Haven for the Human Amoeba

Nope, but I had a vested interest in doing such papers. In this situation, I am very much content with my opinion, and it is you who wishes to convince me otherwise.

Hey I am not trying to convince anyone other than the fact that the definition for asexuality needs to be more narrowly defined.

I mean you don't have to convince me that you're a lesbian, that's obvious.

Nom

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Then don't expect anyone to change to your view.

Like I said, I am not trying to convince anyone. That's like you trying to convince me you're an asexual when it's obvious you are not.

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<<I mean you don't have to convince me that you're a lesbian, that's obvious.>>

;) You really wouldn't know.

Prove it! Let's see some citations!

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I know I'm an asexual. I don't need your approval to know that, sorry.

I don't need your approval either to see you for what you are.

Sorry about that.

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I don't have to prove anything to you. I know what I am, and if you don't believe me, your loss.

From the looks of your posts, I am not losing much, lol!!

Nom

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You'll never be me....>>>

Thank goodness!

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<< From the looks of your posts, I am not losing much, lol!! >>

You really wouldn't know.

As they say what you don't know can't hurt you!

Nope I am definitely not losing much.. looks more like a very big gain than anything...

Nom

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Hi y'all,

you know i have been reading through some of these latest posts and after looking up some things on the web, i think i can understand what nom is talking about. while nom's definition of asexuality is strict, it's not that far off the mark, if you want to consider that asexuality means having absolutely no sexual desire.

for example consider someone's remark about feeling "higher than a kite" when they are in love. it seems that if you are experiencing that sort of thing (i am assuming lightheadedness, heart palpitations, feeling jubilant, etc), you could very well be experiencing a sexual attraction due to your hypothalmus.

this came from a website i visited--

"Although the reproductive parts are often ascribed credit (or blame) for human sexual attraction, many scientists believe that sexual attraction begins in a pea-sized structure called the hypothalamus deep in the primitive part of the human brain. This tiny bundle of nerves sets off an exciting chain of events when one person perceives another to be sexually attractive. The hypothalamus instantly notifies the pituitary gland which rushes hormones to the sex glands. The sex glands in turn promptly react by producing estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. Within seconds, the heart pounds, muscles tense; he or she feels dizzy, light-headed, and the tingling of sexual arousal.

This chemical driven high also induces moods which swing from well being, feelings of possessiveness, and happily-ever-after fantasies to anxiety, pining, jealousy, and blind rage. A malfunctioning hypothalamus can have bizarre effects on one's romantic love life, including irrational and distorted romantic choices, obsessions, idealization, and separation anxiety. (Donahue, 1985).

<< It's not unfair to say that gays /tend/ to be sex ogres while lesbians /tend/ to behave like the _average_ heterosexual women I've mentioned before.

Uh, do you really associate with lesbians? 90% of my lesbian friends are sex-obsessive.

<< Um... you should hang out with dykes and gay boys I hang out with.. :) >>

Exactly. Where the heck is anyone living that lesbians are pressured into sex and it's not high on their priority list? Identifying as a lesbian comes with sexual connotation, I cannot TALK to most lesbians without getting shunned for my sexual position. Really, lesbians can be very sex-obsessive in all of my encounters. If they weren't, I probably wouldn't be single. Here Nom comes and explains all the reasons why I'm single, but I have met people I got fabulously along with, until I mentioned being asexual. Oops. Bye bye relationship opportunity.

Amoebas are gettin' busy...

It's not unfair to say that gays /tend/ to be sex ogres while lesbians

/tend/ to behave like the _average_ heterosexual women I've mentioned before.

Um... you should hang out with dykes and gay boys I hang out with.. :)

