gender equality, female perpetrators
********************************************** Again, if they are judged that way, it's due to a historical situation that was set up by men; women have, until the past couple of decades, been dependent on men because they were unable either to get jobs at all, or to get jobs at the same level as men. **************************************************** This is just not true. This is absolutely not true.
If you go into the prison system and ask the violent men about their mothers... ask the men who are serially kill women and are serial rapists about their mothers. You will hear stories like, "One day my mother asked me what I loved most in the world. I said, "My mule." So she went and got a gun and shot it." You will hear stories like, "One day I made her look bad and she threw me out of the house onto the streets." "She molested me over and over again and no one would stop her. I didn't know what to do with all the hate." Look into history and find plays about Medea, who murdered her own children to annoy her ex husband. In east Africa, the men were ready to stop the female circumcisions. It was the established women who enforced them.
Even the idea that women can't be perpetrators and have no responsibility for the condition of the society that human kind lives in is discriminatory. How can you be mad that women have no power when you throw away our personal responsibility?
Throughout human history, the vast vast majority of human beings on earth have been helpless infants in the hands of a primary caregiver (usually a woman) who decides whether they live or die during a time when the foundation of their brain circuitry is being wired.
I assure you that women are not the "innocent victims" of a system created by men. That is a distortion (created by a pro-female ideology). When men create the analogous ridiculous pro-male ideology we call it discriminatory patriarchy, but when we do it... it is... the "solution"? Not true. I remember my mother going off to work everyday and demanding that I have dinner on the table for her when she got home. I did not have time to play with my friends or build my own life because I was her child bride and housegirl. And she would sit at the table I had set out for her and talk about "how far we've come". "Isn't this great, Nic?" "Look how wonderful the feminist movement is."
Yes, how very far the "women's" movement has come.
Make no mistake. I am very grateful to all of the human beings who push for gender equality. I support gender equality, both the healthy men and women's movement with my whole heart.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Questionaire
1. Name/age: Anonymous/24
2. Gender: F
3. Race: C
4. Geographic Location: PA
5. Have you ever had sex? yep
6. What gender, if any, are you attracted to? male
7. Are you open about your non-sexuality? sort of. I don't come out and say I'm asexual but I do say sex isn't my thing, and my myspace is decorated with all kinds of asexual messages
8. Are you married? And if not, do you ever want to get married? Do you crave non-sexual romance? No, yes. I don't crave it but I want it
9. Do you have or want children? as many as possible, but I plan on adopting them all as children older than 8
10. Do you like ANY human contact? Yes
11. Are you bothered by your asexuality? Nope, never
12. Do you date or desire companionship? Do you like to kiss? Yes, when I can find an asexual to date. I like closed mouth kissing - I found french kissing to be boring, pointless, and uncomfortable
13. Have you ruled out possible medical/psychological reasons for your disinterest in sex? Sort of. I know my body often produces zero testosterone- however I had normal production of hormones from when I hit pubert at 10 till I was about 21 and I didn't desire sex then either
14. Were you sexually molested as a child either by adults or other children? Not to my knowledge
15. When did you first start to realize that you were different from other people in terms of your sexuality? Well, I've always been different, but I didn't realize how different I was until I read an article about asexuality on cnn. Though once I found out about it, I understood why I was supposed to be shocked by an article I read a few years prior that said most couples were only having sex once a week - that sounded quite frequent to me.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] men's rights
I really agree with this. There is a LOT of gender inequality that the feminist movement PROMOTES. For example: men do not have equal parenting rights. Go to any custody battle and family court and you'll know it's true. Watch the bizarre over-entitlement women caregivers have to interupt a man and treat him like he's incompetent when he carries a child or changes a diaper. Look at divorce law and examine financial inequalities. It's still the man's job to provide for the woman and children, even when both earn similar amounts.
Also, the difference in family therapy is striking. If a man gets annoyed and LOOKS at a woman funny he is accused of verbally/emotionally abusing her by both the woman and the therapist. And yet... time and time again.... women are supported in their delusional belief that they are god's gift to the relationship, they have the right to manage/dictate all emotional interactions, and men are emotionally retarded little boys. I used to be embarrassed to be a woman in my group therapy. I just wanted to go around and apologize to the men for the total "girl's club" experience. Watch Oprah and listen to a man *try* and talk about the way his wife and all of his friends wives have completely shut down their friendships with other men... Oprah cuts the man off and changes the subject.
I look forward to a healthy men's movement. I look forward to a healthy women's movement. I am not a feminist. I am not interested in being queen of the hill at the top of a discriminatory system. I want gender equality. I want to dismantle the discriminatory system.
Nicole
There is a LOT of gender inequality that the feminist movement PROMOTES. For example: men do not have equal parenting rights. Go to any custody battle and family court and you'll know it's true.
These are remnants of patriarchy, they have to be changed state-by-state. If it bothers you, then change them.
Watch the bizarre over-entitlement women caregivers have to interupt a man and treat him like he's incompetent when he carries a child or changes a diaper.
We don't do this in my family. My brother has a 1-yr. old son, and we let him do his thing with his wife and kid, and he is very good at carrying the baby and changing diapers. I'm just very proud of him because he is such a great nurturer. They bonded right away from what I can tell, and baby and father seem to have a great relationship already. (He was also in the room with his wife when she was giving birth.) And of course, I'm thrilled that he's the one who had the kid, not me, because I'm not very good with babies.
