Haven for the Human Amoeba

Did I miss something? I don't remember anything about licking women's feet, just something about reflexology. I'm not being facetious here, I really just don't remember reading that, and I'm too lazy to go back and look.

I am too. And don't take me too literally, kissing ass isn't literal either:). Tell you what, I am going to take a break from the club for about a week or so. I'll see how this has progressed later. Judy clearly seems to want to engage these types of conversations and perhaps you do too. I respect what you're trying to do but maybe I don't fit in here. Not hurt feelings if so.

Hi, Shelamoph welcome to the club. I can definitely relate to the experience of experiencing sex drive without experiencing sexual attraction (in fact, it seems like that's the reported experience of every male in this group. Males, let me know if this isn't the case.) I'm intregued by the way that you talk about relationships, and the way that you want to form them, because it is very different than the way I've always thought about it. For one, you seem to focus exclusively on relationships with women. Why? This single-gender focus seems like one of the chief disadvantages of heterosexuality. I'm curious what you mean when you call relationships "dreamy", this is something that I haven't seen yet that much in the platonic relationship world. In general my relationships have been down-to-earth (compared to sexual ones, anyway), and with the way that you discuss emotion and soul it seems that you are building relationships off of a somewhat romantic model (focusing on physical contact and the expression of affection) as opposed to a platonic one. A more platonic model of close relationships, not focused on any one gender or on sensual expression of affection (eg massaging) has always made more sense to me.I don't have certain relationships which "bliss me out," they are fulfilling, certainly, but they don't really overwhelm me.

Okay-

I have yet to really respond to anything on here, but I thought that a couple of ya'll posed some questions that I could talk about. Firstly, I will have to say that talking about my asexuality is very hard. Only about 4 people know about my beliefs, sadly only one is a family member. On the other hand one happens to be a guy that asked me out and is now my best buddy. It is good that there are guys who will continue to be your friend even after finding out such things. The term "don't really date"....GOSH! how many times have i used that phrase! In fact just used it with a guy that has been kinda after me for a while now. On a side note, I mention my best friend is a guy to one of the guys I know, and he immediately assumes that me and my bud "dated." UM NO! Can i not have a best friend that is a guy without having a romantic relationship? Geesh. I also have yet to find one person who truly understands what I mean by asexual. Either they indicate that they are proud of my decision (what decision??? i did not make a decision!) or, like my mother, they link me to my sister, who has not had a romantic relationship but is out there dating, wanting a child, etc., etc. I do hope to get married in the future, but realise this is not likely given the fact that (at least at this point) I can't see myself ever having a "romantic/intimate" physical relationship. I guess one can dream, can't they??? I think the social norms of human sexuality and the ideas of conformity make it difficult to openly discuss asexuality. I also have to say that it kinda ticked me off that my asexuality has always been passed off as a phase or as a medical side affect. Okay, I'm off the medicine! I suppose it could be a phase, but I don't see that right now. As far as my relationships with guys reflecting my relationship with my father...WOW! DRK, I had not thought of that before. I really think you may be on to something there. There was never any physical or emotional link there. We have never gotten along. He does not hug me, kiss me, or say I love you. He has always tended to look down on me or disrespect me. Lately he has told me that I am a difficult child and the other children were never as bad as me. WOW! I have always been trying to please my parents. WHAT A BLOW! I am scarred for life! I had always been questioned whether my asexuality might be a product of the relationship between my mom and dad.There was never really any physical contact there or emotional love shown. HMMMM..... ANY COMMENTS OR THOUGHTS ON THIS? Which i suppose is a possibility as well. Will I ever really know? Probably not. OH well. I am asexual and at least I understand this and am living and functioning in a predominantly heterosexual world! GO ME!!!!! =)

-Ruth

You don't have to take a break, I just didn't understand why you were so quick to judge.

Agreed, don't leave robin. We definitely need to call people on their shit. Shelo- there was definitely some gendered in your posts. This doesn't make you a bad person, but its definitely important to think about.

Whew! You are one tough customer Ms. Robin! I found nothing at all antagonistic in his post yet somehow you've managed to paint a picture of him as a heterosexual anti-Christ. I'm not a gullible person (not usually anyway) so I'm rather shocked by your hostility. I've seen directors of women's studies programs who display less anger towards straight men than you did in this post.

