Haven for the Human Amoeba

Jay...not to be ornery here, but I think you're kidding yourself when you say, "If my girlfriend or wife has sex with another person, it is not cheating to me. Indeed I would be happy if it fulfilled a need for her. I don't do intercourse, so I am not jealous of another who has intercourse with my significant other. Since I don't find anything loving with regard to intercourse, I don't feel that a third party indulgence would even begin to betray my love."

The reason I say this is because, for most women, having sex with someone involves much more than just "scracthing an itch," and it is quite likely, as you say afterwards, that she would end up spending a lot of time with her sexual partner--and quite possibly fall in love with him--this is human nature. So indeed she would be cheating on you...cheating you out of companionship, love, and whatever else you thought you had with her.

well, if I'm right, 9pm eastern standard time is 8pm central time, 7pm mountain time and 6pm west coast time. SOmeone correct me quickly if I'm wrong.

Dear lord I need an edit function.

I guess you are right, xzprtlq. I mean I can't speak for women. But you are making a (somewhat) different point than I was making. I said, in essence, that a mate who has sex with another can not be cheating on me, because I don't like intercourse anyway---so what do I care?

You said that most women are doing more than "scratching an itch" in having sex with another person. I will accept that. If most women think that having a relationship---of some kind---

with more than one person at the same time is cheating, then it is cheating for them---if not for me.

But most women think that sex=love=sex=love ad infinitum. Most women want to get laid too. But I don't do intercourse, so most women do not apply in my situation.

Incidentally, I admire your relationship, xzprtlq. Should I correctly assume that if your lover had sex with another person, you would feel betrayed? If you had sex with another person, he would feel betrayed?

jay

xzprtlq said:

>Jay...not to be ornery here, but I think you're >kidding yourself when you say, "If my girlfriend >or wife has sex with another person, it is not >cheating to me."

>"For most women, having sex with someone >involves much more than just "scracthing an >itch," and it is quite likely, as you say >afterwards, that she would end up spending a lot >of time with her sexual partner--and quite >possibly fall in love with him--this is human >nature. So indeed she would be cheating on

you...cheating you out of companionship, love, >and whatever else you thought you had with her.

Platonicpimp is right, the time for the meeting is:

9PM East Coast

8PM Central

7PM Mountain

6PM West Coast

OK Jay, you said, "I said, in essence, that a mate who has sex with another can not be cheating on me, because I don't like intercourse anyway---so what do I care?" I still think it's the same point, because it probably wouldn't be "just sex," so it would affect you and you would care.

As far as my relationship goes, things just happened to work out so that we live in different countries, so I don't know for certain whether he is still having sex or not, but I do know (because we have talked about it at length) that his desire is to stop having it, and I know he's "working" on that. I guess I'd be jealous if we were living close to each other and he started up a relationship with someone and that person became more important to him than I am. I don't know how he would feel if I did the same, but all of this is so hypothetical, since I have zero interest in starting up a "relationship" with someone else, and the same goes for him, because we're happy with each other.

Of course life is unpredictable, and things change, and I don't have a crystal ball, but hey...whatever happens in the future, I'm sure we'll deal with it.

X.

It sounds like your feelings are the same as mine.

xzprtlq said:

>"so I don't know for certain whether he is

> still having sex or not, but I do

> know [SNIP] that his desire is to stop having

> it, and I know he's "working" on that."

So if he is having or has had sex with someone else during your relationship, you still love him, right?

>"I guess I'd be jealous if we were living close

>to each other and he started up a relationship

>with someone AND that person became more

>important to him than I am." (I added the emphatic "AND")

Of course. But if that person were less important to him than you, then you could handle it, right? I mean, would you care if he were just getting laid occasionally, but nothing more? I doubt it. But if you would, explain.

Don't get me wrong. I would never cheat on anyone. One relationship is exactly the right number for me---and I am not going to have intercourse with anybody because I think it is a non-loving act and rather repulsive.

This is strange, arguing with someone, telling her she is right---and why she is right. :^)

jaylan

The mechanics of begetting children for asexual couples, it seems, is the same as for same-sex couples and nonfertile mixed-sex couples, I'm sure we'll deal with it the way that everyone else does.

