Haven for the Human Amoeba

X,

ok, here you go

from my preious message, if hetero can make out publicly, why cant homo do so.

and only OUT-ed homo can do so in public

if you can bring someone you love dearly out for a nice dinner or a nice moon-bath; how happy can one possibly be

here it comes the difference, asexuals, doesnt matter they are closeted or not, they are still not going to do anything different in "public eyes" so. dont compare homo with asex

and X, the time had changed

many many many of my friends are out, and they live happily. i am half-out, i live on constant fear.

my friends can hold hands, kiss, and go out for dates, but i wouldnt even touch a girl because i am fear. if you have no knowledge about homosexuals, please dont make any examples of them

"but i wouldnt even touch a girl because i am fear"

Why are you scared?

The fear of something becoming of my actions make me live in fear around friends, ack, if i came out i guess it would change things, but some people just dont understand. Although it would be nice to stop living persona's and just be me

nova,

"I would prefer not to make the mistakes that make the homosexual movement so offensive and ridiculous"

what do you mean by that, do you know anything about the homosexual movement, AT ALL???

do you know how many homosexuals are discriminated at work? all we want is equality!!

try this, if you get fired at work because you dont practice sex, what would you think? get it? i guess you dont

how about firing someone just because of their skin color, get that?

dont be prejudice becaue of your ignorance... if you dont know it, dont even make example of it before you study it

Well, truth be told, when I see men and women making out in public, my gut reaction has always been "get a room, guys." That's the whole point I was making by puting the "private" back in private life.

Homosexual activists take rejecting the difference between private and public one step further- they seem to be particularly committed to making their business everyone else's. Far from wanting to be "left alone" as they claim, they want everybody to know about what they do. Just witness "gay pride" rallies, with their outlandish drag get up and scantily clad men parading around shouting obscenities. If I were a homosexual, I wouldn't go near one of those rallies, in fact I would be ashamed to be associated with any such thing.

That's why the last thing I want to see is an "asexual pride" rally. I don't see why being of any particular sexual orientation is something to be "proud" of. Being asexual has its benefits and its burdens, I imagine the same is true for anything else. Why make it the business of your next door neighbor or the guy walking down the street?

EXACTLY

note: i am a homo-asexual

if my friends see my going around with a girls, they think i am a lesbian, they critism comes. some may choose to stay away from me (just like you friends). i dont want to lose my jobs, etc etc.

nova,

the reason for pride is knowing we are not "alone", there are people that are our "family"

and "pride" is for someone that is dare enough to admit their sexuality, and publicly admit their sexuality, its bravery, get it?

i know, i hate people that make out in public, anyone.

but people (maybe you do) feel that same sex couple make out in public is more disgust than hetero couple

about business; if a hetero business can open a store about S.M. or hetero porn; why cant gay people open the same kind of store and sell homo porn?

Well, the whole point of these rallies is to stand up for themselves, to make themselves be treated equally, the same could be said about asexuals, we are sometimes judged because of our orientation, is that right? Would you make sure you were treated as an equal? Those rallies are a step in the direction of an asexual accepting society, and you say that you would not join in? The whole point of pride is to show self respect, to express that we are proud of our group. If you are not proud of your group, does not that make you dislike the fact that you are asexual? or that you are different?

Our sexuality, our individuality, is what makes us human, and to want to be the same as the crowd, the 'norm', is to almost deny what it is to be human. Think over why you dont support gay pride nova, i would be interested to see your point of view in the matter,

"judge not lest ye be judged."

Well, I knew that once the closeted or not issue came up that there would be controversy. In this day and age of "political correctness" if one even dares to voice an opinion about the public behavior of some homosexuals, or whatever, he/she is immediately branded as "homophobic."

OK, to set the record straight: I am not homophobic. My dearest, closest friend and soulmate is gay, and I have known many gays and have had close friendships with them. I have spent time in the gay bar scene. I am not ignorant about gays and I am not against them in any way.

But I agree with nova that discretion and privacy is best FOR ANY DEEPLY PERSONAL OR INTIMATE PARTS OF OUR LIVES. I find in general that Americans and Europeans (I hate to generalize, but this is a broad, cultural thing) have little or no understanding of the power of human thought. This is the "Jerry Springer" age, and people feel it's their obligation to hang all their laundry out in public for everyone to see. Here in Brazil, where I live, people are aware that human thought directed against you in a negative way can actually hurt you unless you are wise enough to be aware of it and know how to defend yourself. Thus I maintain that in blabbing about your sexual or non-sexual preferences or in any way making a big deal out of something that shouldn't be a big deal and being public about it, you are unwittingly hurting yourself.

