Re: Good to be back--GLBT
Go asexual engineer/theorists..
I REALLY like the wheel model that you propose, traka. Mostly becuase it's important to realize that gender isn't aset dichodemy, it's a spectrum too. Gender isn't really about genetalia, it's about performance. There aren't just "male" and "female", in fact there isn't just a spectrum between the two, there's a wide wide plane of possible gender performance. Hence "vectors" of sexual attraction become even more complicated. Here's my one question with the circle: what are on "opposite" sides of the circle, that is to say, what cancels out?
This is exactly what we're talking about in the Visibility group on my campus (which has sadly lost some steam as of late). Somewhere way back someone used a radio as a metaphor for sexual attraction. The dial or radio station is what someone is attracted to, the volume knob is how much they are attracted to that. Asexuals are the ones who's volume knobs are turned down to inaudible levels. If you consider how much noise is made by everyone elses radios, then being inaudible doesn't mean that your volume is totally off. I don't know, I just always liked this one.
BRC, I can't wait to see the article for Valentines day. If you can get it here to me I could put it out throught the visibility group for valentines day here as well. I like the Irony, and since many people get miserable with all the sexuality stuff because of valentines day, they'll probably be more receptive.
I know, I know, I've asked everyone to write something about a thousand times, but I really want a true asexual's comments on living asexual to put out, not just my semi-developed understanding of asexual theory.
theory 1
In a little book about bisexuality, I read the theory (1980) of Michael Storms, a psychologist. According to Storms, bisexuality isnt something between heterosexuality and homosexuality. He sees bisexuality as complete heterosexuality and complete homosexuality. There was also an illustration: on the x-axis, is the degree of hetero-eroticism (from low to high), on the Y-axis is the degree of homo-eroticism (also from low to high).
Upperleft corner = homosexuals;
upper right corner = bisexuals;
under right corner = heterosexuals;
AND ....
under left corner = asexuals!!
Interesting is that asexuals have also a place is this model.
theory 2
According to the same little book, Fritz Klein (1985) extended the Kinsey-scale, because he thought that just the sexual behaviour was to narrow to describe people's sexuality.
He considered 7 things:
1. sexual attraction (to whom you fgeel attracted)
2. sexual behaviour (whom you have sexual contact with)
3. sexual fantasies
4. emotional preference (whom you have strong emotional bondings with)
5. social preference (with who you feel most at ease)
6. self-identification (how you call yourself, how you see yourself)
7. lifestyle (in what groups do you feel good, which kind of people do you try to meet, ...)
Personally, I find this enriching, much more than an axis from 0 to 6.
In all of these 7 items, you can fill in hetero / homo / lesbo/ bi /a, ...
This gives a colourful, beautiful image of all kinds of nuances.
Re: theory 1
In a little book about bisexuality, I read the theory (1980) of Michael Storms, a psychologist. According to Storms, bisexuality isnt something between heterosexuality and homosexuality. He sees bisexuality as complete heterosexuality and complete homosexuality. There was also an illustration: on the x-axis, is the degree of hetero-eroticism (from low to high), on the Y-axis is the degree of homo-eroticism (also from low to high).
Upperleft corner = homosexuals;
upper right corner = bisexuals;
under right corner = heterosexuals;
AND ....
under left corner = asexuals!!
Interesting is that asexuals have also a place is this model.
Thanks to your lead, I was able to locate this interesting article on the web:
<a href=http://www.endhomophobia.org/BeyondGay.htm target=new>http://www.endhomophobia.org/BeyondGay.htm</a>
It discusses the inadequacies of the Kinsey Scale, and Michael Storms theories, as well as mentioning asexualism here and there.
spectrum, probability, alternation
Go asexual engineer/theorists..
I REALLY like the wheel model that you propose, traka. Mostly becuase it's important to realize that gender isn't aset dichodemy, it's a spectrum too. Gender isn't really about genetalia, it's about performance. There aren't just "male" and "female", in fact there isn't just a spectrum between the two, there's a wide wide plane of possible gender performance. Hence "vectors" of sexual attraction become even more complicated. Here's my one question with the circle: what are on "opposite" sides of the circle, that is to say, what cancels out?