Look at divorce law and examine financial inequalities. It's still the man's job to provide for the woman and children, even when both earn similar amounts.
Not in California, where I live, it's a community property state. This is great for people who are equal, not so great if they aren't. You're probably right that custody usually goes to the mother, and the father has to pay the ex for the kids, but that seems to be the extent of it.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] genes vs environment
There are a lot of debates on lots of subjects of what is genes and what is environment. They argue about gender identity, bipolar, inclination to learn math, whatever. Whenever I listen to these debates in general, the overall conclusions seem to be that genes play a role and kind of set your "defaults" to differing extents and then environment influences can shift things a bit.
The only thing I've come away with is that (as far as other nature vs. nurture debates are concerned). It's not all environment. It can be heavily weighted by genes but environment (especially very early in life during brain circuit wiring years) must be taken into account. I don't know if that carries over to our orientation. That just seems to be what they are concluding on other nature vs. nurture debates.
I do have some blood relatives who are also asexual for the most part.
I'm slowly discovering that for me it is that sexual people just don't have the right framework. I keep meeting people who essentially have the spiritual development of 3 year olds and think that sexual bonding and their near constant boob-sucking mild meld with mommie (former infant primary caregiver) are the same thing. Both men and women. I'm not into f*cking toddlers. It's an amazing thing to meet a fifty year old man who is still in his infant mirroring mind meld and has never left it and really thinks he shouldn't have to. He demands that I f*ck him.
What really turns me off about sex isn't sex. I think all of nature has a desire to integrate. And that expresses itself in a VARIETY of ways. I have a desire to know myself and have the different parts of me integrate into a more coherent loving "self". I have a desire to be connected to my community and go out and have a block party with my neighbors. Recently, someone stole my car and I've had tons of fun connecting with strangers and making friends with all the interesting everyday people I meet on the bus stop. Integration is as natural as the roots of a tree digging into the soil. There are so many languages and mediums through which to express and enjoy this larger integration and mirroring phenomenon.
I'm just profoundly turned off by people who demand that sex is the only "real" way to do it. These people are the ones who inevitably feel they have the right to tell me who I am, what I feel, how I think and how I "should" see the world. They engage me in non-stop selective perception campaigns trying to get me to be parts of themselves. It's like when a woman is cold so she runs around trying to make her children wear sweaters. It's bizarre. I can't be one integrated me trying to integrate with one integrated them. They are these weird infants trying to make me be another part of their brain or something. They blot me out to force me to be their projections of their own internal issues. When they want to "integrate" with me, what they REALLY want is to integrate with themselves ON me. Then they want me to do the same to them.
It's not relationship of any sort. It's contracts of mutual enslavement to accomodate each other's totally bizarre over-entitlements and ensure continued non-existant spiritual growth.
That is not sexy.
Maybe I'm not asexual. Maybe I'm just aware.
Nicole
I'm slowly discovering that for me it is that sexual people just don't have the right framework. I keep meeting people who essentially have the spiritual development of 3 year olds and think that sexual bonding and their near constant boob-sucking mild meld with mommie (former infant primary caregiver) are the same thing. Both men and women. I'm not into f*cking toddlers. It's an amazing thing to meet a fifty year old man who is still in his infant mirroring mind meld and has never left it and really thinks he shouldn't have to. He demands that I f*ck him.
I think you need to hang out in places that place an emphasis on spirituality and healing. New Age kind of places. Most people seem to focus on "survival" and especially right now with leadership promoting fear rather than confidence, many people are really in a bad place mentally. (I have a new respect for Winston Churchill, he really knew what to say without taking advantage of people.)
I am into mysticism and while I don't spend much time on it now, it's really the only way that I am comfortable thinking about higher things in life. When I was in college, I minored in Jewish studies and took various courses that helped me understand the history better. The Dalai Lama says that two mystics from different religions understand each other better than a mystic and a non-mystic from the same religion. You might find your spiritual partner at a New Age Fair. Other options might be Renaissance Fairs and Crafts Fairs, or even Farmers Markets.
Maybe you could take up gardening and sell produce while you're looking. (-:
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
gender equality vs. feminism
There is a LOT of gender inequality that the feminist movement PROMOTES. For example: men do not have equal parenting rights. Go to any custody battle and family court and you'll know it's true.
These are remnants of patriarchy, they have to be changed state-by-state. If it bothers you, then change them.
These are remnants of our culture that we are all participants in and are all responsible for. I can assure you the matriarchy gets in the way just as much as the patriarchy when I do my advocacy work in these areas. I also work in physics which is about 90% men at this time. A very international, very conservative, very patriarchical group. You cannot be near large groups of smart, creative, middle aged white men for very long and work with them and value them as human beings (albeit very annoying human beings at times) and believe the utterly untrue rhetoric of the pro-female "feminists" for very long. I have seen things that shatter all of the stereotypes the 1970's remnants would like to push on us. Female professors and female students doing totally unethical and abusive behaviors. Men being silenced and persecuted for trying to speak on them. And of course, sometimes it is the other way around. But I assure you the perpetrations go both ways. The great irony here is that by refusing to take responsibility for ourselves and the gender inequality we women would perpetrate we actually render ourselves contradictory powerless puppets. Is it that we are facing such a struggle against the evil patriarchy? Or is it that we are now encountering the resistance to our own gender oppression perpetrations? I feel grateful for the hard work we've done. I welcome the opportunity to see the advocacy work I can do within myself to better the situation. It is far easier to exert influence over one's own worldview and behaviors than to run around screaming everyone else accomodate them. My goal is to practice the most effective forms of advocacy for gender equality on all fronts.