I also agree with nova that the sex act or sexuality does not define a homosexual. It is the spirit that defines the person.

X.

in the same response i gave to nova; and also according to you in previously

THIS IS NOT AN IDEAL WORLD. people can do wahtever they like, whenever, wherever. if you dont like to see it, why dont you stay at home? instead of telling peopel to practice what they do in private instead?

i personally think jerry springer is the stupidest show, why are they allow to boardcast? why does my cable channel bill include such trash?

if you dont want to see it, do home and hide. dont ask the minority to hide, dont ask anyone to hide.

and its good to be out (its good to have right to do whatever we want at whenever we want and wherever we want)

this is NOT the IDEAL WORLD, people live in constant bad influences. homosexual is more a bad influence that alcohol and prostitutes? i dont think so.

YES, homosexual is a personal, soul thing, but be able to be a person, be able to be yoruself in public is what all the gay issues came from.

in this stupid country (USA), you can get fired EASILY just because one is gay. in this stupid country, hate crime is not a rare issue. in this stupid country, people literally get killed because they are openly gay.

all the inequality is what we all are fighting for. if we just practice "minority things" at home, and noone knows about it, we will never be recognised, and we will never reach the "IDEAL WORLD"

the ideal world doesnt come by itself, it comes with a long term struggle and bravery

Openchan, I understand and sympathize with your arguments...but it's not me you're arguing against, because I don't have an argumnent for your arguments. You said, "If you dont want to see it, go home and hide. dont ask the minority to hide, dont ask anyone to hide."

No one is ASKING anyone to hide. This is where you have misunderstood my posts. All I said is that there are some homosexuals who prefer to keep their personal business and lives to themselves. If other homosexuals want to have parades, change laws, stand up and be counted, or whatever, I personally have no problem with that. To each his own. Now will you settle down, please? :o)

X.

Sorry for the typo...I meant to write "Opelchan".

i didnt not point at your, maybe you feel that i did

qouting nova: Far from wanting to be "left alone" as they claim, they want everybody to know about what they do. Just witness "gay pride" rallies, with their outlandish drag get up and scantily clad men parading around shouting obscenities

and your comments was making me sick, i cannot just settle with your ignorance going all around the room (and nova's)

get your dear soulmate to straight your ideas up about homosexual up before you make your comments. just dont compare, they are completely inrelivant.

SOME want to keep their business with themselves, most dont, cause most want equality, and it doesnt come by itself.

and the SOME want to keep it to themselves because they accept this stupid world sucks, they cant be themselves in public. most of us want to chance the world in someway

its not a "problem" why should we keep it to itself to start with.

why doesnt the hetero people keep their "problems" to themselves

anyway, just dont compare

Well, I have nothing more to say...you don't get what I'm saying, you can't see beyond your own tunnel vision, and you accuse me of saying things I didn't say and misinterpret everything I did say...sigh.

". . .I agree with nova that discretion and privacy is best FOR ANY DEEPLY PERSONAL OR INTIMATE PARTS OF OUR LIVES."

I would have to agree as well. Sex (or lack thereof) is one of the most, if not THE most, personal aspects of one's life. If one chooses to tell the world about their sexual preference, they should be allowed to do so, but those who do not want to should not be persecuted for their choice. Some of us want to live perfectly normal, anonymous lives. I don't see how telling all my friends, family and acquaintances about my asexuality would help anything. People may playfully tease me about not dating in over two years, but declaring asexuality would most certainly bring more pain than liberation. Most heterosexual people have enough trouble trying to conceive homosexuality let alone all the infinite shades of grey that bisexuality and asexuality bring about.

I also agree with X and nova that one's 'self' is not defined by their sexuality. Sexuality is just part of the physical body, a container that the spirit discards with death.