AGREE, everything is a spectrum. in fact the probability for someone being 0.00 on the kinsey scale or 6.00 on the kinsey scale is ZERO, cause consider the probablility of a number in the (0,6), all real number
also there is alternation, we have to admit that human thoughts alters (i hate to admit it, but we do) (i am an engineer, all the non-living doesnt alter, and i admire the "stability" of non-living objects) the bottom line is, you will alter around the same vicinity, just like there was a message oneself is gay, is gay afterall even if they tried to sleep with women or been hetero for a period of time; similarly..
BLAME IT ALL ON the sexologist in the 70s, after they have educated everyone about "everyone should have a sex drive"; women were not suppose to have sex drive before all the sex and femalist movements (according to book-"boston marriage")
Re: Good to be back--GLBT
This is exactly what we're talking about in the Visibility group on my campus (which has sadly lost some steam as of late). Somewhere way back someone used a radio as a metaphor for sexual attraction. The dial or radio station is what someone is attracted to, the volume knob is how much they are attracted to that. Asexuals are the ones who's volume knobs are turned down to inaudible levels. If you consider how much noise is made by everyone elses radios, then being inaudible doesn't mean that your volume is totally off. I don't know, I just always liked this one.
BRC, I can't wait to see the article for Valentines day. If you can get it here to me I could put it out throught the visibility group for valentines day here as well. I like the Irony, and since many people get miserable with all the sexuality stuff because of valentines day, they'll probably be more receptive.
I know, I know, I've asked everyone to write something about a thousand times, but I really want a true asexual's comments on living asexual to put out, not just my semi-developed understanding of asexual theory.
I really like the radio analogy also. I know my volume is not totally shut off, to do that, for myself, i would have to be dead. At my university, the powers that be are touting "Single's Awareness Day" or SAD in place of Valentine's Day. I find that funny.
I am confused about platonicpimp's last sentence. Could someone please explain.
As for the GLBT movement at my school, they people i have talked to are receptive to asexuals, but have failed to see how the GLBT movement can help asexuals. I have found these people more understanding than many of my heterosexual friends.
As for the tests to show sexuality, i think they try to boil way too much down into a few simple questions. I know i could not explain my sexuality by answering a few questions. It would be too hard for me and too confusing for someone to analyze.
Re: Effect and Cause
Hi Allan,
You wrote "I wish could like xzprtlq." Does this mean you don't like me? Or did you mean "I wish I could be like xzprtlq?" :o)
Anyway, I hope I didn't sound like I was bragging about my life or myself, because it has taken me many, many years to get where I am (I'm 60), and my life is still full of challenges. When I was 31 I was pretty lost, I can tell you.
I had to get away from the seemingly endless not-so-merry-go-round of chasing after what I thought was love. It always ended up in messy, emotional, distracting sexual relationships, and I'm very glad to be free of all that now. Also I study metaphysics, and that has helped me considerably. I think humans have the tendency to repeat false patterns over and over until they finally wake up. I know it has been true of me.
X.
Whoa. This Yahoo! Club web site is possibliably out growing its home. I am gone for a couple days and wham!. You guys have presented at least two or three different ideas. It is going to take hours to catch up with all the new information.
Incidentally, navigation can be tricky as well. It takes a couple trips throught the web site to master it. Might be a bit daunting to new comers.
Any way, xzprtlq don't take my comments as personal. Just statements. My personality is almost void of any emotion. So, admittedly, at times, I can come off as a bit rude without my knowledge. Many apologies.
I don't have many dreams such as a desirable career or to become a millionaire. I meant that would be nice to have a few dreams to strive for. When one attains the basics, there is not much to motivate one to the next level. I live a very simple life with very few needs.
Aka. History repeats itself. Personally, I believe that sex makes us humans delusional. I have many friends who make so many bad choices when it comes to partners. I can see their partners faults. Why can't they see them before it is too late? SEX is the only answer that I can come up with.
Allan
Re: Asexual Organizing Listserve
Ok. I've set up a listserve for asexual organizing, asexuality@.... I know it may seem a little redundant, but it seems like this forum is devoted more to chatting than organizing, so it can't hurt to have another threat. calibrat, I know you were interested in joining, but I need your E-mail. If people who are interested in joining could E-mail me at djay@... that would be phenominal. I want to get off the ground organizing some sort of a neat information packet on asexuality (all the sites seem to have their own, but a collaborated one) and working to plan visibility stuff.
