that one either. Rape is not about sex, its about violation. It would make no difference to a woman if she was raped by a man with a penis or a lesbian with a dildo. For that matter, men get raped by women too. Its just that guys don't complain about it as much.

A good while back there was this nice looking high school boy that thought he was God's gift to women and made no secret of telling all the girls that. Of course, girls do get tired of hearing that stuff. Anyway, he and about 5 girls went to the beach together. When they were alone, the girls knocked him down, stripped him and raped him. Basically, he wanted sex, but he didn't want to be violated like that. No one ever called the law, but I am told he was never the same after that.

Dennis.

There are a lot of unfair prejudices out there. The assumption that sex = love is only one of them. As a single guy, I have to put up with a ton of prejudices against single men. According to society, the only reason for a man to stay single is because he likes to molest little children and is a pedophile sex offender.

I've never done anything like that, but because I'm a single man, people look at me and treat me like I have. As long as they don't find out I'm single, they are ok with me, but as soon as the subject comes up, they pull their kids away from me.

The wife of a long time friend of mine called me up and demanded to know what I did with her daughter after she was overdue. Of course, I had nothing to do with her missing daughter and she eventually turned up safe and sound. That only goes to show you the level of this kind of prejudice.

My friend told me that I should start wearing a wedding band so I would get better respect. I don't, but I am still considering it.

I was wondering if any other guys out there have experienced this kind of prejudice?

Dennis.

Debra,

Take it from another Deborah, some guys never "get it" I dated one knuckle dragger who insisted that if sex wasn't involved, we weren't in a relationship. It's sad when people equate physical acts with emotions. I wish you luck.

Debbie

There are a lot of debates on lots of subjects of what is genes and what is environment. They argue about gender identity, bipolar, inclination to learn math, whatever. Whenever I listen to these debates in general, the overall conclusions seem to be that genes play a role and kind of set your "defaults" to differing extents and then environment influences can shift things a bit.

The only thing I've come away with is that (as far as other nature vs. nurture debates are concerned). It's not all environment. It can be heavily weighted by genes but environment (especially very early in life during brain circuit wiring years) must be taken into account. I don't know if that carries over to our orientation. That just seems to be what they are concluding on other nature vs. nurture debates.

I do have some blood relatives who are also asexual for the most part.

I'm slowly discovering that for me it is that sexual people just don't have the right framework. I keep meeting people who essentially have the spiritual development of 3 year olds and think that sexual bonding and their near constant boob-sucking mild meld with mommie (former infant primary caregiver) are the same thing. Both men and women. I'm not into f*cking toddlers. It's an amazing thing to meet a fifty year old man who is still in his infant mirroring mind meld and has never left it and really thinks he shouldn't have to. He demands that I f*ck him.

What really turns me off about sex isn't sex. I think all of nature has a desire to integrate. And that expresses itself in a VARIETY of ways. I have a desire to know myself and have the different parts of me integrate into a more coherent loving "self". I have a desire to be connected to my community and go out and have a block party with my neighbors. Recently, someone stole my car and I've had tons of fun connecting with strangers and making friends with all the interesting everyday people I meet on the bus stop. Integration is as natural as the roots of a tree digging into the soil. There are so many languages and mediums through which to express and enjoy this larger integration and mirroring phenomenon.

I'm just profoundly turned off by people who demand that sex is the only "real" way to do it. These people are the ones who inevitably feel they have the right to tell me who I am, what I feel, how I think and how I "should" see the world. They engage me in non-stop selective perception campaigns trying to get me to be parts of themselves. It's like when a woman is cold so she runs around trying to make her children wear sweaters. It's bizarre. I can't be one integrated me trying to integrate with one integrated them. They are these weird infants trying to make me be another part of their brain or something. They blot me out to force me to be their projections of their own internal issues. When they want to "integrate" with me, what they REALLY want is to integrate with themselves ON me. Then they want me to do the same to them.

It's not relationship of any sort. It's contracts of mutual enslavement to accomodate each other's totally bizarre over-entitlements and ensure continued non-existant spiritual growth.

That is not sexy.

Maybe I'm not asexual. Maybe I'm just aware.