Watch the bizarre over-entitlement women caregivers have to interupt a man and treat him like he's incompetent when he carries a child or changes a diaper.
We don't do this in my family. My brother has a 1-yr. old son, and we let him do his thing with his wife and kid, and he is very good at carrying the baby and changing diapers. I'm just very proud of him because he is such a great nurturer. They bonded right away from what I can tell, and baby and father seem to have a great relationship already. (He was also in the room with his wife when she was giving birth.) And of course, I'm thrilled that he's the one who had the kid, not me, because I'm not very good with babies. Well, I think that's wonderful. I wish your family were the norm.
Look at divorce law and examine financial inequalities. It's still the man's job to provide for the woman and children, even when both earn similar amounts.
Not in California, where I live, it's a community property state. This is great for people who are equal, not so great if they aren't. You're probably right that custody usually goes to the mother, and the father has to pay the ex for the kids, but that seems to be the extent of it.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Singles don't get no respect.
On , Adam Ophir Shapira said:You're completely missing the point here.
You're thinking that men are in a great and wonderful position that has no pitfalls -- and that the only reason men object to giving up the privilege is that men are *used* to having the privilege. But that is not how it is.
Men *do* have considerable power --- but society also places certain *burdens* on men that require men to *rely* on said power.
For example -- you hear a lot about the need for equal pay for equal work. However - nobody seems to make much of a fuss about the fact that many women aren't even willing to *consider* dating a man who isn't more financially successful than she is.
Is it really a surprise that men are going to want more pay for the same work if the very ability to find companionship depends on it?
I believe men and women *should* be paid the same for doing the same job. But I also believe that the dating scene needs to be revised so that men's ability to find companionship doesn't hinge on it being otherwise.
I'm afraid the previous poster isn't the one missing the point here. Men want more pay for equal work because they want more pay. Who doesn't? The problem is less with the men getting paid than it is with the people assigning the pay scale who put more value on male contribution than female. The assumption is that if a man and a woman do exactly the same tasks for exactly the same amount of time, the man's work is worth more than the woman's because the man has Y chromosomes and different reproductive equipment than the woman.
As for the dating game, your argument fails to take into account the fact that a woman (or man) can easily find someone who makes more than she (he) does simply by looking at someone with a different job, more seniority, etc. For an example that has nothing to do with gender, my (female) college roommate and I graduated with the exact same amount of education and got our first professional jobs as the same time--literally starting in the same month. I'm a teacher, she's a computer information programmer-type person. She started out making more than double what I make, and ten years later, I still am about 15,000 $ short of her starting salary ten years ago. I could *easily* marry up, financially speaking, just by finding someone in a computer-related industry, and we'd still be on the same page as far as education and social status.
As hard as it is for some men and some women to accept, there is simply no reason why a man and a woman should not be treated equally. Equal treatment doesn't mean an end to all problems for men *or* women. It just means that a person is not being judged by his/her gender instead of his/her abilities and performance.
Katie
However, power has to be shared by the dominant party. If this doesn't happen, then non-dominant party doesn't have any way other than force to get their way.
I think recognizing that men (and people in general) have issues with giving up power would be a good idea, but if we can't even discuss politics and religion amicably, how do you expect us to share on discussions about power, which is even more basic? The fact that you even suggest it shows that women (and others in similar situations) have a lot more work to do in making their case for equality.
What the heck?!?!
Just because I would dare suggest that there is a side of the equation that might be overlooked shows that the other side has a lot to go in making it's case?
That means that for you it is completely INCONCEIVABLE that I might just possibly have a POINT?
I'm not anti-equality. I am PRO-equality. But one-way equality isn't equality.
I fully agree that men DO need to share the power that traditionally was given just to men. But there's also a thing or two that women need to share as well. Even if those things can't be as easily broken down into numerical statistics -- such as how much one is paid for doing a certain job -- these things are still important for women to be willing to share with men if men are to share with women the traditionally-male power without being themselves left in the cold.
I just wanted to jump in here, and say that I envy teachers. Sure, teachers (so far) get less money than many others. However, teachers get to enjoy summers off, good Christmas and other holidays. If I had to do over again, I would jump for a job that lets me have all summer off!
Last, but not least, teachers have tenure, good pensions, sick days and excellent (for little or no money) health coverage. A long time ago, someone told me that salary is not nearly important as the perquisites. He knew what he was talking about. Today, teachers can retire before the age of 50, have a lifelong salary, lifelong health insurance, etc.
Not trying to pick a fight here. Let me share my knowledge and experience with you. Virtually all teachers are cruising around/lying around enjoying the summer. I know lots of happy retired teachers, whose summers are now year-around.
Looking for a career? How can you beat teaching?
If money is that critical, consider a summer career to go along with your regular work. Or consider administrative positions in the educational profession. Far as I can tell, administrative positions in education typically pay MORE than software programming---and perhaps a similar amount to many electrical or computer engineer positions. And how secure are tech related jobs?
Katie, you watch. I am willing to bet you that after you attain the age of 50, you will have MORE income and MORE leisure time than your old college roomie has.
