What makes the "zing"?
Nom wrote:
<When you are talking about such feelings as being "in love" I still think you have to ask "why". I mean if those feelings you hold for that person are more intense than those which you would normally have for just your close friends and family members-- then what exactly accounts for that extra "zing" of emotion? Sure... you may not be interested in physically participating in a sexual act with this special someone but that doesn't mean that psychologically there isn't some sort of sexual connection there! After all, how else can one account for the extra intense feelings?>
OK, I want you to prove to me that an extra "zing" or intense feeling is sexual. Please explain to me why it is sexual.
Amy
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
Nom wrote:
<When you are talking about such feelings as being "in love" I still think you have to ask "why". I mean if those feelings you hold for that person are more intense than those which you would normally have for just your close friends and family members-- then what exactly accounts for that extra "zing" of emotion? Sure... you may not be interested in physically participating in a sexual act with this special someone but that doesn't mean that psychologically there isn't some sort of sexual connection there! After all, how else can one account for the extra intense feelings?>
OK, I want you to prove to me that an extra "zing" or intense feeling is sexual. Please explain to me why it is sexual.
Amy
Hi Amy
<you wrote>:
OK, I want you to prove to me that an extra "zing" or intense feeling is sexual. Please explain to me why it is sexual.
Well.. Amy, how else would YOU explain and account for it?
Do you have any ideas?
I doubt it.
Before discrediting my theory because you need "proof" try coming up with your own explanation for this extra "zing".
I can very easily explain and defend my position on this topic, but can you?
Nom
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
What happens if you're opening presents on Christmas morning and you get something you REALLY like? Sometimes you get goosebumps or euphoric, or very happy. Is *that* sexual? I don't think so.
Grace,
While you are trying to draw parallels, your topic matter concerning Christmas presents is hardly relevant to the emotions expressed between two people.
Nom
What happens if you're opening presents on Christmas morning and you get something you REALLY like? Sometimes you get goosebumps or euphoric, or very happy. Is *that* sexual? I don't think so.
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< While you are trying to draw parallels, your topic matter concerning Christmas presents is hardly relevant to the emotions expressed between two people. >>
It's quite relevant to me. I opened my presents this morning and the joy and happiness was much like that I find with romantic partners.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< Hahaha! Did you drink too much eggnog at Christmas dinner? >>
Now you're being arrogant. No, I don't drink.
<<To say that romantic feelings and Christmas excitement are identical emotions, is about as illogical as saying brocolli and lettuce are identical, just because they both happen to be vegetables.
Nope, there's a connection for me. When I open a present and am surprised and happy about it, it's like the same way my heart flutters when I see someone I love again. If you think this is stupid, that's fine. But I have similar feelings in the euphoria and happiness I recieve from spending time with a romantic lover, seeing them at the door, etc, as I do when I recieve presents on Christmas morning.
And if you think that's stupid, that's fine. But kindly don't tell me to not be "ignorant" or suggest I have to be drunk. That's very rude and arrogant.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< While you are trying to draw parallels, your topic matter concerning Christmas presents is hardly relevant to the emotions expressed between two people. >>
It's quite relevant to me. I opened my presents this morning and the joy and happiness was much like that I find with romantic partners.
Grace,
It's quite relevant to me. I opened my presents this morning and the joy and happiness was much like that I find with romantic partners.
Don't be ignorant Grace.... it's not the same thing
Nom
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Re: What makes the "zing"?
<< Don't be ignorant Grace.... it's not the same thing
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
Yeah, I agree, the "zing" is a lot like how I used to feel about christmas. Slightly different, but there's a definite connection (the feelings for people tend to be more complex (and hopefully more important), but the feelings are at least related in nature. And I think I said it once before, but I'm again astounded at the arrogance here. I can't believe anyone here would try to tell anyone else how tanother person feels about sex or gender or whatever... since probably all of us here would hate it if the sexual people tried to tell us how we really felt. Its like a sexual person telling us "oh come on, you just need the right person" or something.