I'm definitely a fan of making the definition of asexual broad; broader, even, than the one plastered on the opening page of AVEN. Defining asexuality will always be difficult and contraversial, because everything about sexual orientation is arbitrary and vague. What's gender? A complicated and pretty arbitrary hodgepodge of socially defined characteristics. You're probably all familiar with this theory, but I'll restate it anyway: when we think of "male" and "female" we're generally not thinking of penis and vagina (which are characteristics of just two of a multitude of biological sexes) but of a slew of mannerisms, personality traits, and styles of dress that are associated with "men" and "women." So heterosexuality and homosexuality are pretty arbitrary catagories, especially when you start throwing transgendered people into the mix. (can a straight man be attracted to an MTF transsexual? How trans- ed do they have to be?) Sex is just as arbitrary. What's sex? Most sexual people to consider sex (or at least good sex) to be alot more than simple genitle contact (in fact, depending on who you talk to, the focus of sex doesn't have to BE genitle contact and orgasm). It gets into the vague and amorphous (ameobic, even) realm of "sexuality", where everything works on implication an innuendo and no clear lines can be drawn whatsoever or anywhere. SO, it's nigh-impossible to define asexual because it's nigh-impossible to define sexual, as your discussion here has quite clearly illustrated. But before we get all mopey and frustrated at being unable to define what we are, lets ask ourselves why we need a clear definition in the first place. If gender, sexuality and to some extent sex are all social constructs, then asexuality must also be a construct. There's no tangible "asexuality gene", no bona-fied test to determine who IS and ISN'T, it's a vague concept that we use to help figure ourselves out, describe ourselves to other people and seek others like ourselves. Practically speaking the word "asexual" is just a tool to help us figure out, as individuals and as a community, how to deal with not being "sexual." So what do we gain by questioning whether or not other people are "really" asexual. Is our community exclusive? Can only bona-fied, tried and proven asexuals (whatever that means) participate? What happens if someone who has three square fucks a day decides to call themselves asexual and starts posting? What do we lose? They'll try thinking of themselves as asexual for a while, realize that that the concept isn't useful for them to figure themselves out and go on their merry way. What business is it of ours if they're "really" asexual or not, if they want to try using the tool, let them go ahead. There's plenty of asexuality to go around. I hope that I've been clear, and sorry for being so long-winded. We don't gain anything by determining who "is" and "isn't" asexual, we're all here to figure ourselves out, have fun, and help others do the same.

-Laz

<< The reason why I make the second point is that if we are seeking to have our identity be accepted by the medical/psychological community, (much like heterosexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality has been), rather than being relegated to the "sexual aversion disorder" category, we need a more clearly defined definition of ourselves rather than a broader and more vague definition like the one we already have in place now. >>

Not all of us ARE seeking to be accepted by the psychological/medical community.

I'm just trying to find people to relate with.

Hi Abracadabra,

Thanks for the post. Your post only further proves my assertions on the very distinct psychological line between sexual and nonsexual behavior.

I really don't think that romantic relationships (if you define them according Mike's definition) can really exist with asexuality.

There's just too much clinical evidence to support the idea that such relationships have a psychological sexual component.

Nom

Hi y'all,

you know i have been reading through some of these latest posts and after looking up some things on the web, i think i can understand what nom is talking about. while nom's definition of asexuality is strict, it's not that far off the mark, if you want to consider that asexuality means having absolutely no sexual desire.

for example consider someone's remark about feeling "higher than a kite" when they are in love. it seems that if you are experiencing that sort of thing (i am assuming lightheadedness, heart palpitations, feeling jubilant, etc), you could very well be experiencing a sexual attraction due to your hypothalmus.

this came from a website i visited--

"Although the reproductive parts are often ascribed credit (or blame) for human sexual attraction, many scientists believe that sexual attraction begins in a pea-sized structure called the hypothalamus deep in the primitive part of the human brain. This tiny bundle of nerves sets off an exciting chain of events when one person perceives another to be sexually attractive. The hypothalamus instantly notifies the pituitary gland which rushes hormones to the sex glands. The sex glands in turn promptly react by producing estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. Within seconds, the heart pounds, muscles tense; he or she feels dizzy, light-headed, and the tingling of sexual arousal.

This chemical driven high also induces moods which swing from well being, feelings of possessiveness, and happily-ever-after fantasies to anxiety, pining, jealousy, and blind rage. A malfunctioning hypothalamus can have bizarre effects on one's romantic love life, including irrational and distorted romantic choices, obsessions, idealization, and separation anxiety. (Donahue, 1985).

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Hi DJay

I'm definitely a fan of making the definition of asexual broad; broader, even, than the one plastered on the opening page of AVEN.

I think broadening the definition would be a very irresponsible thing to do because it would create a lot of confusion for people who are trying to sort out their orientation identity.

It also would not be a good move if our focus is to have our lifestyle considered to be a valid one.

The reason why I make the second point is that if we are seeking to have our identity be accepted by the medical/psychological community, (much like heterosexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality has been), rather than being relegated to the "sexual aversion disorder" category, we need a more clearly defined definition of ourselves rather than a broader and more vague definition like the one we already have in place now.

As it stands currently, while it appears we do have some people who seem well adjusted in their orientation as asexuals (in the sense that they are happy living alone, happy with just friendship, not desirous of romantic commitments (if one defines "romance" by Mike Vice's earlier definition), who probably could make a very strong case to the medical community about the validity of the asexual lifestyle, we also on the other hand, have a group of people who if they were examined by a clinician, would more than likely be diagnosed with sexual aversion disorder.

I say that about the latter group, because these individuals exhibit on a psychosexual level all the signs of desiring deep relationships-- that are more than just close friendships, yet they have a very strong abhorrence and anxiety towards actual sexual contact-- which fits the current definition of sexual aversion disorder.

Anyway I think we have a responsibility not only to ourselves but to others--- people who are currently in the mode of wondering "just what am I?", to provide a more clear picture of who we are and what we are trying to achieve.