You characterize him as being priveliged, but the very last thing that an asexual, and somewhat sensitive, male is in this world is priveliged. If anything he is ostracized and considered to be effete. I'm not here to coddle him or provide fodder for what you describe as masturbatory fantasies. Incidentally, he never once stated that he wanted to lick anyone's feet, that was your own bizarre projection. I have a fetish for men with nice hands and strong, deep voices, so sue me, we all have our curiousities. I also redirect my sexual energy into what I consider to be more productive activities. I don't understand why we can't differentiate between a sexual nature and the desire to carry out sexual acts.

Judy

Tell you what, I am going to take a break from the club for about a week or so. I'll see how this has progressed later. Judy clearly seems to want to engage these types of conversations and perhaps you do too. I respect what you're trying to do but maybe I don't fit in here. Not hurt feelings if so.<<

What types of conversations? About asexuality? Isn't this what the club is about? I am absolutely baffled as to why this man has generated such disdain in you. I certainly don't want you to take leave of the club. I value everyone's opinion here and I'm eager to know what has led each person to develop such opinions. I don't know why you should feel that you don't fit in here. He seems to have touched a nerve in you, and I'm somewhat interested in fleshing that out if you're willing to share.

Judy

Shelo- there was definitely some gendered in your posts.<<

Huh? What do you mean by this? I'm not being hostile, I genuinely want to know.

Judy

[...but they go to the depths of the earth to hide it, especially from other men.]

I believe you are making some stereotypical comments here, but since you are pulling from your own personal experience, that is understandable. So let me add to your personal experience, and perhaps broaden your understandings.

If anything, once I made the connection in my head, I became more vocal about myself. True, before I understood myself, I tried to hide myself. Critical to note that it was not out of shame, but out of respect for others (if that doesn't make sense, ask about it). Once I found this place, and read numerous websites by people from this place, making the connections in my head -- I suddenly felt very free! The moment of realization was quite opposite to what you describe. I was suddenly at peace with myself on the issue (which trust me, was the source of Much Grief to myself.) I was able to walk around in public, proud. Many things changed and I am a happier person today for it.

I think there are other men on this board who have no problem being vocal about it, but I am not going to speak for anyone but myself.

[hyper-heterosexual]

Nothing could be further from the truth in my case. If anything I was the opposite. I never talked about sex, even with my closest friends. They talked about it (of course) but when they did I just listened, or offered logical advice. I was essentially honest with my silence. I didn't have much to say, nor did I feel the need to say anything.

If anything, I was not ashamed of my lack of sexual desire, I was ashamed of *other* males and their inability to treat the opposite sex with respect. I was so deeply ashamed in fact, that for many years I went through an identity crisis of sorts, wishing I was not male.

I am past all of that now, it has been years since all of that happened in high-school and college. Since then I have learned to be proud of myself, and who I am. I no longer loath the male gender, and I see now that the only reason I loathed it was because I couldn't be it, in the normal sense of the word.

These are all things of history, perhaps the asexual men you are hanging out with are still in high-school, or college, and still going through their own personal identity crisis. If so, you cannot paint a picture of all asexual men from such a confused demographic, just as you cannot paint a picture of women from the confused demographic of high-school.

[That is what I believe the major barrier that an asexual women would have in finding an asexual male partner; not that men are never asexual, but when they are, the lengths they have to go through to prove themselves manly without sex means making up for it in other areas that would be even worse for the woman.]

My advice to you would be to keep looking, if that is what you are looking for. The asexual men you seek, very likely do not look asexual to you, because you are looking in the wrong direction.

[Am I being pessimistic?]

Entirely so! Hopefully my message to you does not come off as judgmental or harsh, but instead, a reason for optimism. If I am not within the depressed lines you've drawn here, than there are certainly others like me out there.

Your last question was very poignant. Discerning character over the Internet is an extremely difficult task, even for those who have grown up on it, like myself. The way we come across on this board and in other places is sometimes radically different than how we come across in the world. A classic example would be how I have said all of this to you in this message. If we were sitting at a table together, with a few other asexuals, and discussing this stuff in a restaurant. You would have said your bit (maybe) and I would have just silently taken it in. Maybe said a few words, but nothing more than that.

Ok, I'll answer your question a little indirectly. I'm somewhat torn, I guess. On the one hand I want to welcome Shelo and make this club a comfortable environment for him. My welcome/thoughts on his post were all put up earlier (the real thing that I don't get is the focus on relationships between men and women, maybe I'm misinterpreting this. Judy, up you'be been doing this in your posts too. I don't mean to point a finger, I just don't understand.)