I think that its difficult to talk about cheating because we're bending the rules for everything. If my partner associates emotional intimacy with sex then how are they in a relationship with me? Will being in a relationship with an asexual cause them to dissociate sex and emotion? IF so then their need to have sex (which is partially need for emotion) will be signifigantly decreased and they won't be as inclined to fall for the people they're sleeping with.

That's right, the diagnostics and statistical manual, ye olde list of psychological disorders (the one that used to include homosexuality) has us, apparently, fingered. Check it out:

<a href=http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sexavdis.htm target=new>http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sexavdis.htm</a>

The goods news is that, like homosexuality, we're "reversible":

<a href=http://www.mastersandjohnson.com/faq.html target=new>http://www.mastersandjohnson.com/faq.html</a>

(Scroll down a bit, its under "What is sexual aversion?")

(For the record this is the one that doesn't include schitzophrenia but states that if you drink coffee you're a few doves short of a John Woo movie.

Ha ha, Jay, I like your answers. And I agree, after having endured four marriages (I'm a slow learner!), that intercourse is a non-loving act and rather repulsive (and kind of silly and ridiculous). And I have to say, that the relationship I have now, unconventional though it may be, is the most loving one I've ever had. You can tell when someone really cares about you.

X.

The mechanics of begetting children for asexual couples, it seems, is the same as for same-sex couples and nonfertile mixed-sex couples, I'm sure we'll deal with it the way that everyone else does.<<

How is that? By having in-vitro fertilization, surrogate parenthood and other such insanity?

--Judy

BRC said:

"I think that its difficult to talk about cheating because we're bending the rules for everything."

I don't feel like I am bending any rules. I feel that I was born "bent", in that I am sexually different.

"If my partner associates emotional intimacy with sex then how are they in a relationship with me?"

Well, if you don't associate sex with love, emotions or intimacy, then I am guessing you probably have a problem with a partner who does make these associations.

"Will being in a relationship with an asexual cause them to dissociate sex and emotion?"

I would hope so !!! "What's love got to do with it?" was a song by Donna Summer. She was of course advocating sexual pleasure with having to be in love with the person. We asexuals are advocating love without having to sex with that person. It is easy for me, since I have never experienced any lovemaking from lovemaking---if you know what I mean. :^)

"IF so then their need to have sex (which is partially need for emotion) will be signifigantly decreased and they won't be as inclined to fall for the people they're sleeping with."

Hmm. Good point. Yes, "What's love got to do with it?"

:^)

jay

That's right, the diagnostics and statistical manual, ye olde list of psychological disorders (the one that used to include homosexuality) has us, apparently, fingered.<<

You're really misunderstanding the nature and purpose of the DSM. The primary criteria for most DSM disorders is that they be ego-dystonic. In other words, the patient has to be upset and in some way impaired by his/her behavior. Since this is not the case for most persons in this club, the definition of sexual aversion disorder could not be applied to us.

--Judy

Ah, hahahaha.

Good point Judy.

The nice thing about in-vitro fertilization or surrogate parenthood is that it does not require an engorged phallus; the nasty thing is that it requires an engorged ego.

>>The mechanics of begetting children for asexual couples, it seems, is the same as for same-sex couples and nonfertile mixed-sex couples, I'm sure we'll deal with it the way that everyone else does.<<

How is that? By having in-vitro fertilization, surrogate parenthood and other such insanity?

--Judy

...And there is absolutely nothing wrong with discovering that "intercourse is a non-loving act and rather repulsive (and kind of silly and ridiculous)."

When does this message ever get sent in the national media?

:^)

jay

So anything other than missionary style parenthood is insanity? A little less convenient, maybe (though alot more convenient, in ways. You get to choose, for certain, when you have children) I'm just saying that we're on pretty well-trodden ground here, I don't see what the big issue is.

Sorry, I don't have your E-mail. Can I quote you in my article as saying "For Valentine's Day, I plan to love myself just as I do every day"?

-BRC

This is the final copy of my asexuality article. Hope it's ok with everyone..

