Haven for the Human Amoeba

<< I would just like to know if there's anyone here who is inclined towards a masculine attitude (competitive behavior, tendency to physical aggression, high testosterone levels) because I /presume/ that such scenario isn't favorable for an asexual. (just to warn: I'm not masculine myself)

Well, I'm competitive and have violent thoughts.. But I'm not sure if being competitive makes you masculine, I know a lot of competitive women..

<< Do you like sports? Well, if you put a less violent and less competitive women beside a competitive/violent one, who's more feminine by comparison? >>

I don't know, I've never defined femininity by docileness and agreeability..

I like watching some sports. Tennis, baseball, figure skating, gymnastics, etc.

<< Surely the masculine behavior is related to the hunter behavior and surely women are more docile than men - it's a matter of evolution and survival, where the males were the hunters and the women were responsible for taking care of the children in the primitive age (the longest age). >>

Well, some would say that a feminine woman is submissive, subserviant, docile, obedient, etc. Others praise modesty and manners, but very few people would call a woman masculine if she wore lipstick and miniskirts.

But I don't think being competitive and liking sports alone makes you masculine, because in relationships I'm a fairly gentle, polite person. I don't know, I wouldn't really label myself masculine or feminine, but I wouldn't say I'm UNfeminine.

I think that you'll be hard pressed to find a scientifically accepted "cause" for any sexual orientation (Freud thought it was overprotective mothers, but nothing he's said has ever really been proved.) Studies that show inherint personality/cognitive differences among sexes are all pretty controversial as I understand it, as any differnce caused by iological sex would be far outweighed by the myriad of other random genetic and environmental factors that contribute to personality and ability.

As for agressiveness, I don't see how that is in any way contrary to asexuality. I know that for me the two go hand in hand. Without sex we asexuals have to get creative about how we're intimate with people, and competition is a really great way to do that. Aggressiveness is good because it helps people realize that I'm not just a prude.

I don't know, I've never defined femininity by docileness and agreeability..

I like watching some sports. Tennis, baseball, figure skating, gymnastics, etc.

Surely the masculine behavior is related to the hunter behavior and surely women are more docile than men - it's a matter of evolution and survival, where the males were the hunters and the women were responsible for taking care of the children in the primitive age (the longest age).

The point is: what role did the evolution have for creating different brains for men and women, so that now we have a significantly greater amount of female asexuals? Why do we have more female asexuals? At least, of declared asexuals, since the men are so vocal everywhere, but not in the asexual web sites, forums, etc.

I remember I've watched a documentary where they have shown a male nurse

and a female engineer. The male nurse had a female brain and vice- versa: he had all the abilities and disabilities related to the female brain, and so to the female engineer inversely.

What's the ultimate point of it: as we can set the conditions for the appearance of fire (heat, oxygen, pressure), couldn't we preview the conditions of asexuality? What would these conditions be? A common condition for homosexuality in boys is an overprotective mother, for example.

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I'm not discouting it as a possibility, I just not giving it much weight as one (based on my understanding into research on the "causes" of sexual orientation.)

As for gender and asexuality, I know that the community on AVEN would suggest a pretty even gender breakdown (though many people haven't identified and I haven't been keeping a tally.) Still, it might be socially easier for women to come to the realization that they are asexual than men in a society where women are supposed to be sexually passive and men are supposed to be sexually agressive. An interesting thing to look at...

-DJ

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but absolutely discard a

Freud theory, even as a possibility, is a mistake for me.

Not even I believe in "cause and effect", coes there are infinite invisible causes for one effect and infinite effects for one cause, not to mention

that this is a continuum, but the logic we use is based on this (unreal)

rule, and it works most of the time.

In science, and therefore in psychology, the scientists are conscious that there are much more variables to consider than what they have at hand, and we never have all variables at hand because that's simply impossible! Nevertheless, the scientists won't stop making judgements just because they are unable to figure the situation as a whole - if we waited to have all

variables to start counting, we would never have nothing at all!

I'm just suggesting a less agnostic approach: can the gender be a variable in the appearance of asexuality? Because if it is, then we have something to work with - at least.

I think that you'll be hard pressed to find a scientifically accepted "cause" for any sexual orientation (Freud thought it was overprotective mothers, but nothing he's said has ever really been proved.) Studies that show inherint personality/cognitive differences among sexes are all pretty controversial as I understand it, as any differnce caused by iological sex would be far outweighed by the myriad of other random genetic and environmental factors that contribute to personality and ability.