What's bugging me is the wave of antifemenism (extrapolate:antiqueer) that's been going on in this forum. Robin was brave enough to speak out about something that made her uncomfortable, which is what we'r all going to have to be able to do in order to make our environment(s) understanding and accepting of asexuality. I'd argue that without the femenist movement we wouldn't be anywhere near able to realize our asexuality, we would be too caught up in how we "needed" the opposite gender to fulfill our role in society. Shelo, I'm not going to apologize for the contraversy that's surrounding your entrance, its bringing up alot of things which we need to discuss, but I stronlgy encourage you to keep posting.

Would say more but I have ta get to class..

-BRC

Well this has been a baptism by fire. Judging by many of the comments it sounds like I'm definitely in the wrong place. One or two have asked me to post again so this is it. All I shall do is describe how I got to this point of considering myself asexual and pose some of the questions I have about it and you can make-up be minds as to what and how you respond to it.

I have to admit that I have not found this group very warm which was something of a surprise to me as I was assuming a greater level of understanding than I receive from my heterosexual friends. Anyway the one exception to this is Judy. Thank-you Judy for being a lagoon in this parched landscape of life. And for anybody who is reading this and thinks here he goes again trying to pick someone up, well all I can say is I won't allow the fear of condemnation to prevent me from extending a small amount of emotional sentiment to another human being who justly deserves it.

With regard to the criticism that I talk a lot about myself, I have found through experience that you can put people more quickly at ease if you're willing to reveal something about yourself otherwise you are simply an unknown quantity to them so why should they trust you! It is all about breaking down barriers between people.

(continued)

I'm interested in a great deal of spiritually orientated subjects which includes healing. I'm also interested in understanding others and myself through astrology which I know to some of you this will seem quite stupid but for me it is a helpful tool. Well a I'm a Piscean and a very typical one at that, and in something I was reading the other day I saw this paragraph that I had not noticed before:

Regarding Pisces emotional make-up

'They are never egotistical in their personal relationships and give more than they ask from their friends. They are sexually delicate, in the extreme almost asexual, and most Pisceans would want a relationship in which the partner's mind and spirit rather than the body resonated with their own. Unfortunately a lover who courts them delicately and in marriage makes them unhappy can easily mislead them by a coarser sexuality than they expected. They are nevertheless intensely loyal and home loving and will remain faithful - though their dreamy and impractical natures do not fit them to keep a tidy and well-run house.'

It made reference here to the term 'asexual' which I'd never come across before. Naturally I was desirous to know what an asexual was. This took me to the following website:

<a href=http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/ target=new>http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/</a>

I felt I could identify with some of what has been said. So I rather quickly and enthusiastically joined this club in order to meet like-minded people and to find out whether I was really asexual or not.

But from this initial discussion I get the impression I was quite wrong . Anyway the following things I'm having trouble with:

1. Does asexuality disallow for gender preference. Some how by saying that you like female company over male company or vice-versa this implies that your relationship must be heterosexual in nature I'm not sure I understand why this should be. 95 per cent of my friends are male and I think they all wonderful but if I crave the company of a female friend then that implies I want sex with them. This is an enigma to me.

2. Asexuality does not seem to allow you to separate sexuality from affection or sensuality. Again it seems if you desire to have affection or feel sensual towards a person then this automatically excludes you from being asexual. In my friendships I have always employed all my senses including touch, with my male friends every time I see them I always will shake their hand because that physical touch strengthens our bond every time. There is much scope for non sexual touch.

3. Asexuality does not seem to have the any scope for a romantic model. I guess the assumption is if you feel romantic for some body then that automatically equates to wanting sex with them. Again this is an enigma to me. There are many situations in which two people will conduct a relationship where no physical contact can take place such as if one is in prison, or when people were divided by the Berlin Wall, etc. These people felt very much in love in a romantic way even though they realised that they will probably never be together in the flesh but that does not invalidate what they were feeling. OK these people were not voluntarily asexual. But cannot an asexual pair feel romantic toward each other without ever wanting to have sex?

What is an asexuals view of metasex or metasexuality which is the focus on non physical sex?

Well this traveller hears the next place calling but I'd like to leave you with this.

How do these words make you asexuals feel, is is simply irrelevant, can you perceived the beauty, do you think this is worth aspiring to ?

<a href=http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibran3.html target=new>http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibran3.html</a>

(It's not advocating marriage)

In this spirit of my own name 'Shelom' (hebrew spelling), peace be with you all. For those who have not found happiness I hope it seeks

Sorry I'm just getting use to the message length restriction. Ending of last post:

In this spirit of my own name Shelom (hebrew spelling), peace be with you all. For those who have not found happiness I hope it seeks you out and hold on to you.