And furthermore, I attended one of the "pride" parades when I was identifying as a bisexual and I felt that a great deal of the celebration was excessive. The costumes, floats, Mardi Gras paraphernalia, and whistles and bells do not suit all homo/bisexuals. A good friend of mine, in fact, was on a float clad only in a Speedo, which he felt the need to take off in front of thousands of people. It certainly drew attention, but does that behavior bring about equality or does it simply piss off conservative people and make things worse for the gay community? I know many members of the straight community who respect gays who do not go to such lengths to prove a point and feel that those who participate in the outrageous forms of expression give all the other homosexuals a bad reputation.

All that just to let everyone know who you sleep with! It's beyond me. . .

I tried to stay out of this one, but I guess I just can't keep my "Gabby" self quiet, now can I?

Clearly, this is a touchy issue, but it's still very important and worth discussing. To me, silence equals death. (It's very quiet in the graveyard.) I understand the comments about some public displays which appear to be distasteful to some people. I wonder, though, maybe that's what it took for a community to be seen and heard. If nobody talked about their same-sex partners, then our lawmakers would not know that they need to consider laws about domestic partnerships. They need insurance coverage and other benefits that are easily bestowed upon hetero couples. I, personally, would not stand on top of a float butt-naked, but if that's what it took to bring the camera crews over to their demonstration, then I can't criticize the person who did it. Anytime somebody stands up for a cause, they take a risk. They risk the possibility of personal scrutiny by the public. I think that most people who choose to do this know that they might suffer at the hands of someone who doesn't agree with them. The fact that they choose to step forward anyway tells me that they are very brave. Apparently, they feel their cause is worth the personal sacrifice. As long as people remain silent, rampant atrocities continue to be committed against innocent people. Look at any "whistleblower" report on the news. The people who blew the whistle knew that they were taking a risk, but they felt the cause was worth the personal sacrifice. I'm in favor of speaking up about being asexual. Maybe eventually, we won't be classified as having a sexual dysfunction or mental disorder. We're as normal as sexual people and the world needs to know that. I agree that there is too much sex in the media, but it's all the more reason for us to speak up. People need to know that it's okay to not want sex. I realize that everyone doesn't want to speak up and I agree with X on that...to each his/her own. We still need to encourage those of us who are not afraid to speak up for the group. I still want our voices to be heard so that we are taken seriously. I want more people to accept the fact that some people are asexual so it's pointless to say that they will "grow out of it" or that they "just haven't met the right one yet". I want psychologists to stop classifying us as crazy! The only way that this is going to happen is if a number of us speak up and help to shed light on the subject. Yes, that means that we may have to expose ourselves to public scrutiny of our private lives, but some of us feel that the cause is worth it. I'm not saying that everyone has to, but I do want to encourage those of us who are willing to step up to that challenge which will benefit all of us.

One good way to get the word out is on the internet, especially with more informative, attractive websites.

X.

I realize that this sounds like I'm contradicting what I said before, but it actually isn't, because I believe people should do what they're led to do, and do it wisely.

X.

X: "There are homosexuals today who are still in the closet and like it that way."

if you are not a homosexual, you will not know how much fear the closeted homosexual experience. they/we have to live a different life in front of and behind people, that can drive soemone insane and most of us dont like to be in the closet (if at all possible). so DONT"S SPEAK OF SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF.

dont' make it sound like most of us do, you are aged, doesnt mean every word from your mouth become truth

the last point i was saying, dont compare because its irrelvant. you just cannot compare a pineapple with a watermelon, can you

Opelchan, you are a rude boy and don't know what you're talking about. I do have intimate experience with one who is in the closet, so don't tell me what I know and don't know.

X.

i am wrestling with the possibility of being asexual. Are there those that do have some sexual desire and attraction?

Welcome to the club, Shynature! Usually people reply so quickly to the posts here, but it's been almost a day and no one has said anything yet. Here goes. . . I am certainly not an expert on the subject because I just came to terms with this recently, myself. One of the other members here described sexuality like the volume knob on a stereo. I feel this is an accurate analogy. People vary in their placement on the spectrum of heterosexuality and homosexuality, why wouldn't they vary in their degree of sexual desire? It only makes sense. I think it is possible for one's degree of desire and whom one desires to change over the course of a lifetime, as well. I hope that helps answer your question.

I'm going to chime in agree that sexual intesity (like about everything) is a spectrum, definitely. You don't need to worry about some line that defines you as "asexual" or "not", you can just acquire enough of the identity to say that sex isn't necessary if you don't feel like engaging in it.