For an example that has nothing to do with gender, my (female) college roommate and I graduated with the exact same amount of education and got our first professional jobs as the same time--literally starting in the same month. I'm a teacher, she's a computer information programmer-type person. She started out making more than double what I make, and ten years later, I still am about 15,000 $ short of her starting salary ten years ago. I could *easily* marry up, financially speaking, just by finding someone in a computer-related industry, and we'd still be on the same page as far as education and social status.
As hard as it is for some men and some women to accept, there is simply no reason why a man and a woman should not be treated equally. Equal treatment doesn't mean an end to all problems for men *or* women. It just means that a person is not being judged by his/her gender instead of his/her abilities and performance.
Katie
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Singles don't get no respect.
I just wanted to jump in here, and say that I envy teachers. Sure, teachers (so far) get less money than many others. However, teachers get to enjoy summers off, good Christmas and other holidays. If I had to do over again, I would jump for a job that lets me have all summer off!
Last, but not least, teachers have tenure, good pensions, sick days and excellent (for little or no money) health coverage. A long time ago, someone told me that salary is not nearly important as the perquisites. He knew what he was talking about. Today, teachers can retire before the age of 50, have a lifelong salary, lifelong health insurance, etc.
Not trying to pick a fight here. Let me share my knowledge and experience with you. Virtually all teachers are cruising around/lying around enjoying the summer. I know lots of happy retired teachers, whose summers are now year-around.
Looking for a career? How can you beat teaching?
If money is that critical, consider a summer career to go along with your regular work. Or consider administrative positions in the educational profession. Far as I can tell, administrative positions in education typically pay MORE than software programming---and perhaps a similar amount to many electrical or computer engineer positions. And how secure are tech related jobs?
Katie, you watch. I am willing to bet you that after you attain the age of 50, you will have MORE income and MORE leisure time than your old college roomie has.
Katie said:For an example that has nothing to do with gender, my (female) college roommate and I graduated with the exact same amount of education and got our first professional jobs as the same time--literally starting in the same month. I'm a teacher, she's a computer information programmer-type person. She started out making more than double what I make, and ten years later, I still am about 15,000 $ short of her starting salary ten years ago. I could *easily* marry up, financially speaking, just by finding someone in a computer-related industry, and we'd still be on the same page as far as education and social status.
As hard as it is for some men and some women to accept, there is simply no reason why a man and a woman should not be treated equally. Equal treatment doesn't mean an end to all problems for men *or* women. It just means that a person is not being judged by his/her gender instead of his/her abilities and performance.
Katie
Well, I'm an ex-software engineer. I would still be doing it except for the fact that there aren't any jobs. There do seem to be some teaching jobs out there, but those jobs are not exactly something anyone would want to do.
I actually looked into what it would take to get into teaching being that there aren't any computer jobs. In Palm Beach County where I live, you have to pay out a good bit of money just to apply for an opening. Its all just greed because so many people would apply if they didn't. Its about $200 for the application, about $100 to get your fingerprints taken, and about another $200 in miscellaneous tests and stuff they want you to take as part of the application process. All totalled, it costs about $500 to apply for a teaching job in this county and you don't get your money back if you aren't hired.
In most cases, whenever someone asks you to send *them* money to get a job, its a scam. However, in the Palm Beach County School Board, that's the way they really do it. Not only that, but teachers here are required to use their *own* personal money to buy supplies for the students.
A friend of mine's wife is a teacher. By the time everything is said and done, she averages about $15/hr for the actual school days which are about 6 hrs long.
As far as health insurance. Its the cheapest insurance that hasn't been shut down by the insurance commissioner.
Then there is the child assault factor. Kids are smart these days. They know that all they have to do is accuse a teacher of touching them inappropriately, and the teacher will be gone by the next day. Proof is not required. The teacher is at the mercy of such kids.
Teachers cannot paddle a misbehaving kid, nor can they even send them to the principal's office. However, its perfectly acceptable for a student to strike a teacher.
As far as becoming a teacher, no thanks!
Dennis.
I just wanted to jump in here, and say that I envy teachers. Sure, teachers (so far) get less money than many others. However, teachers get to enjoy summers off, good Christmas and other holidays. If I had to do over again, I would jump for a job that lets me have all summer off!
Last, but not least, teachers have tenure, good pensions, sick days and excellent (for little or no money) health coverage. A long time ago, someone told me that salary is not nearly important as the perquisites. He knew what he was talking about. Today, teachers can retire before the age of 50, have a lifelong salary, lifelong health insurance, etc.
Not trying to pick a fight here. Let me share my knowledge and experience with you. Virtually all teachers are cruising around/lying around enjoying the summer. I know lots of happy retired teachers, whose summers are now year-around.
Looking for a career? How can you beat teaching?
If money is that critical, consider a summer career to go along with your regular work. Or consider administrative positions in the educational profession. Far as I can tell, administrative positions in education typically pay MORE than software programming---and perhaps a similar amount to many electrical or computer engineer positions. And how secure are tech related jobs?
Katie, you watch. I am willing to bet you that after you attain the age of 50, you will have MORE income and MORE leisure time than your old college roomie has.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] maturity and sex
Oh, my goodness, so did mine!!!!
Ewwwww
When my husband heard his father had died, he immediately wanted to have sex I was completely appalled.
