Haven for the Human Amoeba

Hmm, I'm not sure of that. I've had many female friends, and only a couple of them have been lesbians, and only one of those friendships with a lesbian was one I'd call "romantic". She got a really annoying girlfriend and eventually went crazy. As a result, she and I are not on speaking terms, but that's beside the point.

I do think that it's difficult (if not impossible) to have an asexual relationship with a person attracted to your gender, though. It just doesn't work.

I agree with what GT said, though, about straight women not feeling comfortable with "romantic" relations with other women. That could, perhaps, be why the straight women I've befriended have done catty things to me for the sake of a man. Perhaps they feel the need to redeem themselves, prove they aren't a lesbian or something. My best friend in high school was a very straight girl, and she always had lots of boyfriends. That did not change the general perception of our friendship; most people thought that she and I were a couple.

On another note: I have recently befriended a straight guy, (which I don't do terribly often) and now I'm VERY nervous about it because he has made a couple of comments about how we should do something "just the two of us" (we go out in groups sometimes). I don't even want to talk about it, and since I usually avoid any kind of dating-type situation, I don't even know how to deal with it. Aaaah.

I hear you on complexities of forming romantic relationships with sexual people, just because a nonsexual romantic relationship feels as unnatural to them as a sexual one feels to us. I agree with girltech that this just might not be possible. A nonsexual relationship would feel too confined for the sexual person, and a sexual one just wouldn't make sense to the asexual person. So can we only form romantic relationships with other asexual people? I guess this is one of the reasons why I'm for taking the emphasis off of romantic relationships, they seem so danmed invoncenient (even in the "normal" het context, such as Shelo's marraige) compared to the intimacy I get from nonromantically being friends with people, which has suited me fine for my life so far. So to answer Shelo's question, I'm in tons of asexual relationships. Especially now that I'm pretty out around campus, sexual tension is all but neutralized (except where people don't believe me and it is persistant and annoying), and I don't have to step lightly around sexual attraction the way I used to. Being "unnatractive but interesting" was something that I spent alot of time crafting in highschool, and becoming comfortable enough with sexual attraction to deal with if it showed up in my relationships. I d on't know, in terms of having close relationships with sexual people, I've found that one of the things which helped deal with tension was that I would tell them about asexuality. It was (is) something that I needed to talk about and figure out, and it balanced out all of the boy/girl related troubles that my friends were having. On hetero-affinity, I've found that until college I mostly formed closer relationships with girls than with boys, though I chalk this up more to social forces than natural affinity. It's always felt like there is a "script" that I was sticking to in my relationships with (straight) boys, we had certain things we could talk about and things that were personal or emotional were definitely not on the list. There was a "script" for my relaitonships with girls to, one which said that those relationships had to be sexual, but I knew how to throw that out the window so those relationships were freer to develop. The thing was, if they started to become extremely affection (e.g. "looking romantic") they invariably fell apart in messy ways. So, lacking asexual people to form relationships with, I've been forced to consist entirely on nonromantic relationships and have found that they work just fine, which is why I feel like focusing on romantic relationships between asexuals is, in a way, missing the point. We don't have to be limited by the romantic model, so why should we be? I'm not saying that we can't or shouldn't form relationships like that, just that we shouldn't think that we have to.

It would be harder for me to have a "romantic" relationship with a girl because I am a girl. First off it would be hard to find a girl that wasn't a lesbian who was interested in a "romantic" relationship with another girl . I mean come on, how many non-lesbians would be comfortable showing affection toward another woman.<<

I'm afraid that I have no idea what you're talking about here. Women are notorious (?) for being amazingly affectionate toward one another without desiring sexual relationships. Close female friendships are almost always of the pseudo-romantic if not genuinely romantic sort. And somehow this is much more socially acceptable than male-male affection. I can walk arm in arm down the street with my sisters and noone even blinks.

>>I guess this is why many of our members lean toward the opposite sex (not to mention we are conditioned that way). Even many gays go through the period where they try desperately to be hetro!<<

Frankly, I think that in this day and age it's almost more acceptable to be blatantly homosexual than it is to be asexual, asexuality being viewed as unnatural for the human species, while at least homosexuals are in possession of their libidos. So, since most of us are willing to admit our asexuality, I don't think than any of us are desperate to project a socially acceptable heterosexual image.