Kind regards,

Shelomoph

(Sascha)

Shelom, hopefully you haven't left yet, I would like to be able to clarify my points. For starters the website that you looked at is mine so its seems that our notions of asexuality can't be TOO off. I didn't mean to imply by my post that you weren't asexual, or that this wasn't the space for you. Its just that your perspective on things was new to me, and I wanted some clarification. Its just never made sense to me to think about relationships in terms of a specific gender, or in terms of affection. My close relationships have always been about (to oversimplify) good conversation. We think about asexual relationships differently (I agree that a romantic model is possible without sexuality, I just don't see the point in it), I didn't mean to imply that the way you think about it is wrong. To respond to your points:

1. I'm don't mean to imply that wanting female friends means wanting to have sex with them, I just wanted to know why you felt a need to form relationships with women specifically. There are, of course, oodles of nonsexual reasons for this (eg. intergender nonsexual relationships are less "scripted" by society), I was curious which you felt applied to you.

2. There are plenty of nonsexual forms of sensuality, its just always seemed to me that they got in the way of my relationships. They seem necessary in sexual ones, but in my personal experience they've only opened the door to unnecessary expectations and attachement, so I've avoided them on the whole. Again, the way that you've experienced asexuality seems different.

3. See above. Romantic relationships are not necessarily sexual, but the model doesn't make sense to me if you take sexuality out of it. The psychology of sexual attraction creates a need for concepts like monogomy, but those things just don't seem to apply when taken out of a sexual context. So my question, I suppose, is "as an asexual person, what do you find appealing about romantic relationships?"

I've never heard of metasexuality, though it seems like the term "sex" would become more of an abstract metaphore than anything. What may be best described as metasex to a sexual person could easily be better described as a cross of affection and intellectual engagement and play to a nonsexual person.

It may be the queer politic in me speaking (in fact, it most definitely is), but I don't see a need to "aspire to" anything sexual. Sexuality is all well and good, fulfilling for many people who engage in it, but in my opinion there is no aspect of sexuality that we need to work to attain.

the real thing that I don't get is the focus on relationships between men and women, maybe I'm misinterpreting this. Judy, up you'be been doing this in your posts too. I don't mean to point a finger, I just don't understand.<<

Look, while I don't intend to have sex with anyone, I admit to being attracted to men. Thus, it stands to reason, that my posts would focus on heterosexual relationships when appropriate. However, it would be interesting to question if someone who is truly asexual would actually have a preference for a partner of a particular sex. What after all is the purpose of such a preference if it is not intended to lead to a certain type of copulation. But that's a philosophical question. My brain is wired to find men attractive for the purpose of romance or whatever. I never once thought that there was an overemphasis on heterosexual relationships in this group and if that is in fact the case then those who are homosexual, or who have no sexual preference at all (the genuinely asexual) ought to speak up. Gosh, aren't half the posts about the Queer Alliance crusade?

>>What's bugging me is the wave of antifemenism (extrapolate:antiqueer) that's been going on in this forum.<<

What on earth are you talking about? Are you calling Eiji a wave? Don't give him so much credit. He was probably the only person here who expressed sentiments that were "anti-feminist". And I don't like your extrapolation at all. There are some gay men who rank right down there with the worst misogynists. I simply don't know who you are criticizing here. I consider myself to be a feminist and I didn't see anything in Shelo's post to offend me. He likes women's feet, I like men's hands. To each his own... It used to be that feminists got riled by serious stuff like wage disparity and lack of access to contraception and abortion.

Judy

It's rather strange how much in-fighting can occur among a group of persons who generally agree with one another. However, that's why I find this group to be so interesting. We're not all alike, everyone here brings a different perspective on asexuality to the table. If you haven't noticed, we really haven't reached a consensus on what the term "asexuality" means. So far, all that we've agreed on is that none of us are having sex, and that such a decision has been made, for the most part, voluntarily. As far as I can see, you should be more than welcome here.

While I also tend to have a somewhat dreamy and romantic nature, I'm a lot less comfortable talking about that side of myself than I am with discussing my adamant anti-sex, anti-marriage, anti-procreation stances. I suppose that I've always thought it was too stereotypical for a woman to be romantic, and I almost always do an about-face when confronted with the status quo. I'm also not a candlelight and roses type romantic. So, it's often difficult to explain to others what I mean by romance. However, you do a wonderful job of doing just that and I would be very upset to have you leave the group. Please reconsider, and understand that we're all actually a lot more alike than some of us are willing to admit. If you do decide to leave though, I wish you all the best and I hope that you never lose either your strength of spirit or the strength of your convictions.