-------Original Message-------
- From
- Dapp58@...
- Date
- 7/7/2006 9:03:55 PM
- To
- [email protected]
- Subject
- [SPAM] Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] maturity and sex
sexual men equate love with sex. If they are sick they want sex, bored they want sex. whatever they are feeling they want sex.. that is what i have come to know. my H would have a 103 temp and try to get some. i do agree that i think they run from their feelings and run right to sex like it is the magical potion/ drug that will cure all......what bs....
pattern
I think you need to hang out in places that place an emphasis on spirituality and healing. New Age kind of places. Most people seem to focus on "survival" and especially right now with leadership promoting fear rather than confidence, many people are really in a bad place mentally. (I have a new respect for Winston Churchill, he really knew what to say without taking advantage of people.)
You know, I think I agree with you on this. I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybe God got sick. A while ago, I was watching Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth". I think he likes Winston Churchill too. He included one of Churchill's quotes "...we are entering a period of consequences." I was struck as he talked about what was happening to him when he tried to get the word out about Global Warming. The same thing that happened to the scientists when they reported their data on it. The same thing that happened to the scientists who reported that smoking causes cancer. The same thing that happened to the scientists who try to get accurate health/weight info on the human setpoint out there. The same thing that happened to advocates for any aspect of reality that seems to be getting squished.
I am into mysticism and while I don't spend much time on it now, it's really the only way that I am comfortable thinking about higher things in life. When I was in college, I minored in Jewish studies and took various courses that helped me understand the history better. The Dalai Lama says that two mystics from different religions understand each other better than a mystic and a non-mystic from the same religion. You might find your spiritual partner at a New Age Fair. Other options might be Renaissance Fairs and Crafts Fairs, or even Farmers Markets.
I have fun with all of this. I think my version of this was to get into astrophysics. (I am only an apprentice now lest anyone try to stereotype me or idealize my culture as smart. I can assure you we humans are all smart at some things and goobers at others.) In some strange way, I have sort of picked up some info on Jewish studies because there are so many Jewish people in my field. I can't say I am pro-Jewish. The "Jewish culture is superior" crap annoys me enormously. But I certainly won't say I am anti-Jew and I have no tolerance for anti-Jew crap in general either. It was good for me though. Our professor wouldn't schedule our exams on a Wednesday night because it was Passover. He would schedule them the next Monday morning and blow away Easter. He did not mean to. He just didn't know any other holidays besides his own. :-) I had to get a calendar with all the Jewish holidays on it so I could plan asking homework questions in office hours because all the profs disappear. And the calendars are wrong too! The prof always disappears dinnertime the night before the day the calendar says. Oh... the drama. There is a very deep pattern in the reality of things. It is unmistakable (spelling?) and it is there. Many cultures have stumbled across it in their own way. It would not surprise me that people who are deep in the pattern would be able to readily talk to each other, despite having arrived at a knowing of it from different cultural paths. Did you know that one of the Chinese words for physics is Wu Li? It means "patterns in organic energy". Sometimes in eastern culture, (Especially in Zen with this whole "emptiness is form and form is emptiness" ) there is a bizarre need to anorexorcise ( I made that word up. Combination of anorexia and exorcise) the abstract thinking mind. That is as incorrect as eliminating the feeling mind. Many people in the New Age community just plain hate science. And the science community has it's New Age haters too. I myself support perceptual minorities of all sorts. I have some friends who see auras and stuff. (Just don't call it Quantum Mechanics and miseducate people.) I've never been to a New Age fair. I'll have to try it. Renaissance Fairs are ok. I adore farm markets. I hang out in them all the time. Cool fruit quotes for you: (I just got a cool calendar that has fruit photos and cool quotes.) "Never be afraid to go out on a limb. That's where the fruit is." Anonymous "The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do." Galileo "Wishing to be friends is quick work. But friendship is a slow ripening fruit." Aristotle Maybe you could take up gardening and sell produce while you're looking. (-: I do have a balcony with my small apartment. I love gardening. I used to grow green peppers and tomatoes. This summer I like growing strawberries, flowers and my herb garden. I'm afraid I won't have any produce to sell because I snarf down all the strawberries and cook with my herbs. Now I have a bird feeder too because those pesky squirrels and birds and I were fighting over who gets to eat the strawberries. So I've distracted them with a bird feeder over on the other side of the balcony. :-) I am so wiley. heh heh heh. It's working too. Does anybody have fish? Cause those are awesome for healing and relaxation. Sometimes Mr and Mrs Fishy lay eggs too. Nicole
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] honey bees
On , Nicole M Bliss said:I think you need to hang out in places that place an emphasis on spirituality and healing. New Age kind of places. Most people seem to focus on "survival" and especially right now with leadership promoting fear rather than confidence, many people are really in a bad place mentally. (I have a new respect for Winston Churchill, he really knew what to say without taking advantage of people.)
You know, I think I agree with you on this. I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybe God got sick. A while ago, I was watching Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth". I think he likes Winston Churchill too. He included one of Churchill's quotes "...we are entering a period of consequences." I was struck as he talked about what was happening to him when he tried to get the word out about Global Warming. The same thing that happened to the scientists when they reported their data on it. The same thing that happened to the scientists who reported that smoking causes cancer. The same thing that happened to the scientists who try to get accurate health/weight info on the human setpoint out there. The same thing that happened to advocates for any aspect of reality that seems to be getting squished.
