Haven for the Human Amoeba

Romance means you have deep seeded feelings for another person, feelings which aren't going to go anywhere no matter what happens. It also implies, for me, that there is a mutual trust and respect for each other. I may be asexual, but i am not devoid of feelings.

WOW!! You all are some of the most interesting thinkers on the net!! I'm sooo proud to be a part of this bunch!

Wagonboy, ya done made me pull out my dusty, old psych book from my college years! :o)

Abraham H. Maslow developed a hierarchy of needs theory which leads to self-actualization. The pyramid is as follows (Read from bottom to top):

5. Self-Actualization

4. Esteem Needs

3. Belongingness and Love Needs

2. Safety Needs

1. Physiological Needs

(Above information comes from p.217 of the 2nd Ed. of Psychology: A Concise Introduction by Terry F. Pettijohn)

I'm not going to launch into a lecture on Psychology here, Wagonboy got the basic message across about humans desiring to fill needs. Unfortunately, Maslow did include "sex" as a "physiological need" along with hunger, thirst, excercise, and rest. (Hey, it was just a "theory" anyway, right?)

Seeing as asexuals feel that "sex" is not a "need", we have been able to move past that need level and on to higher levels of need fulfillment such as belongingness, love, and esteem. We've all found this Club and it helps us feel as though we "belong" to something. When I came up with a very generalized definition of asexuality before, I did it that way so that we can all see how we "belong" to this group. I realize that each of us adds our own *spice* to the asexual definition and that's okay! We are asexuals...not robots. We DO experience feelings, a wide range of feelings. If you'll notice, Maslow puts the "love need" on a much higher level than the basic "sex need". On the same page in the above referenced book by Pettijohn, it states that Maslow suggests "as adults, we need to give and receive love". If someone desires love and "romance", that doesn't necessarily make that person any less asexual. Whether this "love and belonging need" is nature or nurture is another story. It exists for a lot of people, including some asexuals. Now what are we going to do about it?

hi. might as well introduce myself. i'm very shy but i've had some wine so i have some chemically induced courage.

i was once obsessed with sex. but i think that obsession was mostly the product of societal pressure and the fact that sex was always painted as something 'forbidden' and therefore to my young mind, 'exciting'. now i have to admit, for me right now it seems to be neither. rather for me right now it seems like a mechanical, sweaty pursuit of a elusive goal (orgasm.). and at this point i'm more interested in learning computer programming than learning to have an orgasm.

it was amazing to realize that i just didn't care that much, that sex just wasn't that much of a priority for me. that i cared about cuddling and backrubs so much more. that it was okay not to be a sex maniac.

i don't have anything against people who have sex. i want to make that very clear. but the sexual revolution to me seems very one sided: okay to be interested, but not okay to NOT be interested. because to not be interested is to be 'repressed' and to be 'repressed' is 'bad'. well so is making someone feel like a freak for not wanting to do something.

i still would like to have a relationship of some kind that involved love and cuddling and backrubs. i'm a glutton for affection. i'm not too sanguine about my chances though. what kind of guy is going to go for that? and i'm very shy..i have a real hard time meeting people.

i've been reading posts here and i did want to put in my two cents about the whole 'wanting a relationship' thing. i don't see anything wrong with an asexual wanting a relationship. it's of course probably best that they have it with someone like-minded, else one person is going to feel frustrated and the other pressured. but i don't see anything wrong with it. i don't believe in judging people, though i'll admit to being enough of a hypocrite to indulge in that often. feh.

well that's enough from me. later.

fiona

I'm not suggesting that as Asexual we should be deviod of such feelings. That would truely make us not human. The need to form relationships is a basic human need. But is the need to hold one relationship above all others a basic Human need, or just a cultureal projection? Remember that you have a relationship of some sort with every human being you know. Is it really a requirement that one relationship be that much more important than any other? Is romance something you must have or just one way out of many ways which you may relate to someone?

By the way, I know you've been reading this BRC, and just letting me fend for myself to see how well I can do this.

What is BRC? Inquiring minds want to know! He he.

So, I tend to agree that there really isn't any need for a "primary" relationship (whatever the heck that means). I think it is something that society has foisted upon us, making us feel we need that one "someone special", just in the same way we're made to feel we have to want and have sex or we're "abnormal."

In my life, there are relationships, just like in most people's lives. They range from the very close and abiding (and even these differ one from the other) to the casual and short-lived. I derive a good deal of enjoyment from them all.

X.

"The need to form relationships is a basic human need. But is the need to hold one relationship above all others a basic Human need, or just a cultureal projection?"

I totally agree with the above.

The only problem is that everyone else seems to hold one relationship above all others. So, if you don't do this too, on important moments in life, you're going to stand alone, because everyone puts "their partner" above of you.

For me, this wasn't that bad as long as I was a student, and the first years of my working life. Now, I'm 30, my friends settle down, and since I do not so, I stay behind. With good friends, but I never come at "their first place". At the moment, I don't think there's much choice; or you accept this or you follow culture's pressure to do the same as most people. I wished there was another choice. Maybe, you have some ideas ...?