Judy

I agree that a romantic model is possible without sexuality, I just don't see the point in it<<

Sigh...this way of thinking just about sums up why I will probably never find a life-long partner. It assumes that sex is essenially the end-all and be-all of intimate interpersonal relationships. One could say that a person's attraction to a particular sex is every bit as trivial or profound as one's attraction to a person who can engage in good conversation. It's just another aspect of an individual which either draws us toward or repels us from that person. I can be awed by someone's brilliance and still may not get a thrill from kissing or hugging that person. It just so happens that some of us get more of a thrill from being with one sex as opposed to another. Just as you would get more of a thrill from being around an eloquent person rather than from being around someone who is reticent.

Judy

Firstly thank-you for responding, and for providing your website.

In relation to your first point. I probably cannot give you a rational explanation, this one is a more intuitive explanation. It seems that my emotional world view is not by itself in glorious Technicolor (complete), if I then supplement this with a female's emotional world view it does become glorious Technicolor. I know that doesn't sound very scientific but nonetheless it is one way I can describe it. I hope perhaps to build a better explanation than this.

Point two , what do you mean by 'they got in the way of my relationships'? And when you say 'unnecessary expectations and attachments'could it be not so much that sensuality is at fault but how we react to sensuality? I don't see that expectation and attachment should automatically be created from sensuality.

Your point three, I supposed to me this is a bit like asking why do we need art or music. Rationally we might say that the only purpose in this to provide cultural colour, to our society. But I do think our brains in their pursuit of evolution prompt us to explore these nuances of our higher brain function in order to develop them. I suppose I see 'romance' as encouraged by the brains psyche in order to develop higher level brain functions. It is interesting to me that people who experience romance also often experience heightened states of creativity and inventiveness. A lot of art and music has been created when people have been in these states. Just as physical sexual relationship may be creative in a physical sense i. e. by conceiving a child (but not limited to that), to me romance seems to be an emotional and mental creative process where two human beings create something that is a unique composite representation of each other. The brain in return for attempting this evolution rewards us with feel good sensations of happiness (blissed out), we are then more inclined to continue. The difficulty I have is understanding why I don't seem to be able to engage in romance with non-women if it strictly has no sexual component. Perhaps this is social proofing. Sorry you are probably still wondering why bother.

Within the Greek language there are several words denoting the meaning of love and even then they cannot really express fully what a complex emotion it is. One word they used was'Eros', this was more lust then love and it was certainly associated with the physical expression of love through sexual intercourse. The greatest form of love was denoted by the word 'Agape', this being unconditional love. Love that could be expressed without any desire for anything in return. Cultural figures such as Jesus Christ and Buddha are personifications of this type of love. I think romance comes somewhere in between these two extremes so when I say to'aspired to'I mean developing our natures in order to ultimately achieve this sense of love.

Hmm.. ok. First off, let me apologize for my use of the word queer. I've kind of been on a political high with all of the stuff I've been doing recently, and I the term has been all over my thinking, but the political definition is pretty specific to the environment that I'm in. I'll try to stick to better-defined terms in the future. Thanks for the clarifications Judy and Shelom. I'm really curious about this idea of nonsexual gender orientation, I know that you said its difficult to describe. And Judy, I don't think that gender orientation makes people less asexual, without explanation it seemed like a carryover heterocentered ideas of relationships (a "real" relationship must be romantic and a "real romantic" relationship must be between a man and a woman.) Sorry if I jumped on you, this has just been a thing I've been thinking alot about recently. Our culture makes alot of assumptions about the way that "valid" intimate relationships look. One of those assumptions is that such relationships are sexual (The dating v. "just friends" thing), and there are a whole slew of stigmas that exist around sexual relationships. You can just take the sex out, there are certainly enough other ways to say that you love someone, but is the ideal for an intimate nonsexual relationship necessarily going to just be as close as we can get to a sexual one? The psychology of romantic relationship is, heavily affected by the process of sexual attraction. It certainly works for asexual people, but why should we limit ourselves to it? Who says that romantic relationships are the end all and be all of human relationships? In my experience my closest and most fulfilling relationships have looked nothing like romantic relationships (I can describe these more in depth, but I'm low on space and time). Judy, I'm also looking for a lifelong partner, but it seems like romance just gets in the way of what I'm after. I don't want a relationship that makes me feel intense emotions, I want a relationship where I intuitively understand someone to a minute level. I want love to be the byproduct, not the focus. Again, this is just me, further explanation when I have time.