I am into mysticism and while I don't spend much time on it now, it's really the only way that I am comfortable thinking about higher things in life. When I was in college, I minored in Jewish studies and took various courses that helped me understand the history better. The Dalai Lama says that two mystics from different religions understand each other better than a mystic and a non-mystic from the same religion. You might find your spiritual partner at a New Age Fair. Other options might be Renaissance Fairs and Crafts Fairs, or even Farmers Markets.
I have fun with all of this. I think my version of this was to get into astrophysics. (I am only an apprentice now lest anyone try to stereotype me or idealize my culture as smart. I can assure you we humans are all smart at some things and goobers at others.) In some strange way, I have sort of picked up some info on Jewish studies because there are so many Jewish people in my field. I can't say I am pro-Jewish. The "Jewish culture is superior" crap annoys me enormously. But I certainly won't say I am anti-Jew and I have no tolerance for anti-Jew crap in general either. It was good for me though. Our professor wouldn't schedule our exams on a Wednesday night because it was Passover. He would schedule them the next Monday morning and blow away Easter. He did not mean to. He just didn't know any other holidays besides his own. :-) I had to get a calendar with all the Jewish holidays on it so I could plan asking homework questions in office hours because all the profs disappear. And the calendars are wrong too! The prof always disappears dinnertime the night before the day the calendar says. Oh... the drama. There is a very deep pattern in the reality of things. It is unmistakable (spelling?) and it is there. Many cultures have stumbled across it in their own way. It would not surprise me that people who are deep in the pattern would be able to readily talk to each other, despite having arrived at a knowing of it from different cultural paths. Did you know that one of the Chinese words for physics is Wu Li? It means "patterns in organic energy". Sometimes in eastern culture, (Especially in Zen with this whole "emptiness is form and form is emptiness" ) there is a bizarre need to anorexorcise ( I made that word up. Combination of anorexia and exorcise) the abstract thinking mind. That is as incorrect as eliminating the feeling mind. Many people in the New Age community just plain hate science. And the science community has it's New Age haters too. I myself support perceptual minorities of all sorts. I have some friends who see auras and stuff. (Just don't call it Quantum Mechanics and miseducate people.) I've never been to a New Age fair. I'll have to try it. Renaissance Fairs are ok. I adore farm markets. I hang out in them all the time. Cool fruit quotes for you: (I just got a cool calendar that has fruit photos and cool quotes.) "Never be afraid to go out on a limb. That's where the fruit is." Anonymous "The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do." Galileo "Wishing to be friends is quick work. But friendship is a slow ripening fruit." Aristotle Maybe you could take up gardening and sell produce while you're looking. (-: I do have a balcony with my small apartment. I love gardening. I used to grow green peppers and tomatoes. This summer I like growing strawberries, flowers and my herb garden. I'm afraid I won't have any produce to sell because I snarf down all the strawberries and cook with my herbs. Now I have a bird feeder too because those pesky squirrels and birds and I were fighting over who gets to eat the strawberries. So I've distracted them with a bird feeder over on the other side of the balcony. :-) I am so wiley. heh heh heh. It's working too. Does anybody have fish? Cause those are awesome for healing and relaxation. Sometimes Mr and Mrs Fishy lay eggs too. Nicole
You know, I think I agree with you on this. I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybeGod got sick.
I don't think we are sick at all. In a bee hive, there are queen bees, king bees, drone bees and worker bees. They all have their purpose in life. Some have a more glamorous purpose than others, but they all have some purpose.
In humans, there are heteros, gays and asexuals. Not everybody can be a glamorous hetero. According to some gay literature I have read, the existence of gays may have been God's way of stabilizing population growth. As such, the existence of asexuals may be for the same purpose. At the same time, both gays and asexuals are valuable members of society even though they don't increase its numbers significantly.
Dennis.
beehive
I don't think we are sick either. Thanks for those interesting thoughts. I like your beehive idea. Nicole
I don't think we are sick at all. In a bee hive, there are queen bees, king bees, drone bees and worker bees. They all have their purpose in life. Some have a more glamorous purpose than others, but they all have some purpose.
In humans, there are heteros, gays and asexuals. Not everybody can be a glamorous hetero. According to some gay literature I have read, the existence of gays may have been God's way of stabilizing population growth. As such, the existence of asexuals may be for the same purpose. At the same time, both gays and asexuals are valuable members of society even though they don't increase its numbers significantly.
life creating energy
So, if gay people are stereotypically in the thearter and very creative and do great hair, what do we do? Where does all our "life creating" energy go?
Nicole
P.S. Sorry I wrote so much today. I have to do a project so it may be a while before I can write more later.
Fwd: Questionaire
Send this back to the group with the appropriate answers.
1. Name/age: June/39
2. Gender: F
3. Race: Human
4. Geographic Location: Northeast
5. Have you ever had sex? (leave blank if the subject bothers you) yes.
6. What gender, if any, are you attracted to? male
7. Are you open about your non-sexuality? why - do I need to be?
8. Are you married? And if not, do you ever want to get married? Do you crave non-sexual romance? been there, done that...all finished. Crave no, but wouldn't turn it down.