<< Don't be ignorant Grace.... it's not the same thing
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: What makes the "zing"?
Yeah, I agree, the "zing" is a lot like how I used to feel about christmas. Slightly different, but there's a definite connection (the feelings for people tend to be more complex (and hopefully more important), but the feelings are at least related in nature. And I think I said it once before, but I'm again astounded at the arrogance here. I can't believe anyone here would try to tell anyone else how tanother person feels about sex or gender or whatever... since probably all of us here would hate it if the sexual people tried to tell us how we really felt. Its like a sexual person telling us "oh come on, you just need the right person" or something.
pessimisticgrace@a... said:<< Don't be ignorant Grace.... it's not the same thing
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
While I see some folks acting ignorant... I don't see anyone being arrogant.
And BTW, who says we all have to agree with each other? After all, what happened to freedom of speech and freedom of opinion?
Nom
Yeah, I agree, the "zing" is a lot like how I used to feel about christmas. Slightly different, but there's a definite connection (the feelings for people tend to be more complex (and hopefully more important), but the feelings are at least related in nature. And I think I said it once before, but I'm again astounded at the arrogance here. I can't believe anyone here would try to tell anyone else how tanother person feels about sex or gender or whatever... since probably all of us here would hate it if the sexual people tried to tell us how we really felt. Its like a sexual person telling us "oh come on, you just need the right person" or something.
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< Don't be ignorant Grace.... it's not the same thing
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
Grace,
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
Hahaha! Did you drink too much eggnog at Christmas dinner?
To say that romantic feelings and Christmas excitement are identical emotions, is about as illogical as saying brocolli and lettuce are identical, just because they both happen to be vegetables.
Nom
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...if it ain't got that zing
Grace,
I'm being honest. You may not agree, but it is the same feeling for me.
Hahaha! Did you drink too much eggnog at Christmas dinner?
To say that romantic feelings and Christmas excitement are identical emotions, is about as illogical as saying brocolli and lettuce are identical, just because they both happen to be vegetables.
Nom
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My opinion: I've spent a considerable amount of time looking into this topic, but my opinion is, of course, still just that. Biochemically there is a certain phenominon surrounding new sexual partners. This is called "shiny new lover" syndrom in parts of the polyam community, and lasts for a certain number of touches. So to that extent there is a certain "zing" added specifically in sexual situations. HOWEVER, it seems extremely extremely unlikely that this nerochemical phenominon entirely defines the emotional structure of romantic sexual relationships. Romantic relationships, complete with "zing", can often take place proir to sexual contact, and cna last far longer than the above phenominon would allow. SO, while sexual neurochemistry plays a factor, I would argue that on the whole it's a small one. The difference comes in a more culturally mandated difference between sexual and nonsexual relationships. We're taught to think about these relationships very differently, and I think that it's here that the emotional "zing" comes from. In our culture sexual relationships are generally more emotionally intense than nonsexual ones. Why? Because in sexual relationships people are encouraged to focus on their partner, whereas in nonsexual relationships they're encouraged to focus on collective activity. What do friends do? They hang out, they do something together or have a conversation, focusing on whatever it they're doing or talking about. Relationships build becuase people get used to being around each other. In sexual relationships people go out to dinner (to overgeneralize) and gaze into each other's eyes. (Sexual) lovers focus on what they feel TOWARDS their partner, where platonic friends focus on what they are doing (and feeling) WITH their partner. Of course the emotions are more intense in romantic sexual relationships, they spend half of their time mulling over them. Now is there any reason that we, as asexuals, can't? Not especially, it's just somewhat unfamiliar ground. Sexual people like to wrap everything up nicely with concepts of monogomy, which we can't do. How do we know which of all of our friendships is "the one" (as having more than one can be a headache, as any polyamarous person will tell you)? Sexual people deal with the problem nicely by saying "the one I'm fucking", but we don't have that luxery. Not only that but we're stuck in a world where most people aren't interested in forming these sorts of romantic relationships with us unless we're interested in sex, which makes the "zing" hard to come by for us asexuals, but by no means impossible. Not to say that all of us are looking for it, but it seems like a good portion of us are, me included.