"Is it really a requirement that one relationship be that much more important than any other? Is romance something you must have or just one way out of many ways which you may relate to someone?"

My personal answer to your last question is that romance is "one way out of many ways which you may relate to someone". I stated before that I am quite content with living "single and free". I'm free to hug whomever I please, free to love whomever I please, and free to go home alone and walk around with my underwear on top of my head if I please. :o) Referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs again, I'll use the need for food as an example to express my next statement. Everyone has a need for food. Some people prefer to satisfy that need with a chef's salad, others prefer to satisfy that need with a meat-lover's pizza! To each his/her own, I say. Some asexuals can live happily alone for life, others prefer to share life's ups and downs with someone "special". I don't like the idea of questioning the validity of an asexual's desire to share his or her life with someone "special". That's his or her choice to do so. Why limit ourselves (as someone else asked earlier)? Now since some asexuals would like to experience a romantic, non-sexual relationship with another human being, let's challenge our minds to help them find and cultivate such relationships. It's hard to imagine now because these relationships are virtually unheard of, but we need to present the possibilities of having such relationships to society at large. Over time, people will be able to visualize an asexual romance if we present them with a picture. I may sound like I'm "all talk" here, but I've actually done something about it already. A few months ago, I wrote and illustrated a children's fairytale about a young woman who learns that she can "live happily ever after" without a "prince" in her life. I'm going to self-publish it so I have to save up some money first. I just self-published my first book (unrelated topic) so I have to start saving all over again. Anyway, this fairytale will be an "eye-opener" for society to see that the single life doesn't have to be a miserable one. (Later, I just might write a sequel where another young lady has an asexual romance!) Bottom line is, don't knock sliced bread just because it's new. I'm happy living single and free, but I would like to pave the way for others to satisfy their social needs with romance.

PS, X: BRC is also known as "bloodieredcommie". He is a member of this club.

Appologies, platonicpimp, I just got back to school and I've been a bit busy.

Let me say that I'm really really psyched that we're talking about relationships. I agree with most of what people have been saying. As asexuals we inherintly fly in the face of the common understanding of relationships. So we question the notion that romance is inherintly sexual, that romantic relationships are better than platonic ones, and also that "primary" relationships are necessary in the first place. I'm going to go on a brief tangent which will hopefully become relevant to this discussion:

My latest kick (if you will) is the notion that sex itself isn't really that important, its all of the implications that people attach to it. One of the biggest implications seems to be that sex is a way to "claim" people. This ranges from trophy-acquisition sex to a sort of claiming that's very important to romantic relationships. One of the biggest traits of romance seems to be that sort of claiming, as csbealed says:

"Romance means you have deep seeded feelings for another person, feelings which aren't going to go anywhere no matter what happens." Having a permanent relationship with someone implies claiming them. This sort of claming seems to be an infinate source of amusement (and bemusement) to sexual people, but how necessary is it? It's possible to form very close relationships without that sort of claiming, but problematic (as the person you're in a relationship with could get claimed and swept away at any moment.) Just throwing a term out there. How do we, as asexuals, feel about "claiming" each other in relationships? About "claiming" sexual people?

I just noticed that we now have 65 members! Welcome, all of you new folks!! Don't mind us, we're a bunch of intellectual minds who are not shy about sharing our opinions with each other. Feel free to jump in with your two cents at any time. (I'm sure that I've thrown in about fifty cents by now - LOL!)

BRC, I apologize for misspelling your Yahoo ID. It's "bloodyredcommie", not "bloodieredcommie".

Thanks, celibbrat, for explaining BRC (duh, on my part!), and for telling us about your fairytale book...it sounds really interesting.

X.

You're welcome. I'm hoping to have the fairytale published by this summer. The illustrations are in color and that can be expensive so I'm countin' my pennies. - LOL

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Know what I had my eyes on?

That's right, that bowling pin.

Wish I had a gold one, or like a necklace. That'd be sweet.

Hahaha.

That's a very nice bowling pin.

What a stupid place to advertise such a site.

I'm not so much saying that Asexula specifically need to question the need for a "Primary partner." I'm trying to say that all of society should question this assumption, and as asexuals (and allies) we may be in a better position to pose the question than others.

I brought this up because for a while it seemed everyone was bemoning that their asexuality forever cut them off from having a "Primary partner" becuase their partner would either want sex or put their sexual relations first. While that statement may have supporting evidence, theoretically it is possible to:

A. Find such a relationship. Others on the board have done so, so we have evidence for that.

B. Exist a happy and fufilled existance without one. There is no real need to hold one relationship above others, or to have your relationship held above all others. It's harder to find evidence of this because (in limited correlational case studies) those that are self assured enough not to need this sort of relationship seem to have an edge in aquiring and maintaining such a relationship.

Any conclusion I wrote down here came off sappy or patronizing,which is definately not my intent, so I'm giving up as a writer and leaving it as is.

I hate it when I miss a typo.