Every species on the planet has members who, for whatever reason, never get it on. Humans are no exception, weve been not having sex for about as long as weve been having it, but it has only recently been acknowledged that some people simply do not experience sexual attraction. How recently? As little as a year ago the local campus militant flaming asexual (yours truly) had, after about 4 years of looking, failed to find so much as one other asexual out there. Over the past year the number has jumped to around 100. This may not be impressive to those of you accustomed to running into droves of your sexual brethren on a daily basis, but take into account the difficulty of building a community around something that has been considered nonexistant. Only those asexual people who have been together enough to recognize their sexual identity, creative enough to derive an understanding of it completely from scratch, economically capable enough to access the internet and lucky enough to happen upon one of the few asexuality sites out there and outgoing enough to make contact can be counted. Despite these obstacles the rate at which asexual people are appearing is increasing rapidly, with 5 new people in this past week. Due to some odd combination of social factors it seems that a new sexual orientation is emerging not from the closet but from the woodwork.

The emerging group of asexual people is extremely diverse, coming from a wide variety of backgrounds with an even wider set of opinions on what exactly asexuality is. In the Haven for the Human Amoeba, the Internets largest asexual discussion group, the members range in location from Arizona to Australia, and range in age from 16 to 60. Everyone seems to agree that asexual people do not experience sexual attraction and dont feel compelled to form sexual relationships, but outside of that its open territory. Some asexual people experience sex drive, some dont, some date, some dont. Some identify with queer communities, some say they are oriented to like a specific gender, some kiss, some have sexual experience (which they havent enjoyed), some want to have children. Some dont. Most asexual people agree that asexuality is a matter of degree. That is to say that there is a full spectrum of sexual intensity, of how sexual people are, and asexual people just happen to be towards the bottom of it.

So what will asexual people be up to this Valentines day? Probably the same things as most of the single people here at Wes, in fact in micro chasms around the world asexual people may be starting to change what Valentines day means. As one asexual from Atlanta puts it for Valentine's Day, I plan to love myself just as I do every day. For asexual people the barriers between sexual romantic love and nonsexual platonic love are almost nonexistent, and those who celebrate Valentines day seem to do so by celebrating love in a much broader sense than simple romance. Romantic love, which is generally associated with sexual monogamy and sexual affection, is being freshly examined and redefined from an asexual perspective. Asexuality implies that sex is not necessary, a simple idea which could radically alter the way that we think about love.

BRC said:

"So anything other than missionary style parenthood is insanity? [SNIP] I don't see what the big issue is."

Well, a few options were left out in this discourse. For example, adoption. Also, artificial insemination is probably not that difficult (I don't know much about it; can you try it at home?).

Surrogate motherhood and fertilization in a petrie (sp?) dish/test tube is extreme to me. But yes, IMO a couple who wants a child should probably consider intercourse as the cheapest and easiest manner of conception.

jay

Jay wrote: "...And there is absolutely nothing wrong with discovering that 'intercourse is a non-loving act and rather repulsive (and kind of silly and ridiculous).'

When does this message ever get sent in the national media?"

Maybe we should just march around the public plaza with signs that say "SEX SUCKS"!! :o)

X.

p.s. Unfortunately some folks might take that the wrong way!

Adoption. Adoption. Adoption. Read my lips. I live in Brazil, and there are thousands of adorable babies and kids here waiting for mom and pop.

X.

I said:

>When does this message ever get

>sent in the national media?

>"intercourse is a non-loving act

>and rather repulsive

>(and kind of silly and ridiculous)."

You said:

> Maybe we should just march

> around the public plaza

> with signs that say "SEX SUCKS"!!

But this point of view does not even get expressed in a list such as this. Virtually everyone cites a "low sex drive", "never did much for me", or "gay" or such. I think that there are at least a few people who either hate sex, find it repulsive, scary or such. People who do not like sex should be able to say so.

jay

Hi Jay....I said this in a playful way, but you're right. People who think sex is ridiculous, demeaning, or nasty, should say so!!

X.

Yay for the DSM-IV! Select: Lifelong type.

Yes, Judy is right. If you take the DSM as an all inclusive non-destructive descriptor, most people could apply for vast sections of psychological disorders. I would presume that the Sexual Aversion Disorder referred to here would be a wild repulsion, on par with other mentally crippling handicaps and phobias. Not really just indifference on the matter of sexual relations, or even a distaste.

But, whether or not a psychologist would consider asexual behavior to be a *mild* form of Sexual Aversion Disorder is another question.

I don't know, can anyone here imagine the Asexual version of Will and Grace? I'd rather not see it happen.