Nicole

Thank Lori,

I sincerely hope that your son is 100% hetero. I personally believe that asexuality is a curse. It certainly is in my case. But just because he is curious about girls anatomy, doesn't make him hetero. I was curious myself at that age.

May I suggest that you encourage him to be interested in the opposite sex and to try to bulldoze any obsticles in his way. At the same time, assure him that its OK if he doesn't like girls at all.

Dennis.

I have a 15 year old son, so I can probably answer this as well. He seems to be your typical hormone driven teenager, at least based on his numerous drawings of the female anatomy and the websites he likes to visit when he's home alone. Now, if he could get past the stage where he's too scared to talk to a girl, he'd be set. ;) Ofcourse, I guess I'm assuming that this isn't just an outward show, and he truly is interested in the opposite sex.

Yeah --- it's pretty bad.

But at least it's not as bad as it was a few centuries ago. I mean -- you're not being run out of time on a pike -- so *some* progress has been made in the way society views single males.

That's one of the flaws of most schools of feminsim -- they (as the name "feminism" implies) focus so exclusively on social prejudices against women -- that they begin to take on the assumption that the prejudices against men are either non-existent or inconsequential.

True -- nobody wants to be relegated to the role of a "spinster" if that person doesn't get married. But a spinster at least has a *place* in society. True -- it's not the most *coveted* place in society -- but it is an *accepted* place in society. It's far better than being seen as a kind of pariah, like what happens to single *men*.

Dennis Hawkins wrote:

There are a lot of unfair prejudices out there. The assumption that sex = love is only one of them. As a single guy, I have to put up with a ton of prejudices against single men. According to society, the only reason for a man to stay single is because he likes to molest little children and is a pedophile sex offender.

I don't think I have had problems in that matter.

My 'gang' is now largely formed of couples (it was not the situation 2 years ago) so I started feeling very bad. You know, couples go out together; if some couples arrange something like that, you can't invite singles.

Anyway the weirdness feeling was always with me and it was a bad feeling. Of course someone who is ok with oneself shouldnt mind but I am not ok with myself.

Anyway, it's past now, but that's a wholly different story :)

There are a lot of unfair prejudices out there. The assumption that sex = love is only one of them. As a single guy, I have to put up with a ton of prejudices against single men. According to society, the only reason for a man to stay single is because he likes to molest little children and is a pedophile sex offender.

I've never done anything like that, but because I'm a single man, people look at me and treat me like I have. As long as they don't find out I'm single, they are ok with me, but as soon as the subject comes up, they pull their kids away from me.

The wife of a long time friend of mine called me up and demanded to know what I did with her daughter after she was overdue. Of course, I had nothing to do with her missing daughter and she eventually turned up safe and sound. That only goes to show you the level of this kind of prejudice.

My friend told me that I should start wearing a wedding band so I would get better respect. I don't, but I am still considering it.

I was wondering if any other guys out there have experienced this kind of prejudice?

Dennis.

On 4 Jul 2005, 07:27 +00:00, Debbie Search said:

Debra,

Take it from another Deborah, some guys never "get it" I dated one knuckle dragger who insisted that if sex wasn't involved, we weren't in a relationship. It's sad when people equate physical acts with emotions. I wish you luck.

Debbie

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba/

[email protected]

Yahoo!; (spam); Yahoo! Mail

http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr

That's one of the flaws of most schools of feminsim -- they (as the name "feminism" implies) focus so exclusively on social prejudices against women -- that they begin to take on the assumption that the prejudices against men are either non-existent or inconsequential.

Men need to take responsibility to free themselves. There were some beginnings back in the day, when some men would go to some kind of bonding groups specifically to "reclaim their male identities" but I think it failed because men still didn't really "get" the whole freedom thing. The issue of how to give back some power to women while not relegating men to the back seat so to speak, is not an easy one, and it seems to me that the "old guard" never really wanted to participate because they thought it would turn them into sissies or something.

So don't blame it on the women. We had to work hard to get to where we are now, and still it seems that conservatives want to turn back the clock on all that. If you think it's bad now, wait and see if the Republicans win the White House _again_ and then you might have reason to cry.

Your best weapon is to vote, and vote consistently in every election no matter how small.

Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - [email protected]

Wow, what a relationship. Congratulations on getting out of it. There are nice, non-sexual men around. I hope you find a good lover, if you are looking for one.

all i can recommend is dont do this for very long- i did it for 23 yrs and it tore me down, made me an anxiety ridden mess ,and depressed, it made every aspect in my life different as i was always trying to avoid the sex act.......he is now gone and simple things like changing without locking myself in the bathroom. or looking to see where he was before entering rooms is now in the past and i feel FREE!! i thought i could handle it and i was wrong

Wow, what a relationship. Congratulations on getting out of it. There are nice, non-sexual men around. I hope you find a good lover, if you are looking for one.

all i can recommend is dont do this for very long- i did it for 23 yrs and it tore me down, made me an anxiety ridden mess ,and depressed, it made every aspect in my life different as i was always trying to avoid the sex act.......he is now gone and simple things like changing without locking myself in the bathroom. or looking to see where he was before entering rooms is now in the past and i feel FREE!! i thought i could handle it and i was wrong

If you love him, it seems that you do need to try something. I do not understand why people feel that missionary style sex is required. Why can't he masturbate? You could hold his hand while he gets off if he wants your loving presence.

Great to see all of the contributors here. Welcome to all. Congratulations to those who found their asexual mojo! BTW, I like the idea of aliens who plant semen. Better than other methods right? I think a sense of humor is wonderful.

Thank-you so much. Can you believe one lady said "open your legs ad put your mind on autipilot" She went as far as to say she would not mind if she was raped b/c her mind is stronger than that." What planet is she from? I feel bad for her.

Anyways, my husband may be coming around abit. We will have to see. They say they will try to change but then a week goes by... You know what I mean. Thanks again. The support helps so much! Debra

DEBRA (Who Else?)

---

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

I don't think I have had problems in that matter.

I haven't, except once when the monsters who used to live next door made a false accusation. Fortunately for me, they weren't very bright monsters. They accused me of secretively videotaping their children through my window (which, in fact, wouldn't even have been illegal as long as the children were outside in plain view), but they made the accusation at a time when I had three or four houseguests and hadn't been home alone without alibi witnesses in about a week, plus I didn't even have a working video camera in the house, so nothing came of it.

Never had anyone ask if I'm married when I was doing counseling internships with children or caring for special-needs children after school. It wasn't an issue when I signed up for foster parent training. People at Autreat know I'm single (also know I'm asexual), and parents were enthusiastic about my evening discussion sessions for children.

My 'gang' is now largely formed of couples (it was not the situation 2 years ago) so I started feeling very bad. You know, couples go out together; if some couples arrange something like that, you can't invite singles.

Why not?

Jim Sinclair jisincla@... www.jimsinclair.org

For one thing --- I wasn't "blaming women" -- nor was I suggesting that men *don't* need to take responsibility for male freedom.

But let's take the following things into account.

(1) Part of the very *regime* of repression against men is that men are considered (as you know) "unmanly" if we complain. Before this isn't taken care of, you are basically asking us to pull ourselves up by bootstraps that the majority of us don't have.

(2) I wasn't criticizing the fact that the feminist movement focuses *primarily* on women's issues. What I was criticizing is the fact that many schools (though not all of them) focus so *exclusively* on women's issues -- that they completely *belittle* men's issues -- or even write them off entirely.

(3) You mention that every step of the way, as women make progress towards equality -- there's a strong opposition to the progress. Have you considered that if the movement to equality were a bit less lop-sided, and there were a bit more in it for men too --- that that might help take the wind out of the opposition -- and intice more people to join up and *join* the march for equality?

tlshell@... wrote:

Men need to take responsibility to free themselves. There were some beginnings back in the day, when some men would go to some kind of bonding groups specifically to "reclaim their male identities" but I think it failed because men still didn't really "get" the whole freedom thing. The issue of how to give back some power to women while not relegating men to the back seat so to speak, is not an easy one, and it seems to me that the "old guard" never really wanted to participate because they thought it would turn them into sissies or something.

So don't blame it on the women. We had to work hard to get to where we are now, and still it seems that conservatives want to turn back the clock on all that. If you think it's bad now, wait and see if the Republicans win the White House _again_ and then you might have reason to cry.

Your best weapon is to vote, and vote consistently in every election no matter how small.