Judy

I agree that it is more acceptable for women to show affection towards one another, but I'd say that's a far cry from female-female romantic relationships being generally accepted. The code for women (as I've always understood, though my understanding is probably not as good), is that friendships are all well and good but (romantic) relationships with men MUST COME FIRST. No questions asked, according to social definitions female-female relationships are a place where women can get together and talk about men. If relationships between women begin to (forbid) REPLACE their relationships with men then there is a good deal of social backlash.

On acceptability: I think that it is extremely difficult to compare homo and asexuality. Asexual people aren't considered a threat the way that lesbians and gay men are, we're not "sexually perverse" and people aren't afraid of us. They just don't understand us (and for the most part haven't thought to or don't want to.) I don't think that asexual people are necessarily hated or feared, we're just not believed.

As for projecting a heterosexual image, I know that I still do, even as the Out and About Asexual on campus. Self identifying as asexual is one thing, but until people have some idea of what that MEANS we're going to get slapped with (almost)the same hetero-assumptions as everyone else. This is unfortunate, but is also gives us alot of the priviledge that straight people are afforded in our society. True, we're all willing to admit our asexual to OURSELVES, but how many of us are comfortable doing so to our friends and family? The larger community? How many feel that they are comfortable enough with what exactly asexuality MEANS to explain it to everyone? I still feel like I'm not, entirely.

-BRC

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Ghandi

At the risk of boring those of you in the celibate groups where I've already posted this invitation...here it is again.

Who on this list and lives in the SF Bay Area would like to hang out sometime either one-on-one (as friends) or in a group? I'd like to organize some activities, unless that's someone else's territory.

I'll go there...in my head.

Oh no drk, it is starting! You meet and find that he or she is awesome to hang out with and then they "want to do stuff alone" and then they drop the bomb. They give you the ultimatum: sex or lose the friendship. I have lost countless "friends" this way. I do have to admit that I really don't believe that their intention is sex in most cases at first but then their feelings evolve and sex is the only way that they know how to express them. Weither the intention was sex or not, it still isn't pretty. You hate to lose the friendship but there is no way to fulfil their needs because while you are still at friendship they have progressed to a higher stage and seemingly can't be fulfilled without sex (the only thing that john gray ever wrote that made any sense, the 'stages' of relationships stuff). You would think that the friendship is enough but to a sexual person with sexual "needs", it's not. It's like they feel like the relationship can't progress without sex so they move on. This has been my experience and mine alone. I hope that you find yours to be different but the begingings are frighteningly paralell to my own.

--GT

PS. On another note, I have been disqualified from the Air Force and I can almost garuntee it is because they think I am a lesbian. I was asked if I liked men (in the sexual way of course) and I said that they were okay as friends. I almost knew they would ask if I liked women next but of course if you don't like men you MUST be a lezzy.

You've been disqualified from the air force?! Aaaah! I'm sorry. That's terrible!

For one thing, I think it's ridiculous that they asked you that in the first place. Doesn't the old "don't ask, don't tell" thing apply to the air force? I mean, if they can't ask if you're a lesbian, why should they be allowed to ask if you're straight? That's just wrong. Grr, I've got a thing or two to say to them. Even if that's not the reason you were disqualified (but you're right, it probably is), it's still unnerving that they would ask.

PS. On another note, I have been disqualified from the Air Force and I can almost garuntee it is because they think I am a lesbian. I was asked if I liked men (in the sexual way of course) and I said that they were okay as friends. I almost knew they would ask if I liked women next but of course if you don't like men you MUST be a lezzy.<<

Boy did you miss a prime opportunity for some double speak. When they asked that question, you should have replied with an emphatic "yes". I mean, after all, you do like guys, and you certainly didn't need to qualify that statement with the "just as friends" component. If the Air Force is going to be that shady in its dealings with you, you should have treated them in the same fashion. By the way, don't they have to give you some sort of a reason for their disqualification. It is simply outrageous for the armed forces to be disqualifying persons for absurd reasons when recruitment rates are at their lowest point ever.

Judy

I'm not one to drop bombs like that. The reason I made the invitation is because I want to be around people that are unlikely to drop one one me.

Yeah I thought the same thing about the don't ask, don't tell thing. I have no idea why they asked but they asked if I had dated, had sexual experiences and all sorts of weird stuff that was none of their biz (of course the answer was no to all those questions, I'm not ashamed of it). Yes, they are supposed to send me a letter as to why I was disqualified and I can't wait to see it. And guys, relax I have it covered. I was declaired "fit for duty" on both consults and don't think that I don't have a copy of those records. Give me more credit than that! ;-) So I am appealing to the sergeon general and with the medical records I have it should all be just fine. You just can't screw with an asexual *wink, wink*. Anyway, gotta go start the turkey so it will be ready in time. Happy Thanksgiving all.