P.S. I'm E-mailing the author of "Boston Marraiges" on asexuality and intimacy, I'll get back to everyone with the results...
BRC,
Forutnately, you have all of our Email addresses. The question is how many of us check our Email from this Club's assigned ID or any other Yahoo! web site for that matter. If you can get everyone to check there Email for the Yahoo! ID in this club, a lot of your work is started.
I would be interested in what you had in mind.
Perhaps, if you put together a basic proposal and Emailed it out to everyone, you could get some helpful input for this organization.
I have not checked out any asexual web sites recently. The last time I checked, the pickings were few. It might be time to consider a well thought out and informative web site.
Allan
Re: Effect and Cause
Whoa. This Yahoo! Club web site is possibliably out growing its home. I am gone for a couple days and wham!. You guys have presented at least two or three different ideas. It is going to take hours to catch up with all the new information.
Incidentally, navigation can be tricky as well. It takes a couple trips throught the web site to master it. Might be a bit daunting to new comers.
Any way, xzprtlq don't take my comments as personal. Just statements. My personality is almost void of any emotion. So, admittedly, at times, I can come off as a bit rude without my knowledge. Many apologies.
I don't have many dreams such as a desirable career or to become a millionaire. I meant that would be nice to have a few dreams to strive for. When one attains the basics, there is not much to motivate one to the next level. I live a very simple life with very few needs.
Aka. History repeats itself. Personally, I believe that sex makes us humans delusional. I have many friends who make so many bad choices when it comes to partners. I can see their partners faults. Why can't they see them before it is too late? SEX is the only answer that I can come up with.
Allan
Hi Allan,
I wasn't at all offended by your post...thought it was kind of nice, actually. Anyway, I also live a very simple life with few friends, and when I mentioned about my dreams coming true, it's just that I've had this band since 1984 and finally got to record it. I honestly think this has happened because I stopped getting involved in sexual relationships (including marriage).
Yes! Yes! Sex makes many people delusional! I made many, many bad choices for partners...it was as if I was stoned or brainwashed. When I think about those men now (except for possibly one)I cringe.
X.
Asexual Musings for the general public
I really like the radio analogy also. I know my volume is not totally shut off, to do that, for myself, i would have to be dead. At my university, the powers that be are touting "Single's Awareness Day" or SAD in place of Valentine's Day. I find that funny.
I am confused about platonicpimp's last sentence. Could someone please explain.
As for the GLBT movement at my school, they people i have talked to are receptive to asexuals, but have failed to see how the GLBT movement can help asexuals. I have found these people more understanding than many of my heterosexual friends.
As for the tests to show sexuality, i think they try to boil way too much down into a few simple questions. I know i could not explain my sexuality by answering a few questions. It would be too hard for me and too confusing for someone to analyze.
I've been asked to write a pamphlete on Asexuality for my campus GLBTQ group. I feel ill equiped to do so since I am not an Asexual myself, simply a supporter of the movement. So I have been trying to get some people on this site to write a little on their experience as an asexual for me to use in my article. I don;t really have a deadline, but It would be nice to get it out around valentines day. So anyone interested Please email me your text at PlatonicPimp@...
Re: Asexual Organizing Listserve
BRC,
Forutnately, you have all of our Email addresses. The question is how many of us check our Email from this Club's assigned ID or any other Yahoo! web site for that matter. If you can get everyone to check there Email for the Yahoo! ID in this club, a lot of your work is started.
I would be interested in what you had in mind.
Perhaps, if you put together a basic proposal and Emailed it out to everyone, you could get some helpful input for this organization.
I have not checked out any asexual web sites recently. The last time I checked, the pickings were few. It might be time to consider a well thought out and informative web site.
Allan
I encourage everyone to try and write something for platonicpimp, I'm working on something but my semester is off the wall. Sorry, bostongirl. My life's been a bit e-mail saturated lately.
Wagonboy:it looks like most people don't use their yahoo e-mail. Most have their e-mail listed as "private."
