Haven for the Human Amoeba

Hi, b-r-c....you said, "What is it about women that excludes you from having "butterflies" about them?" Not sure if you were addressing me, but I'd just like to say that I HAVE had "butterflies" about women, although not with a desire to have sex with them.

Back to good old masturbation. I think, at least for me, that it's an important issue. As I said, I believe it is sex, and there is "stuff"--perhaps pesonal and private, rather than social--that goes along with it. I, for one, never felt particularly good about myself after a jerk-off session, and found that when I stopped doing it my self-esteem rose considerably. I'm sure not everyone feels that way, but that's how I feel.

X.

X- The question was addressed toward celbrat, but its equivalent could be posed to anyone who identifies as hereta or homasexual. I can understand being really close emotionally with someone, I can understand that emotion taking a romantic form, but why limit yourself to one gender? Sexual people do it because they are limited by who they're sexually attracted to, but we don't have that problem.

Other discussion- I want to challenge the notion that sex is demeaning. I think for sexual people sex can be great, and I'm generally happy for them when they come across it. For me personally the act of sex itself isn't particularely anything. It seems like a pretty abstract and awkward thing to do with another person, and I'll admit that it seems a bit sticky and distasteful, but there's nothing inherintly special about it that makes it stand apart from other things of that general description (Like eating a cockroach with a friend. Kind of random, sticky, seems distasteful, but on principle I suppose I'd try it, what the hell.) If there weren't a gargantuan mass of social implications built up around sex I wouldn't even be averse to trying it. I don't think that asexuality is necessarily about being against sex (antisexual?), just not being for it.

You mean you don't think eating a cockroach with a friend would be demeaning? :o)

Not necessarily. There are some cultures where eating bugs (if not cockroaches) is commonplace. As long as its gone about safely (cockroaches can be dirty) it's not wrong, just a tad bizzar. Certainly not demeaning.

Not necessarily. There are some cultures where eating bugs (if not cockroaches) is commonplace. As long as its gone about safely (cockroaches can be dirty) it's not wrong, just a tad bizzar. Certainly not demeaning.

X- The question was addressed toward celbrat, but its equivalent could be posed to anyone who identifies as hereta or homasexual. I can understand being really close emotionally with someone, I can understand that emotion taking a romantic form, but why limit yourself to one gender? Sexual people do it because they are limited by who they're sexually attracted to, but we don't have that problem.

Other discussion- I want to challenge the notion that sex is demeaning. I think for sexual people sex can be great, and I'm generally happy for them when they come across it. For me personally the act of sex itself isn't particularely anything. It seems like a pretty abstract and awkward thing to do with another person, and I'll admit that it seems a bit sticky and distasteful, but there's nothing inherintly special about it that makes it stand apart from other things of that general description (Like eating a cockroach with a friend. Kind of random, sticky, seems distasteful, but on principle I suppose I'd try it, what the hell.) If there weren't a gargantuan mass of social implications built up around sex I wouldn't even be averse to trying it. I don't think that asexuality is necessarily about being against sex (antisexual?), just not being for it.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that there was a question posed towards me. I had to scroll back to re-read it.

Why don't I get "butterflies" around women? Well, I guess I don't because women are strange creatures. (Men are strange too, but at least you all are predictable most of the time.) I'm not particularly fascinated with other women physically because I'm equally equipped. Some women are "catty" and pretend to be my friend until they feel threatened by me. Then they stab me in the back with their cat claws. Those women are comfortable being around me and chatting with me as long as they feel that they are superior to me in some way (prettier, smarter, disciplined about her current diet/exercise program, well versed in the bible, better in the kitchen, etc.). Sometimes I feel like I have to play down my attributes just to keep some female friends. Other women are cool to chat with as long as I let them feel like they are telling me what I "should do". (Surrogate mother, I guess.) Other women are way too materialistic for me. I can't relate to a damn thing they have to say! (Who cares what so-and-so had on? No, I didn't notice her shoes or her new diamond ring? Yeah, he drove off in a blue car...sorry, I didn't notice whether it was a Benz or a Lexus. WHO CARES???!!) Still other women are really sweet, genuine, and they don't fit into any of my above CATegories. These women are cool, but I don't feel butterflies for any of them. I can relate to them. Really, we can just exchange a glance after observing the behaviors of some other folks and shake our heads. It's rare to find still waters like that. I'd rather not trouble them. *:o)

When I pass by female strangers, I can't imagine what kind of beings lurk beneath their public faces and I usually don't want to know. So what do I do? I flash my own public smile and keep movin'! - LOL!!