On the (seemingly hot) topic of coming out..

I agree with what it seems most people are saying, that there are definite advantages to coming out but that it's not always the best (or a necessary) course of action. Coming out means stretching the bounds of your environment so that it's inclusive of you. This is, by definition, what these pride parades are, and why the piss peopel off so much. They're stretching the definition of what's sexually acceptable to be more inclusive of queer existance. Coming out is great in this sense, because it gives you the freedom to mold your environment to suit your needs (and the needs of those like you.) It can also be risky, stretching the bounds of one's environment is never easy or safe, and not everyone may be up for the risk. The difficulty is that in a push for visibility/making the world asexual-freindly "out" asexuals are the effective ground troops. Lots of out people redefining their immediate environments redefines the greater environment, because of this there can be some pressure in groups like this to come out. I don't think that that pressure is good or valid, so please let me know if I exert it on any one. Coming out is a really personal thing, a decision everyone should be able to make free of outside pressure.

Ok, so here's a theory equating sexuality and gender that I just came up with that I find extremely exciting. It builds on some aspects of femenist and queer theory that not everyone will be familiar with, but I don't have time to rewrite it from this E-mail to my friend. Sorry!!

Ok, we're going to start with the age-old question:How can you be an interesting, fun-to-know person without being sexually attractive?

And, because it will give us some equations we need, we'll throw in a new question. One that has only become pertinant since I've tried to ingratiate myself with local queer politics: What is the link between sexuality and gender performance?

So what do we know so far? We know that gender isn't a set thing, its just a set of performed bahaviors. We know that sexuality and gender are (somehow) deeply intermingled, heterosexism isn't about breaking sexaul codes, really, it's about breaking gender codes. And conversly people who break gender codes are labeled as "sexually deviant" in one way or another.

So can I solve the attraction paradox and get the trannies on my side in one fell swoop? And most importantly will I stop to consider the moral implications before scientifically sweeping forward?(I won't.)

So what the hell IS gender performance anyway? What distinguishes "gender behavior" from other types of behavior? What if, for our own dark and devious purposes, define gender as that which is sexually attractive. So when someone finds something about you sexually attractive (that is to say it's not a factor of you that would necessarily factor into a nonsexual relationship) then that thing is gender performance. It's kind of twisted but it works. Anything we do to try and be sexually attractive is a performance of gender. So when we want to be attractive for someone we "turn up" our gender performance in some way. We also, of course, turn up our general-interesting-person-ness, because that's also a part of the relationship that we're trying to build. SO....

1)Conversly, if you want to be interesting to people without being sexually attractive, you just "turn down" your gender and keep the rest of the interesting stuff. If people notice the interesting stuff but not your gender then they'll like you but not consider you sexually attractive.

2)People control their sexual life by defining their gender performance. This fits extremely well, because people who want different types of sexual lifestyles tend to put on different types of gender performance. People who are "sexually succesful" are praised ALONG LINES OF GENDER.

3)There's now a simple way to translate talking about sex to talking about gender and vice versa. This is HUGE (for me anyway) because all to often discussions will get stuck on one and not be able to bring in the other.

4)It shows why messing with gender performance pisses people off so much, messing with gender performance means messing with OTHER PEOPLE'S sexuality (what they're attracted to.) So it is an extremely personal way to fuck with someone.

I found this piece very interesting and agreed with most of it but one thing I cannot agree with is No.1. I do not want to be sexually attracitve to anyone male or female. I never flirt but am a very outgoing free spirited person who cannot make male friends without them "coming on" to me. I find this very disconcerting and the more I make it clear that I do not wish a sexual relationship, the more they try to change my mind which ends the friendship. I have had 3 marriage proposals in the last year, all parties saying they would adhere to my wishes of a "friendship" marriage if only I will say yes. Of course, I said no because they are sexual beings and will eventually become stressed with the situation. I find this most frustrating as I like male company. I have 3 very close female friends in whom I confide everything and about 20 other female friends that are as close as most folk's best friends.

I am not a leggy young blonde, I am 50 this year, and on a good day I look no younger than 45 and am rather thin. So what's my secret - my female sexually active friends plead - I don't know because if I did I'd cut it out.

Having reread this it sounds as if I'm bragging, but believe me this is a cry for help. Am I to go through the rest of my life with no male friends?