In terms of organizing, I think that some sort of a collaborative website would be a really great idea, if we could pull it off. I feel like right now all the websites/organizing are sort of disjointedly connected through this forum, I think it would be ideal to have some sort of an "organizing wing" of the amoebas that collaborates to do things. The problem, of course, is communicating, because E-mail sucks for stuff like this. I've set up a seperate listserve, asexuality@..., that's devoted to asexual organizing but its been pretty inactive recently. What would people say to having a general brainstorming session in the club chat room at some prearranged time? It's difficult to plan, but you can't really do brainwashing/consensus over e-mail. How many people could make 8-9PM EST next monday, the 11th? E-mail me yes, no, or alternative times at djay@... so we don't flood the forum.
Kinsey Week!!
Wow!! Bring on the geometry. Next week: Quantum Relationship Mechanics(relationships can not be measured directly, only in terms of probability. The more accurately you know the status (position) of a relationship the less accurately you can gauge it relative to other relationships (wavelength.) idy/dt. Teehee.) I mention LGBTQ stuff just because I think it will be vital to organizing. It seems like they have experience with this type of organizing and, if they can be properly ingratiated, can provide a decent amount of muscle. I think that there's a good deal of mutual benefit can be derived from a dialogue between us and the "sexual world", at is seems like a good idea to start with people who are used to thinking abstractly about sexuality. (Beyond "straight is great, lets all date.")
Valentines Day
Wow!! Bring on the geometry. Next week: Quantum Relationship Mechanics(relationships can not be measured directly, only in terms of probability. The more accurately you know the status (position) of a relationship the less accurately you can gauge it relative to other relationships (wavelength.) idy/dt. Teehee.) I mention LGBTQ stuff just because I think it will be vital to organizing. It seems like they have experience with this type of organizing and, if they can be properly ingratiated, can provide a decent amount of muscle. I think that there's a good deal of mutual benefit can be derived from a dialogue between us and the "sexual world", at is seems like a good idea to start with people who are used to thinking abstractly about sexuality. (Beyond "straight is great, lets all date.")
Ok, last post I promise. My editor told me to have a valentines day tie-in for the article I'm working on, so I just wanted people to throw out (as quickly as possible, my deadline is saturday!) their thoughts/feelings/plans on valentines day.
Re: Valentines Day
Ok, last post I promise. My editor told me to have a valentines day tie-in for the article I'm working on, so I just wanted people to throw out (as quickly as possible, my deadline is saturday!) their thoughts/feelings/plans on valentines day.
Hopefully I'll sleep through it.
Re: Valentines Day
Ok, last post I promise. My editor told me to have a valentines day tie-in for the article I'm working on, so I just wanted people to throw out (as quickly as possible, my deadline is saturday!) their thoughts/feelings/plans on valentines day.
Valentines Day: I used to hate it, back when I resented the position I was in. Now I really don't care. I suppose some people enjoy having a day they can set aside for their "Primary Partner" :) To me, it seems a little trite, but I'm cynical by nature.
My attitude about it is like most other things. They enjoy it, let them have their fun. I'll be working on a project of my own design that evening, just like every other evening.
Meeting next Monday: 9:00pm would be best for me. I am nocturnal, and it would be easier for me to wake up an hour early instead of two.
"straight customs" for v-day
well, for v-day, i like to bring a box of fine chocolate and let my friends have them. since i love them all so much.
i willl go out with a bunch of my friends that are not dating, just have a group fun day.
otherwise its just a normal working day
Re: Hello, I'm new -- To kristen
I just thought I'd introduce myself. I'm Kristin and I'm 21. I've been confused for most of my adult(?) life and have gone everywhere from gay to bisexual to straight and now I'm rethinking things over again. I didn't know there were people who identified as asexual until very recently. I think it's wonderful that so many people are 'coming out' as asexual and are coming to terms with it as a sexuality. I've never been interested in intimate relationships (I've rather been indirectly pressured into dating), but I am a people person and like to spend time socializing with friends. I don't plan on dating for a long time, but I do want to keep my options open. I won't shun someone who proves that they might be the right person for me. I would like to know what others think about platonic asexual relationships and the many different ways that people live celibate lives.