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I agree entirely. Scientific support is only relevant as it relates to cultural support. To extend the idea even further I would argue that scientific support os something as scientifically complex as asexuality is a function of cultural support, as has been the case with other sexual orientations and race. Different "races" were thought of as having different characteristics, until that kind of thinking became culturally unchique and thinking changed. Same with sexual orientation being an abomination. In both cases (and in our case) scientific arguments were being used to justify certain cultural views, when the cultural views became unpopular so did the science behind them.

Making whatever judgment regarding the appearance of asexuality is very

likely to fall into an induction rather than a deduction: we don't have any "big picture" of asexuality and therefore we are condemned to be unrecognized by the scientific authorities. If they say the homosexuality in boys is caused by an overprotective mother, they must have at least some statistical base for that.

If you look carefully, you'll find that bisexuality is still polemic and

not every scientist take it for serious, even though it is accepted culturally; can you imagine asexuality being taken for serious if it not

even the culture has accepted it?

I think that a serious variable for the construction of asexuality is the cultural one: our western culture does not imagine asexuality, but it is

individualistic (at least it claims to be), and we recognize our asexualities /because/ of this recognition of individuality - without it, we would think we are sick, etc. Maybe some culture in Africa claims that if someone is asexual, then this one is a witch or wizard or spirit of some animal or son of god, whatever... but there will be some real asexuals

there someday and their existence will be recognized and therefore, keep

existing.

I'm sorry, but we are always going towards the flow we were thrown into:

without a minimum of cultural support, we wouldn't be here.

---

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That friend of my was saying that if asexuality was just a matter of hormones, then it would be reversible - I agree.

Well, some time ago, I let my hormone-level be checked (both female and male hormones). Result: totally "normal" - on base of my hormone- levels, nobody could tell that I'm asexual.

So, I don't believe that it is (only) a matter of hormones.

Same

with sexual orientation being an abomination. In both cases (and in our case) scientific arguments were being used to justify certain cultural views, when the cultural views became unpopular so did the science behind them.

I think that is very true. That is (for me) also a reason why science cannot say what is "healthy", "acceptable", 'normal" ... These are labels which carry a value, and values are made by a culture. That is why "what is seen as normal, healthy, ..." changes as times change. So, a lot of people see asexuality as abnormal. They only thing that means is that our culture has not accepted it yet as a possible orientation.

<< Well, some time ago, I let my hormone-level be checked (both female and male hormones). Result: totally "normal" - on base of my hormone- levels, nobody could tell that I'm asexual. >>

Same goes for me!

<<If you search throughout the internet, you'll find many sites relating aggressiveness and sexuality ("If you are aggressive in general, you are aggressive sexually").

Not always! This is something I actually have an example on. I am a very, very bold, aggressive, opinionated person. But when it approaches anything sexual, I am very shy and uncomfortable. Even with romance, I become quite demure. So aggressive normally does not always equate to aggressive sexually and romantically.

The last days, sexual dysfunctions are rather discussed a lot in the papers / the news ... One paper mentioned even that 42 % (!!!) of women have sexual dysfunctions! Can you believe this? I wonder, if so many people do not fall within the category of normalness, well, maybe the definition of normalness is just completely wrong. And, they also mentioned that they were going to organise a meeting about sexual dysfunctions, and you know who would pay for this? Pharmaceutic companies! They make a definition about normalness and about what is a problem. Of course, most people fall outside that so-called normalness, and than, they need to be cured ... ra, ra, by whom? Medicines ... made by those companies... I wondered, where are we as asexuals in all that?

Very interesting...

I imagine that we don't fit too well. While I'm certain that legit sexual dysfunctions exist I bet the idea is way overproblematized.

The last days, sexual dysfunctions are rather discussed a lot in the papers / the news ... One paper mentioned even that 42 % (!!!) of women have sexual dysfunctions! Can you believe this? I wonder, if so many people do not fall within the category of normalness, well, maybe the definition of normalness is just completely wrong. And, they also mentioned that they were going to organise a meeting about sexual dysfunctions, and you know who would pay for this? Pharmaceutic companies! They make a definition about normalness and about what is a problem. Of course, most people fall outside that so-called normalness, and than, they need to be cured ... ra, ra, by whom? Medicines ... made by those companies... I wondered, where are we as asexuals in all that?