Thank-you Judy for your encouragement. There is certainly a lot of energy in this group. :-) It is reassuring to know that the definition of 'asexuality' has not been set in concrete. Indeed we are united on some fronts .

I have to remind myself that efforts in human understanding can at times be stormy but this does not justify giving up the quest. I am desirous to continue participation in this forum.

I'm interested in your anti-marriage and anti-procreation stance. I'm in full agreement with these tenets but maybe we arrived at them via different reasons. My own view of marriage is that it was artificially created to limit freedom, enable control and legalise human ownership. As an institution that in itself is justification for its abolition. Well this is in my humble opinion anyway. :-)

With regards to anti-procreation well I think if we cannot look after the 30,000 children that die each day needlessly from famine and poverty are we really responsible enough to create more? Children are also brought forth for many irresponsible and selfish reasons.

I agree Judy the 'status quo' must always be challenged and not blindly accepted.

I have been told by many men who say that you can simply keep a woman'sweet'by buying flowers each week and yet they think they can sit on their arse at home and do-nothing whilst the wife cooks, cleans, raises the kids. Then the same men wonder why a their relationships finally fall apart. It is a sorry state of affairs! Romance can occur in the mundane things, predicting what is required in a situation in a practical way and then lending assistance without any desire for anything return can in itself be a fine gesture of selfless romance. I hope I did not use to much ambiguity there. :)

Thanks again Judy for your support, I'd be happy to stay around to share some more thoughts.

Shelomoph

<<Does asexuality disallow for gender preference. Some how by saying that you like female company over male company or vice-versa this implies that your relationship must be heterosexual in nature I'm not sure I understand why this should be.>> Somewhere on the web I found a web site that discussed the degrees of attraction, or something to that effect. If I could find the site again, I'd give the address, but I can't so I won't. Nearly all of the friends I've ever had have been female, but I wouldn't say that I'm sexually attracted to any of them. I'm homo-affectionate, if there is such a term. I will sooner associate with a woman than a man.

<<Asexuality does not seem to have the any scope for a romantic model. I guess the assumption is if you feel romantic for some body then that automatically equates to wanting sex with them. Again this is an enigma to me.

Can I hear an "Amen, brother"? I've never understood why people associate romance with sex. I've had many relationships that I would call romantic, but they didn't involve any sort of sexual contact, so these people were never considered boy- or girlfriends.

Hmm.

<<I can be awed by someone's brilliance and still may not get a thrill from kissing or hugging that person. >>

Ok, you had me up until that point :)

If I'm in awe of someone, and they seem to appreciate me, I call that "romantic". There's more to it than that, though. I'd have to write a book to explain it. I would never, though, kiss these people, and I wouldn't hug them under most circumstances. I don't really feel a "thrill" the same way I think you're referring. I think I've actually felt this thrill, usually with men, and never long-lasting. I don't find that at all romantic.

okay...i'm not an extremely vocal member of this club, but I thought i would put my 2 cents (probably more like 1 cent) worth in here. Shelom, I will admit that astrology fascinates me as well. The paragraph about Pisces is very interesting. I too am a Pisces, definately some truth for me in there. I along with others in the group hope that you continue to hang around. Nothing you have said has offended or upset me in any way (but I don't believe that much of anything anyone has said has upset me), I guess I just feel that we are all here to express our views openly and honestly and learn from each other. I come here to see what others have to say about asexualitly and gain knowledge and a sense of belonging from others' experiences. I encourage everyone to stay. Just take what you want from each post and leave what you don't want or like. Perhaps this sounds trite, but CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?!?! =) Oh well, I look forward to reading everyone's posts in the future and learning about others as well as myself.

-Ruth

Oh and to make something clear I am not saying that there is anything wrong with a good, friendly debate!!!! It's good clean fun and can truly be informative. =)

Judy, I'm also looking for a lifelong partner, but it seems like romance just gets in the way of what I'm after. I don't want a relationship that makes me feel intense emotions, I want a relationship where I intuitively understand someone to a minute level. I want love to be the byproduct, not the focus.<<

Some persons would consider the type of relationship which you describe to be romantic in nature, I certainly do. But how realistic is it minutely understand a person and not feel intensely about that person. Am I to believe that you wish to have life-long relationship with someone whom you know perfectly but only feel lukewarm about?

Judy