--GT

Sadly, asexuals/celibates are so few and far between that it seems none live close enough to any others to meet in person. At least this has been my experience.

I found I've been able to meet a few people who asexual identify in person, generally after meeting them on the internet. The interesting thing that I've found is that in talking publicly about asexuality and sexual intensity this semester at Wes I've had people walking up to me who, even if they don't identify as asexual identify with alot of the stuff I'm saying about it. The reason why asexuals are so hard to come by, in my opinion/experience, is not that we are few and far between but that most asexual people don't have the conceptual vocabulary to think of themselves that way.

Would people be interested if I were to put a multithread forum up on AVEN? I feel like one of the unfortunate thing about this board is that its difficult to have multiple discussions going at once...

Hells Yes

Hey just wanted to stop in. Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. Incidently my sister came out on Thanksgiving: she's asexual! It was great. BRC, that would be cool to do with your website. Maybe it will go over better than the time we tried to get the chat room going. Well time to go. Later.

--GT

Your sister came out? Yay! Good for her. Heheh. Maybe it is genetic.

i'm so glad i found you guys.

Good to see you too!! Feel free to ask any questions/etc. I know for me it was cool to finally find an online community. We're in a bit of a lull right now, conversation-wise (hopefully to start up again), but generally this group is pretty active. I'm curious, what brought you to this forum?

i followed a little angel here.

Do you have advice on being more comfortable about talking about my celibacy? It does seem that we are few and far between when I'm not vocal about it.

GT,

How did everyone react to your sister's coming out? How did she start talking about?

I've had, overall, a pretty successful time coming out. I'm currently recognized and (reasonably) accepted by my campus. My advice: get extremely comfortable with exactly what you mean when you say "celibacy" (or in my case, asexuality.) "Coming out", for asexuals anyway, is a process of explanation more than anything else, and unless you are comfortable enough with yourself and your sexuality you won't be comfortable explaining it to other people. I've found that the more confidently I discuss asexuality the more credence people give me. So what exactly do you mean by "celibacy?" Do you choose not to be sexual, do you just find that you're not compelled to be? Do you feel like this is a "phase" and you're going to become a sexual person eventually? Would you say that you experience sex drive? So on and so forth. Just some stuff to get you thinking..

-DJ

hey jogirl. welcome. how's it going?

thanks for the advice DJ.

lol at Alex the cat.

Been searching the internet for awhile trying to find some information on myself. There isn't much out there. I guess I would classify myself as an asexual although I did not think that there was such thing in a human being.

I never had any interest in girls, relationships, sex, even in high school. Girls would try to flirt and stuff but I didn't pick up on it. My friends would always ask me if I needed to be beaten over the head with a hammer for me to get it. I guess I didn't get the message because I really didn't care.

It wasn't until I was 21 when I began my first relationship with a woman. And of course the sex was something that came along as well. After the first time I had sex the first thing I thought of afterwards was that it was a waste of an hour that could have been used for something better.

I do like women though and I do like a relationship but not the sex. There are other ways to be "intimate" if I can use that word.

I haven't had any bad experiences that would turn me off sex, I just don't have any desire for it. When I think of a woman I try to think of how intelligent she is rather than what she is like in bed.

I guess I am a little wierd or at least feel that way. It is accepted that men are very interested in sex and that if they are not then they're wierd. I'll stick with being wierd.

Unfortunately I live in Canada so anything that is not "normal" tends not to be discussed but I would like to get a Canadian group of asexual people talking and maybe we can find some friendships.

Enough of my rambling. I still have many messages on this group to read.

All right- It's finally that time of Visibility group- I get to write up an asexual manifesto. Even if I was strictly asexual, I still would feel like my experience alone wasn't enough. however, I have a wealth of non-imperial evidence at my fingertips- you guys. some of you have websites, and many good points have been made here. So when I write this up, It would be of great aid if some of you would let me use your stuff.

If you would like to contribute, post a message here saying-"We will be heard! I add my voice to the mass so they may here us louder and farther away" or just- "go ahead and use my stuff" Any suggestions on points to focus on are welcome as well, and I'll probably post the whole thing for review. I plan on focusing on asexuality as a sliding scale of libido, how life without sex works, and the difference between asexuality and voluntary celibacy.

Thanks in advance!