Sorry for the rant, and I hope this is on topic. I picked up halfway through the conversation.
-Lazarus
http://www.asexuality.org
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< You know there are people who can act like they are drunk... even if they don't drink. >>
I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me I was acting like I was drunk just because I don't agree with you.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] ...if it ain't got that zing
<< For example, the relationship between parent and child is one of the most intense relationships in the human world when you factor in the paternal and maternal instinct. >>
It is quite similar to parent/child relationships for me. But that would be kind of gross with your parents, so I feel a similar way with people who are accessible.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: What makes the "zing"?
<< While I see some folks acting ignorant... I don't see anyone being arrogant. >>
It's pretty arrogant to tell me not to be ignorant when I'm expressing honest feelings.
Well it's also pretty arrogant to tell people they shouldn't be interested in only attractive people, Grace.
Touche!
Nom
<< While I see some folks acting ignorant... I don't see anyone being arrogant. >>
It's pretty arrogant to tell me not to be ignorant when I'm expressing honest feelings.
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< Hahaha! Did you drink too much eggnog at Christmas dinner? >>
Now you're being arrogant. No, I don't drink.
<<To say that romantic feelings and Christmas excitement are identical emotions, is about as illogical as saying brocolli and lettuce are identical, just because they both happen to be vegetables.
Nope, there's a connection for me. When I open a present and am surprised and happy about it, it's like the same way my heart flutters when I see someone I love again. If you think this is stupid, that's fine. But I have similar feelings in the euphoria and happiness I recieve from spending time with a romantic lover, seeing them at the door, etc, as I do when I recieve presents on Christmas morning.
And if you think that's stupid, that's fine. But kindly don't tell me to not be "ignorant" or suggest I have to be drunk. That's very rude and arrogant.
Grace,
And if you think that's stupid, that's fine. But kindly don't tell me to not be "ignorant" or suggest I have to be drunk. That's very rude and arrogant.
Hahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha!
You know there are people who can act like they are drunk... even if they don't drink.
Nom
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] ...if it ain't got that zing
My opinion: I've spent a considerable amount of time looking into this topic, but my opinion is, of course, still just that. Biochemically there is a certain phenominon surrounding new sexual partners. This is called "shiny new lover" syndrom in parts of the polyam community, and lasts for a certain number of touches. So to that extent there is a certain "zing" added specifically in sexual situations. HOWEVER, it seems extremely extremely unlikely that this nerochemical phenominon entirely defines the emotional structure of romantic sexual relationships. Romantic relationships, complete with "zing", can often take place proir to sexual contact, and cna last far longer than the above phenominon would allow. SO, while sexual neurochemistry plays a factor, I would argue that on the whole it's a small one. The difference comes in a more culturally mandated difference between sexual and nonsexual relationships. We're taught to think about these relationships very differently, and I think that it's here that the emotional "zing" comes from. In our culture sexual relationships are generally more emotionally intense than nonsexual ones. Why? Because in sexual relationships people are encouraged to focus on their partner, whereas in nonsexual relationships they're encouraged to focus on collective activity. What do friends do? They hang out, they do something together or have a conversation, focusing on whatever it they're doing or talking about. Relationships build becuase people get used to being around each other. In sexual relationships people go out to dinner (to overgeneralize) and gaze into each other's eyes. (Sexual) lovers focus on what they feel TOWARDS their partner, where platonic friends focus on what they are doing (and feeling) WITH their partner. Of course the emotions are more intense in romantic sexual relationships, they spend half of their time mulling over them. Now is there any reason that we, as asexuals, can't? Not especially, it's just somewhat unfamiliar ground. Sexual people like to wrap everything up nicely with concepts of monogomy, which we can't do. How do we know which of all of our friendships is "the one" (as having more than one can be a headache, as any polyamarous person will tell you)? Sexual people deal with the problem nicely by saying "the one I'm fucking", but we don't have that luxery. Not only that but we're stuck in a world where most people aren't interested in forming these sorts of romantic relationships with us unless we're interested in sex, which makes the "zing" hard to come by for us asexuals, but by no means impossible. Not to say that all of us are looking for it, but it seems like a good portion of us are, me included.