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They make a definition about normalness and about what is a problem. Of course, most people fall outside that so-called normalness, and than, they need to be cured ... ra, ra, by whom? Medicines ... made by those companies...

Oich! Sounds like the committee that was set up to whether or not ADHD was something that should be treated or not. And of course the pharmaceuticals were hosting. And of course they started the precedent of completely screwing over children left and right. Who cares if a segment of the population turns into ritalin junkies, at least they made their coin and the parents no longer had to be parents with the newly sedated and docile children.

I wondered, where are we as asexuals in all that?

Wholesale aphrodisiacs!!

Does anyone think that sexual anorexia or the fear of intimacy and sexual contact relates to being asexual? I mean can one cause the other?

Does anyone think that sexual anorexia or the fear of intimacy and sexual contact relates to being asexual? I mean can one cause the other?

I'm somewhat bemused by this...

Sexual anorexia: what precisely does this mean? I'll try and guess. Anorexia is a mental disorder characterised by a reluctance to eat and a morbid fear of growing fat. So, I guess that your term refers to a reluctance to have sex out of fear of developing... what? Sexual liberation? Heterosexuality?

I know a number of young men in our church who fall within this definition, to an extent. They abstain from sex and fear being in a situation where they might be tempted into sexual intimacy. They don't masturbate and often refuse to watch material that, whilst not being pornographic, is ouvertly sexual. Why? Because they are adhering solidly to the principle of chastity.

Each one of these young men have normal sexual desires that they are intentionally suppressing. They are all looking forward to marriage, and to a sexual relationship with their wives. I know adults who have been through the same experiences and are now living quite happily with their wives, and have perfectly regular sex lives.

On the other hand, I can watch pornography and feel not a stir. I don't seem to be capable of sustaining an erection or of developing sexual desires like other people have. I have, in the past, attempted to coax my libido into making itself heard through intentional sexual contact with girls and with other men, and all it produced was an unpleasant feeling that I was using these people inappropriately - objectifying others is something I've always had a problem with, unlike the sexual majority.

Without a representative sample, it is impossible to say. But this sounds suspiciously like a rehash of the old idea that absence of a strong male role model or some other combination of circumstance is responsible for homosexual tendencies. Modern data points to genetic factors as the predominant influence in developing sexuality. Why cannot asexuality be another unusual variant? The numbers seem to indicate this - there are very few asexuals, implying a low proportion of 'carriers' of whatever combinations lead to asexuality - just what would be expected of a group of people not compelled to engage in reproductive activities - a larger number of homosexuals, which (since this group are capable of heterosexual relationships) is also reasonable, and a very large number of heterosexuals.

I'd need figures, but I think an appropriate mathematical model could be developed to reflect this... Although I'm not a geneticist or a biologist by training, I do know that genetic theory is, in the most part, based on statistics, and that I can deal with.

- Jordan

hello...

just wanted to introduce myself. i'm 21 years old and from germany. so if my english isn't that good, i hope you don't mind. why i signed up for this list? because i'm starting to explore the reasons why i'm define myself as a lesbian, but having no interest in sex at all allthough i'd fallen in love with women. i'm not interested in men - at the moment, you'll never know what the future will be like.

how ever... i hope to learn a little bit more about myself and to meet new nice people.

greetings, marlene

I am writing to say farewell to the group. It has been fun talking with you all, and trying to figure all of this out. I am leaving because over the past year I have come to the slow realization that I am not really an asexual. It has been a painful road, twisted path; realizing that one had been sexually abused as a child -- and repressed as a result. I am not naturally this way, and am undergoing the years and steps it will take to reverse the damage. Just admitting this to you all is a big step for me.

Thus I can no longer in good conscience offer my wisdom to the discussions here, as it is all tainted by a mind in denial; and you would probably be wise to add that salt to everything I have said in the past. I will say one last thing though, this of course, does not refect anything upon the asexual movement. I think you all have validity, even if I do not, and I wish you all the best in finding your personal peace. I will probably never be a fully functioning sexual person, due to the way I associate it with a shameful and dirty thing in my mind. But who knows, from here the curve goes up.

The best to all of you; fight the good fight!

Ta.