Hey there Kristen, I just read your post on the ameoba site, and I see u are in the exact same position! I am also a 21 female and throughout my
life at different times I have thought I was straight,gay, bisexual, asexual, everything. I consider myself "simply not thinking aobout it" right now but that could change hahah. I
still have no idea what I am if I even AM interested in any kinda sex! Sometimes I think I am then othertimes I think I'm not. I haven't had a lot of dating experience anyway and have never had a real relationship. I'm not that interested in getting one,
its just that when all my friends have steady
relationships it makes me feel like I need one. I
think if it wasn't known as the norm I would be
perfectly happy remaining single my whole life.
Anyawyz it was cool to read ur post cuz its nice to know there are others out there who feel like that.
If you wanna write back we could chat and stuff,
compare thoughts, I have an aim name too we could talk on IM. Alrighty well talk to u later :)
Liz
ps-this isn't just for kristen anyone else who feels like contacting me and talking can email me at kidz2alabama55@...
Asexuals dating
Hey there Kristen, I just read your post on the ameoba site, and I see u are in the exact same position! I am also a 21 female and throughout my
life at different times I have thought I was straight,gay, bisexual, asexual, everything. I consider myself "simply not thinking aobout it" right now but that could change hahah. I
still have no idea what I am if I even AM interested in any kinda sex! Sometimes I think I am then othertimes I think I'm not. I haven't had a lot of dating experience anyway and have never had a real relationship. I'm not that interested in getting one,
its just that when all my friends have steady
relationships it makes me feel like I need one. I
think if it wasn't known as the norm I would be
perfectly happy remaining single my whole life.
Anyawyz it was cool to read ur post cuz its nice to know there are others out there who feel like that.
If you wanna write back we could chat and stuff,
compare thoughts, I have an aim name too we could talk on IM. Alrighty well talk to u later :)
Liz
ps-this isn't just for kristen anyone else who feels like contacting me and talking can email me at kidz2alabama55@...
Someone wrote me to ask why I was looking to date even though I wasn't interested in the sexual stuff. Here is what I wrote him as an answer. Let me know what you all think.
You asked me why I feel the need to "date" people if I am not interested in the sexual stuff? Well the same could be asked about our mainstream sexual society. People who like to go out and have sex, they could easily just go around to different clubs, get their hormonal fix, and then go to sleep for another day. (Many actually do). However, most people tend to want to date, find one special person. Technically there is no need for them to do this either.
So why would I want to? For the same reason that anyone does. And that would be a future family. No one wants to grow old alone, and while friends are good, they get their own significant others and their own families to worry about. Eventually, as the sad fact is, if you don't find that "one" special person to marry you live a lonely life. I do want to find that person or at least keep my options open. And I do want a family.
I think asexuals dating is a great idea. Looking for someone you click with and could build up a friendship to the point of considering spending the rest of your life together and starting a family. This has to do with love, and not sex. I fully believe you can love someone in the same way sexuals do without having any sexual relationship. You can still cuddle, share deep thoughts, and experience life and grow and learn together.
I hope that answered your question as to why I feel the need to date :)
Liz
Re: theory 2
According to the same little book, Fritz Klein (1985) extended the Kinsey-scale, because he thought that just the sexual behaviour was to narrow to describe people's sexuality.
He considered 7 things:
1. sexual attraction (to whom you fgeel attracted)
2. sexual behaviour (whom you have sexual contact with)
3. sexual fantasies
4. emotional preference (whom you have strong emotional bondings with)
5. social preference (with who you feel most at ease)
6. self-identification (how you call yourself, how you see yourself)
7. lifestyle (in what groups do you feel good, which kind of people do you try to meet, ...)
Personally, I find this enriching, much more than an axis from 0 to 6.
In all of these 7 items, you can fill in hetero / homo / lesbo/ bi /a, ...
This gives a colourful, beautiful image of all kinds of nuances.
I like this system of 'classifying' your sexual or non sexual orientation a lot more. I'm gonna have to check this book out.
Re: Valentines Day
Valentines Day: I used to hate it, back when I resented the position I was in. Now I really don't care. I suppose some people enjoy having a day they can set aside for their "Primary Partner" :) To me, it seems a little trite, but I'm cynical by nature.
My attitude about it is like most other things. They enjoy it, let them have their fun. I'll be working on a project of my own design that evening, just like every other evening.
Meeting next Monday: 9:00pm would be best for me. I am nocturnal, and it would be easier for me to wake up an hour early instead of two.