BRC, make sure to add an edit function to any BBS you make. BTW, you know my Email, so just sign me up for the listserve.

Thanks for the refresher course in pyschology. Although don't remember Maslow's being stated as you presented it. Then again, for any 8 AM class, I was not very attentive if I actually appeared at all.

I can understand where a generalized version of Asexuality could be beneficial. Imagine my confusion if there were different factions of Asexuals out there all competing and promoting their views with each other. At this point, that would not be healthy or beneficial.

Does that make any sense?

In a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, it is simple to tell when one or both partners are cheating. They are having sexuals affairs with someone other than their partner.

How does one know if one or both partners is cheating in an asexual relationship? A partner catches the other holding hands with another? Or, something more complicated than that. Is the partner spending more time with someone else than their chosen partner? I simply don't know. How is Asexual Romantic Relationship defined?

I surround myself with good friends so I don't see myself as living life as alone. Sometimes though I would like to have a free weekend to do nothing at all.

Ok, to me this question of cheating is really really important. One of the perks of sexuality (it seems) is the notion of monogamy, the idea that you can have an intimate relationship with someone which won't go away. It's a bit problematic (after all, what's really permanent?) but also a bit necessary. If you want to make life decisions with another person (living situation, kids) then you need to know that your relationship with them will be stable over a period of time, which means that the relationship is given priority over other relationships. So how can asexual people give certain relationships priority (make them "primary"?) Sexual people seem to do this by saying that sexual relationships automatically get priority over nonsexual ones, and then by only being sexual with one person. So not only do we not have a good way to be monogomous (which we need if we want to have kids with someone, which I know I do), but we're ruining it for everyone else. By saying that nonsexual relationships are just as important as sexual ones we're saying that nonsexual friendships can pose a threat to monogamous sexual relationships. Nonsexual relationships CAN take priority over sexual ones. The introduction of asexuality means that Joe's girlfriend can leave him for someone she's not sexually involved with, which throws the entire notion of sexual monogomy out of whack. So monogamy is both necessary (living together, kids, not having your friend monogamously "claimed" by someone else) and dysfunctional. Shit.

"Imagine my confusion if there were different factions of Asexuals out there all competing and promoting their views with each other. At this point, that would not be healthy or beneficial."

LOL!--It seems to me that's all we do in this club!

"Thanks for the refresher course in pyschology. Although don't remember Maslow's being stated as you presented it. Then again, for any 8 AM class, I was not very attentive if I actually appeared at all."

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic when I quoted the information about Maslow's theory from one of my college psychology books. I just wanted to provide a citation for others if they wanted to look up the theory you mentioned. I actually have a BA in Psychology, but I know that my interpretation of someone else's "theory" is exactly that...my interpretation. In my previous message, I gave my "interpretation" of an aspect of asexuality using Maslow's "theory" (sorta like what you did, Wagonboy). I hope that clarifies my presentation of his theory.

As for this cheating business?...I don't know. I'll have to think on it for a while so I'm not going to throw in my usual fifty cents just yet. :o) Well...ok maybe just two cents:

My first thoughts about this subject include "emotion" and "time". Some of our club members have already stated that they didn't like being flung aside by friends who put their sexual relationships before their asexual relationships. I think that you can emotionally "cheat" on a primary asexual friend if you take for granted the time that you spend together. (I would like to continue, but I promised just two cents this time!)

So I'm currently deep in the dark dank land of monogamy theory, I'm going to different parties around campus and getting their 2 cents, still waiting on word from the polyamorous crowd, who usually have the most interesting theory. The interesting bit that I though I'd throw out is that the peopel I've talked to so far all seem to agree that a nonsexual friendship can be a serious threat to a monogamous sexual relationship. So monogamy in a sexual context somehow deals with all of this stuff around emotion and time as well. Still don't quite know how..

-DJ

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Is there anyone in this club from the east coast? (everyone seems to be from cali.) I ask because I'm on the planning commitee for my campus QUAD (queer awareness days) which take place during the month of april. I'm of course planning to do another asexuality lecture, but I was thinking it would be even better if people could drive down for some sort of panel. We could probably arrange it over e-mail so the entire sketchiness-of-meeting-internet-people thing is minimized. Post or e-mail me if your interested, djay@...

OK, someone doesn't get the point easy. Anyone else feel patronized? "oh, they just need a little encouragement."

I do have a fun Idea though.

(signs on to the club, access her webcam and chat.)

"what would you like me to do?"

"Put on some clothes. Now read a book. No not that one. It's called 'Boston Marriages.' I think you'll find it enlightening."

"Don't you want me to..."

"No. Perhaps you'd like to discuss the effect society has on sexuality?"

"Not really."

"Have you ever questioned why Society Places so much importance on sexual reltionships over Platonic Ones?"

"No.... LIsten, Are you sure you don't want me to..."

"consider the possibility that sex is highly overvalued? why yes, In fact that is what I want you to do."

(Connection terminated at source.)

hehehe. Ok, it was funny when I thought of it.