<< Alot of asexual discussion has moved to the asexual visibility and education network at http://www.asexuality.org >>

Most people here don't get along with AVEN. ^_^ Unwillingness to accept romantic relationships as asexual here.

Hello to all, I´m from brazil, have 22 years old... I search at web all information about people who doesnt need sex to live. First, sorry because my problem with english language...portuguese is a died language, nobody talk this...its very hard to me found something in portuguese. Talk about me, some Months ago, I have a choice. I never do sex again. I´m gay....and my husband ask me if have any club to people whos loves without sex, I search and found u. I have a lot of question..and hope i can help me. take care

Hi everyone. Please No Emails; I'll read messages Online-Thanks. I just recently decided to be celibate and stay that way (fear of intimacy & no sex drive). I'm used to having sex, but it always felt like a chore. I surely did not enjoy it. It affected all my relationships with men, which is why I don't date anymore. All of this came about 5 or more months ago. Is there something wrong w/ me?

I don't like going through a ton of emails and like chat rooms. Will somone (male) meet me there. I want a man's point of view on this. No offense ladies-I'll come to u next. Reesa

Ok, folks. I've got to go to bed, but I'm inspired to post here for really no reason in particular, so not much thought is going into this. I apologize in advance.

You all know that I haven't been around in a long time, and I'm not sure if that fact is going to change.

I still believe in this "cause" as it were, but way back in the day, it got to the point that I felt shut out of my own club.

It became overwhelming; the members were putting more into it than I was. It was more of a passing hobby for me, but others were making it a way of life, ignoring me, "starting" things I'd already started, and (from my perception) trying to take over everything.

That is why I left. I've been over it for a long time, but I'm a busy gal with other things to do. I've been on messenger frequently, and no one's ever IM'd me about the club, so I didn't think anyone was looking too hard for me. My e-mail filled up with messages from this club, and I apologize for that.

For the sake of anonymity, the e-mail addies I've given you folks have been e-mails that I don't hold much attachment to. No one who "really" knows me is aware of either e-mail address, so I have virtually no pressing reasons to check them. Besides, as I said, I felt pushed out of my own club, and the people most likely to contact me would have been the people who I felt were pushing me out.

I'd wanted to give the club over to one member in particular, but alas, that person is no longer around as far as I can tell. It's not that I don't feel passionately about asexual rights, but I feel passionately about a lot of other things as well and I've had a lot of personal things going on as well. I'm also working full time, going to school full time, etc.

Well, that's all I have to say. Make of it what you will. This club is bigger and more active than I ever thought it would be. I'm frequently available for IM, and I'll try to check in more often from now on.

I'd love to talk (I'm male, BTW), my IM is spdskata and is probably the easiest way to get in touch with me.

Alot of asexual discussion has moved to the asexual visibility and education network at http://www.asexuality.org

Good to see you. I would say that there's nothing wrong with what you're doing (whether or not it's normal I wouldn't say is particularely relevant.)

Hope all's well..

-DJ

Quoting teddybear16203 <[email protected]>:

I don't like going through a ton of emails and like chat rooms. Will somone (male) meet me there. I want a man's point of view on this. No offense ladies-I'll come to u next. Reesa

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True, don't mean to ignore that distinction. Just that activity on this group's been low the past month so I thought I throw in my shameless plug.

And for the record not everyone on AVEN believes that romantic relationships can be asexual (though personally I do, depending on how you define romantic.)

Teddy- sorry to greet you with internal asexual schisms. Feel free to experiment with different communities and see which one you like.

Quoting pessimisticgrace@...:

<< Alot of asexual discussion has moved to the asexual visibility and education network at http://www.asexuality.org >>

Most people here don't get along with AVEN. ^_^ Unwillingness to accept

romantic relationships as asexual here.

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True, don't mean to ignore that distinction. Just that activity on this group's been low the past month so I thought I throw in my shameless plug.

And for the record not everyone on AVEN believes that romantic relationships can be asexual (though personally I do, depending on how you define romantic.)

Teddy- sorry to greet you with internal asexual schisms. Feel free to experiment with different communities and see which one you like.

Quoting pessimisticgrace@a...:

<< Alot of asexual discussion has moved to the asexual visibility and education network at http://www.asexuality.org >>

Most people here don't get along with AVEN. ^_^ Unwillingness to accept

romantic relationships as asexual here.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From teddybear: I don't understand what yr saying about "not getting along w/ Aven"?