Nom

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Hi Grace,

Not all of us ARE seeking to be accepted by the psychological/medical community.

Well aside from the teenage/young adult asexual subset (that is for the most part predominantly occupied with the usual young adult issues of trying to sort out feelings about one's changing body and one's changing role/relationship to others), there are some of us who would like more acceptance/tolerance of our lifestyle.

We are the older folks, you could say-- who have been asexual a lot longer, and who consider our asexual identities to be more of a permanent part of our ourselves and our "being-ness".

Anyway there's no reason why we can't become a group that has several objectives in its agenda.

However as I said earlier, if we were to pursue that route, the burden of proof will be on us to prove that we have a legitimate claim, rather than showing ourselves to be nothing more than folks with a disorder.

Nom

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Ok, I thought about it and thought about it and came up with the symbol and definition which I have included in our clubs "Photos". The overall image is largely based on the hints dropped earlier about a desire to have a circular aspect to our symbol (somewhat like the Mars/Venus symbols). I inverted the "extensions" so that they almost make the circle look like the "NO --ing" signs often seen around the U.S. and the change in directions suggests that we are humans who operate differently from the "norm". The colors blue and green were used because I noticed that someone mentioned in an earlier posting that they represented the earth (was it IOA?). I liked the idea of giving our symbol a "global awareness" aspect. Purple was chosen because someone mentioned in an earlier post something about an amethyst in a goblet?...Well, I can't remember the details, but this person liked the color and so do I! As you'll notice, the ends of the inverted male and female extensions are not touching each other. That was done on purpose to represent the fact that we do not want our genitalia to touch other people's genitalia. (I'm sorry, but I couldn't think of a less graphic way to put that!) As for my definition, I used the word "enigmatic" because we are a mysterious group of individuals. We have all arrived here for different reasons (some are virgins, some were previously sexually active, some are involuntary celibates, some are voluntary celibates, some masturbate, some never masturbate, some don't want to be affiliated with any of the above terminology, etc.), but we do seem to agree on one thing. We all seem to find sexual "intercourse" unattractive. I used the term "intercourse" on purpose because in order to have it, you must have at least two individuals. Finally, the symbol kind of looks like it's hugging itself! We each seem to love ourselves enough to be ourselves and that's always good. Please post your thoughts/feedback on this suggested symbol and definition.

P.S.- IOA (I'm sorry if I misspelled the first part of your ID), I liked the Hebrew letter, but the curvy V sort of looked like the end of a knife to me. I liked the artistic quality of it, though. I know you said it meant unity in math, but curving one side of it made it look like a knife to me. Sorry.

Now it's too late for me to go to bed so I'm going to sleep sitting up. Goodnight all!

Oh, and one more thing...this symbol kind of resembles an AMOEBA!! Ok, NOW I'm going to sleep sitting up. (ZZZZZzzzzzz)

I love the symbol. Don't know about the smiley-face part, but the rest is good. As for what I was saying before: I agree that making some sort of a common definition is important, I just don't think that we should make a group based on that identity, we she make a group based on the issues that we face around that identity. I hope that makes sense as a distinction.

On definitions: I personally don't see the problem with a definition in the negative (eg. "the state of not experiencing sexual attraction.") I feel like all of the experiences I've had that set me apart from sexual people are sort of abstract derivations of that, and are awkward to make a definition around. It seems like we're not going to be able to get around defining ourselves in terms of sexuality. My personal asexual identity is very much formed in terms of sexuality, and it seems to fit, because really talking about asexuality for me is just talking about sexuality in the abstract. And if we're defining ourselves in terms of sexuality, then I don't see how we can get around defining ouselves with a negative.

Yay! I'm glad that one person likes the symbol. The smiley face part was done to let people know that we are NOT sexually repressed, bitter people. We find pleasure in other things. We might even want to share some love, peace, and happiness with the world! :o) As for defining the group of us in the form of a negative, if it doesn't bother anyone else, then I'll shut up about it.

Dear Muneeb, First of all, I wish you and your new wife all the happiness in the world.

Love is a lot more than about sex.

I wish you all the happiness in the world.

Your friend, Moni-Beth

Hi

I just joined this group and thought I would tell a little about myself. I am a 21 yrs old male who just got married and am asexual. I am glad I found this out because now I seem a lot more comfortable with myself. I struggled with the decision of hetro or homo sexuality for a long time not ever engaging in any relationship but finally found out that I didn't have to force anything on myself and being asexual was okay. My wife is hetrosexual but we have a beautiful marriage and are totally happy and dedicated to each other.

Take Care Muneeb

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I like the symbol, even the happy face part!

Thank you! That makes me feel good! *:o)

http://www.geocities.com/myydmyhzrhkz/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/sjhjpypjooud/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/mmyjrbgvuyco/index.html