Valentine's has been the same ever since 5th grade. Watch everyone else get all lovey dovey exchanging gifts and what not, then feel bad. However for the last couple of years, I just came up with a new philosophy which is especially helpful on valentine's day. FID. The world's easiest religion.
no 1 rule about FID
FID
no 2 rule about FID
FID
and for those curious what FID stands for, hopefully yahoo will let me post this
FID = 'FUCK IT DUDE'
Re: Asexuals dating
Someone wrote me to ask why I was looking to date even though I wasn't interested in the sexual stuff. Here is what I wrote him as an answer. Let me know what you all think.
You asked me why I feel the need to "date" people if I am not interested in the sexual stuff? Well the same could be asked about our mainstream sexual society. People who like to go out and have sex, they could easily just go around to different clubs, get their hormonal fix, and then go to sleep for another day. (Many actually do). However, most people tend to want to date, find one special person. Technically there is no need for them to do this either.
So why would I want to? For the same reason that anyone does. And that would be a future family. No one wants to grow old alone, and while friends are good, they get their own significant others and their own families to worry about. Eventually, as the sad fact is, if you don't find that "one" special person to marry you live a lonely life. I do want to find that person or at least keep my options open. And I do want a family.
I think asexuals dating is a great idea. Looking for someone you click with and could build up a friendship to the point of considering spending the rest of your life together and starting a family. This has to do with love, and not sex. I fully believe you can love someone in the same way sexuals do without having any sexual relationship. You can still cuddle, share deep thoughts, and experience life and grow and learn together.
I hope that answered your question as to why I feel the need to date :)
Liz
I have to disagree, not everyone has the desire to get married, have a family, find that 'special someone'. We're all culturally programmed to think that way. Personally, I have no desire to ever get married and have a family. It may go against millions of years of natural selection, but I think that my genes don't need to be passed on. What good does that do me? And the whole 'special person' thing, why do we need to confide our deepest thoughts, our strongest emotions for one person? Do they even have to be confided in a real person? Maybe I'm just young and naive. Maybe I have a different outlook on life. However, I do see agree with you that asexual dating is a good thing.
Re: Valentines Day
Ok, last post I promise. My editor told me to have a valentines day tie-in for the article I'm working on, so I just wanted people to throw out (as quickly as possible, my deadline is saturday!) their thoughts/feelings/plans on valentines day.
For Valentine's Day, I plan to love myself just as I do every day. I wrote a very simple poem/song for the main character of my non-traditional fairy tale. You can put it in your article if you'd like (you too, Platonicpimp):
"Minda's Song"
Look at me
Single and free
I'm as happy
As can be
Please don't tie
Knots on me
I just want
To be free
Free to do this
Free to do that
Free to wear
A silly hat
Look at me
Single and free
I'm as happy
As can be
(c)2001 by Gabby C.
This poem pretty much sums up how I feel about being myself. I posted it on another Yahoo forum a while ago (my apologies to those who are reading it again). This poem still reflects my mindset about how I feel. When I started to question my sexuality, I thought that I just became a voluntary celibate. Now I know that I have always been an asexual. For me, Valentine's Day is another day to love myself for being true to myself. Right now, I have no plans to go out and do anything in particular on that day. (I'll wait until a few days later to buy myself some chocolate since it usually goes on sale afterwards!) Other than that, I'm just floating through each day knowing that I'm free to do what I please. Nowadays, I wake up and smile at myself in the mirror every morning for being true to myself and resisting social pressures to conform to the "norm". :o)
Re: Asexuals dating
I have to disagree, not everyone has the desire to get married, have a family, find that 'special someone'. We're all culturally programmed to think that way. Personally, I have no desire to ever get married and have a family. It may go against millions of years of natural selection, but I think that my genes don't need to be passed on. What good does that do me? And the whole 'special person' thing, why do we need to confide our deepest thoughts, our strongest emotions for one person? Do they even have to be confided in a real person? Maybe I'm just young and naive. Maybe I have a different outlook on life. However, I do see agree with you that asexual dating is a good thing.
Dear abs,
No, I don't think your view is because you are "young and naive"--I think it's very mature and well thought out. I also don't see the necessity of every person marrying, or even having that one "special person" to confide in. I think our love naturally should grow more expansive to include others, but there is nothing wrong with enjoying being alone, either.
X.
Valentine's Day---what's that?