9. Do you have or want children? have and they are keepers.
10. Do you like ANY human contact? of course.
11. Are you bothered by your asexuality? no
12. Do you date or desire companionship? Do you like to kiss? Sometimes, sometimes, and sometimes
13. Have you ruled out possible medical/psychological reasons for your disinterest in sex? No medical...and psychological says I have to admit I have a problem. I don't see a problem.
14. Were you sexually molested as a child either by adults or other children? No
15. When did you first start to realize that you were different from other people in terms of your sexuality? I have always felt different from other people ...feeling different about this wasn't different for me.
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] :-)
Ok. I just wanted to jump in here and say
I am so happy!!!! We're talking about all sorts of stuff besides just yes-sex, no-sex. It's like we are whole wonderful human beings!!!!
:-)
Happy to be on this list, Nicole
Ok. I just wanted to jump in here and say
I am so happy!!!! We're talking about all sorts of stuff besides just yes-sex, no-sex. It's like we are whole wonderful human beings!!!!
:-)
Glad you like it. I haven't seen this much activity on the list in awhile so we must be doing something interesting for a lot of people.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] maturity and sex
Oh, my goodness, so did mine!!!!
Ewwwww
Sandy Rabinowitz said:When my husband heard his father had died, he immediately wanted to have sex I was completely appalled.
-------Original Message-------
- From
- Dapp58@...
- Date
- 7/7/2006 9:03:55 PM
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- [email protected]
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- [SPAM] Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] maturity and sex
sexual men equate love with sex. If they are sick they want sex, bored they want sex. whatever they are feeling they want sex.. that is what i have come to know. my H would have a 103 temp and try to get some. i do agree that i think they run from their feelings and run right to sex like it is the magical potion/ drug that will cure all......what bs....
Sandy Rabinowitz said:When my husband heard his father had died, he immediately wanted to have sex I was completely appalled. Oh, my goodness, so did mine!!!!
Ewwwww
Actually, it makes sense to me. In times of bereavement, one reaction is to reach out to the living for affirmation of life. Sex is one expression of that.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] pattern
On , Nicole M Bliss said:I think you need to hang out in places that place an emphasis on spirituality and healing. New Age kind of places. Most people seem to focus on "survival" and especially right now with leadership promoting fear rather than confidence, many people are really in a bad place mentally. (I have a new respect for Winston Churchill, he really knew what to say without taking advantage of people.)
You know, I think I agree with you on this. I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybe God got sick. A while ago, I was watching Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth". I think he likes Winston Churchill too. He included one of Churchill's quotes "...we are entering a period of consequences." I was struck as he talked about what was happening to him when he tried to get the word out about Global Warming. The same thing that happened to the scientists when they reported their data on it. The same thing that happened to the scientists who reported that smoking causes cancer. The same thing that happened to the scientists who try to get accurate health/weight info on the human setpoint out there. The same thing that happened to advocates for any aspect of reality that seems to be getting squished.
I am into mysticism and while I don't spend much time on it now, it's really the only way that I am comfortable thinking about higher things in life. When I was in college, I minored in Jewish studies and took various courses that helped me understand the history better. The Dalai Lama says that two mystics from different religions understand each other better than a mystic and a non-mystic from the same religion. You might find your spiritual partner at a New Age Fair. Other options might be Renaissance Fairs and Crafts Fairs, or even Farmers Markets.
I have fun with all of this. I think my version of this was to get into astrophysics. (I am only an apprentice now lest anyone try to stereotype me or idealize my culture as smart. I can assure you we humans are all smart at some things and goobers at others.) In some strange way, I have sort of picked up some info on Jewish studies because there are so many Jewish people in my field. I can't say I am pro-Jewish. The "Jewish culture is superior" crap annoys me enormously. But I certainly won't say I am anti-Jew and I have no tolerance for anti-Jew crap in general either. It was good for me though. Our professor wouldn't schedule our exams on a Wednesday night because it was Passover. He would schedule them the next Monday morning and blow away Easter. He did not mean to. He just didn't know any other holidays besides his own. :-) I had to get a calendar with all the Jewish holidays on it so I could plan asking homework questions in office hours because all the profs disappear. And the calendars are wrong too! The prof always disappears dinnertime the night before the day the calendar says. Oh... the drama. There is a very deep pattern in the reality of things. It is unmistakable (spelling?) and it is there. Many cultures have stumbled across it in their own way. It would not surprise me that people who are deep in the pattern would be able to readily talk to each other, despite having arrived at a knowing of it from different cultural paths. Did you know that one of the Chinese words for physics is Wu Li? It means "patterns in organic energy". Sometimes in eastern culture, (Especially in Zen with this whole "emptiness is form and form is emptiness" ) there is a bizarre need to anorexorcise ( I made that word up. Combination of anorexia and exorcise) the abstract thinking mind. That is as incorrect as eliminating the feeling mind. Many people in the New Age community just plain hate science. And the science community has it's New Age haters too. I myself support perceptual minorities of all sorts. I have some friends who see auras and stuff. (Just don't call it Quantum Mechanics and miseducate people.) I've never been to a New Age fair. I'll have to try it. Renaissance Fairs are ok. I adore farm markets. I hang out in them all the time. Cool fruit quotes for you: (I just got a cool calendar that has fruit photos and cool quotes.) "Never be afraid to go out on a limb. That's where the fruit is." Anonymous "The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do." Galileo "Wishing to be friends is quick work. But friendship is a slow ripening fruit." Aristotle Maybe you could take up gardening and sell produce while you're looking. (-: I do have a balcony with my small apartment. I love gardening. I used to grow green peppers and tomatoes. This summer I like growing strawberries, flowers and my herb garden. I'm afraid I won't have any produce to sell because I snarf down all the strawberries and cook with my herbs. Now I have a bird feeder too because those pesky squirrels and birds and I were fighting over who gets to eat the strawberries. So I've distracted them with a bird feeder over on the other side of the balcony. :-) I am so wiley. heh heh heh. It's working too. Does anybody have fish? Cause those are awesome for healing and relaxation. Sometimes Mr and Mrs Fishy lay eggs too. Nicole
I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybe God got sick.