Sorry for the rant, and I hope this is on topic. I picked up halfway through the conversation.
-Lazarus
http://www.asexuality.org
Hi Lazarus,
Your statement make sense but I have always felt that the "zing", is really a sexual thing more than just a mere cultural phenomenon.
My opinion on the "zing" is that even if it's not expressed physically, or is present in the conscious mind, it's definitely there on the subconscious level.
And that would account for the "higher than a kite" feelings some "asexuals" feel in certain relationships even though their conscious minds have dismissed the idea of sexual desire and activity altogether.
Which brings me to another point:
That is why the LGB community has always considered Boston Marriages to be sexual in nature even though the romantic partners in these types of relationships DO NOT HAVE SEX. The LGB's stance on this issue makes complete sense, IMHO, when you start reading up on the currently accepted theories of psychology, psychoanalysis, and the subconscious (unconscious) mind.
Also... if we were to assume for a moment that the "zing" is not sexual in nature, then we would have to ask ourselves why those "higher than a kite" feelings are not commonly expressed in other relationships-- such as close friendships and relationships with family members.
While one could argue that the "zing" is an extra strong feeling of love, that explanation still doesn't adequately explain why it wouldn't exist in other relationships where the feelings of attachment can be equally intense.
For example, the relationship between parent and child is one of the most intense relationships in the human world when you factor in the paternal and maternal instinct.
Nom
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: What makes the "zing"?
<< Well it's also pretty arrogant to tell people they shouldn't be interested in only attractive people, Grace. >>
If you hadn't noticed, I dropped that.
If you hadn't noticed, I dropped that.
Well good for you! Now drop this okay?
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] What makes the "zing"?
<< You know there are people who can act like they are drunk... even if they don't drink. >>
I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me I was acting like I was drunk just because I don't agree with you.
<< You know there are people who can act like they are drunk... even if they don't drink. >>
I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me I was acting like I was drunk just because I don't agree with you.
Who says I am saying you're drunk?
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Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] ...if it ain't got that zing
<< For example, the relationship between parent and child is one of the most intense relationships in the human world when you factor in the paternal and maternal instinct. >>
It is quite similar to parent/child relationships for me. But that would be kind of gross with your parents, so I feel a similar way with people who are accessible.
<< For example, the relationship between parent and child is one of the most intense relationships in the human world when you factor in the paternal and maternal instinct. >>
It is quite similar to parent/child relationships for me. But that would be kind of gross with your parents, so I feel a similar way with people who are accessible.
I am not sure I follow you but then again I don't usually follow the logic (or lack thereof) in most your posts.
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The zing...
Nom wrote:
<Well.. Amy, how else would YOU explain and account for it?
Do you have any ideas?
I doubt it.
Before discrediting my theory because you need "proof" try coming up with your own explanation for this extra "zing".>
OK, doubt away if you must. Although I can't speak for others, I will explain the reason for the "zing" in my non-sexual relationship (yes, I DID say non-sexual): in our case I believe the zing comes from a special kind of love that differs from the love for relatives or other friends...in our case I would call it a "soulmate" or "twin soul" connection, an enduring love that is based on spirituality rather than sensuality. We are convinced that we were brought together to learn important lessons in life from each other, and that the intensity of our spiritual attraction to each other is because of significance of this coming together.
Whether someone like yourself, who seems to be steeped in psychology (dare I say Freud?), can understand this kind of link between two human beings, I can't really say. But from everything you have posted here, I doubt it.
Amy
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] ...if it ain't got that zing
<< I am not sure I follow you but then again I don't usually follow the logic (or lack thereof) in most your posts. >>
Um, can we drop the insults please?
Most people I talk to understand me.
You're just going to disagree when I clarify, so I won't bother.