I'm assuming you are referring to the U.S.
We don't socialize the way we used to with our families and neighbors. Many people are isolated from each other and so they don't have the skills at getting along that used to be commonplace. I think the isolation is harmful to most people, since most people are not introverts. I hate to admit it, but the Internet might be part of the problem. We're substituting 'wired' instead of 'hanging out'.
Without practicing our social skills on a regular basis growing up, we don't learn how to evaluate and accept the body language and voice of strangers. The only people we're comfortable with are our immediate family members...
This would (and does) lead to problems affecting both the structure of society and the management of society (ie. politics).
On an international level, it will only be worse.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] life creating energy
So, if gay people are stereotypically in the thearter and very creative and do great hair, what do we do? Where does all our "life creating" energy go?
Nicole
P.S. Sorry I wrote so much today. I have to do a project so it may be a while before I can write more later.
So, if gay people are stereotypically in the thearter and very creative and do great hair, what do we do? Where does all our "life creating" energy go?
Mine goes to survival as a single person with a disability, with what's left over going to my family -- brother, sisters, parents, nephew, nieces...
I might start actually _making things_ after I retire.
My current job is in manufacturing, which is sort of creative.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] pattern
I can see your point and I can't say that I disagree with you, however, call me a cockeyed optmist, but on a global scale, I've always believed that the internet was our last best hope for peace. It allows us to communicate one on one without geo-political boundaries. You see, I've always felt that people are the same all over and that we share the same needs, hopes and dreams. It provides us with the ability to reach out...one mind touching another without prejudice or bias. Like I said...I'm a cockeyed optomist, feel free to disagree.
- From
- [email protected]
- To
- [email protected]
- Sent
- Sunday, July 09, 2006 9:29 PM
- Subject
- Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] pattern
I am slowly coming to believe that this is a spiritual illness. They want to fixate on the particularities of sexual orientation (I include us in that), or gender, or race or whatever. That is all the red herring. It isn't really about any of that. There is some sort of internal dis-integration happening inside them and they are using scapegoats to try and sew their souls back together. This spiritual illness seems to be happening in the large scale. If we are all cells in a larger body, maybe God got sick.
I'm assuming you are referring to the U.S.
We don't socialize the way we used to with our families and neighbors. Many people are isolated from each other and so they don't have the skills at getting along that used to be commonplace. I think the isolation is harmful to most people, since most people are not introverts. I hate to admit it, but the Internet might be part of the problem. We're substituting 'wired' instead of 'hanging out'.
Without practicing our social skills on a regular basis growing up, we don't learn how to evaluate and accept the body language and voice of strangers. The only people we're comfortable with are our immediate family members...
This would (and does) lead to problems affecting both the structure of society and the management of society (ie. politics).
On an international level, it will only be worse.
Therese Shellabarger - Civis Mundi - tlshell@...
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Singles don't get no respect.
Debra,
Take it from another Deborah, some guys never "get it" I dated one knuckle dragger who insisted that if sex wasn't involved, we weren't in a relationship. It's sad when people equate physical acts with emotions. I wish you luck.
Debbie
Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Marriage going sour
Hello, I wanted to mention that although some people lose there sexual drive due to SSRI anti-depressants, there are many who regain their sexual drive from the exact same medications. So it just depends upon the person's response to the medications.
Jen
- From
- "Dennis Hawkins" <n4mwd@...>
- To
- <[email protected]>
- Sent
- Monday, July 03, 2006 5:12 AM
- Subject
- Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Marriage going sour
When you say "new found asexuality" that sounds like it is not your sexual orientation, but rather a medical condition. I suggest you see a specialist in the matter. Also, I know that taking SSRI drugs like Paxil will destroy the sex drive.
People who are of the asexual sexual orientation are born that way. While they may marry and have sex because of social pressures, they don't become asexual after being heterosexual most of their lives.
Dennis.
On , dwoods012174 said:Hi. I have been with my husband for 12 years and we have a 7 year old child. Since our meeting I have had a hysterectomy due to cancer, thyroid cancer removed and major back fusion surgery. Needless to say, it has not been a bed of roses for either of us. I used to blame my new found asexuality on menopause but the doctors say with my meds (estrogen) that should not be the cause. I just do not want sex. And of course, he does. It causes so much stress. I feel like a failure. He feels unattractive and that I do not love or care for him anymore. No, I do not feel the heart palpatations kind of love I used to feel but does anyone after 12 years. If you do, more power to you. The bottom line, a divorce would kill our 7 year old who has moved as many times as years and is autistic. So I do not know what to do. I can not keep putting myself thru something physically that I do not want as it is wearing on my already low self-esteem. He does not understand and maybe most men would not but I am here and its happened so what do I do now. Any suggestions for D? I am open.