Just had the realization today that spring is coming, which means as someone on my hall says "the thoughts of the young turn to love." This is somewhat depressing, and means that I'm going to have to shell out more than my share of asskickitude. Anyone else at all troubled with this phenominon?

Celibrat- This question isn't one that sexual people can answer, so I don't expect you to, I just think it's interesting to explore. Certainly some women can be catty, or maternalistic, some men can be needy or total assholes. Since there are people out there who legitimately fall in love with women there must be women worth falling in love with out there SOMEWHERE.

One aspect of this, which is different from an orientation to a particular gender, is the idea that its easier within social constructs of gender for men and women to be romantically involved than for men and men or women and women. Genders are constructed to be incomplete and complimentary, it's hard to have a relationship between two women or two men who fit all of the social norms of their gender.

I beg your pardon?

"Celibrat- This question isn't one that sexual people can answer, so I don't expect you to"

WHAT do you mean by this statement??

I'm just saying that sexual people can't put their finger on what it is that makes one gender attractive and one not in the context of sexual attraction, and there's alot more of them who have been trying for longer. So when I ask you what seems to be a paralell question (only now in an asexual context) I acknowledge that's a tricky thing to pinpoint.

Oh! 'Just checkin'... I thought you were implying that I was sexual and not asexual.

I realize that we differ in the way we compartmentalize the concepts of "sex", "sexuality" and "romance". You seem to put them together, but I separate them. Even though we have this difference, please know that I do NOT consider myself to be sexual.

During recent months, I've really just begun to focus on what makes me happy instead of unhappily pleasing others. When I was sexually active, it was purely just to hold on to the relationship. Sex to me was like onions. I've had both, but I didn't like either one!

I'm just saying that sexual people can't put their finger on what it is that makes one gender attractive and one not in the context of sexual attraction, and there's alot more of them who have been trying for longer. So when I ask you what seems to be a paralell question (only now in an asexual context) I acknowledge that's a tricky thing to pinpoint.

Oops, sorry, looking back at my statement I see how I could come across that way. That's not what I meant at all.

I'm definitely for the go with what makes you happy aproach. More power to that.

And I don't think that our concepts of sex and romance are that different. I don't think that they are intrinsically linked. I think that sexual attraction is one easy way to build a romantic relationship, but not THE way (there's nothing inherintly sexual about a romantic relationship.) I just don't like that model of relationship as compared to more down-to-earth friendships. Romantic relationships can be emotional in a great way, but they tend to breed alot of expecations and emotional weirdness that I personally don't like. So, for now anyway, I'd rather have my close relationships look more like close friendships, reasonably "butterfly-less." This is just my personal opinion, I'm not saying that it needs to apply to all asexuals.

So, does anybody think Declan Dunn (Mysterious Ways) is asexual, or what?

X.

I've never seen that show. Is it on cable or what?

I must agree that there is a deficiency of asexual characters on television and in movies. If a character seems that way, they almost always end up being gay or getting 'cured,' like you said.

Oops, I spoke too soon. I just checked out the NBC website and read the description of the show. It sounds interesting. I'll have to watch it sometime so I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, this character Declan Dunn, in all the episodes I've seen, has never shown the slightest interest in either the same or opposite sex in a sexual way...only in a brotherly, friendly, or protective way. He is way too busy chasing after unexplained phenomena. I've been watching the show for quite a while, but it just dawned on me why I like his character so much (aside from the fact that he's kind of bumbling, goofy, and awkward!) :o)

X.

I bet they give him a love interest soon. That's how things go with TV shows, you see something that might be promising and the moment you get suckered in it goes straight to hell.

I didn't know that I'm nonsexual until a few days ago. I've been married for almost 4 years, and she is straight. Why could I or did I marry a straight woman? Well, I believed the sex must come after marriage (and even after marriage, I still did not have sex yet). Anyway, because of this christian thing (sex must come after marriage), I married when I was still confused. And I have a lot of problems. She does not believe in nonsexual thing. She thinks she has to call anbulance or something. She thinks I am seriously deranged or something. Is there anyone who is in a similar situation (e.g. wife/husband is straight and really mad at your sexual orientation)?

I didn't know that I'm nonsexual until a few days ago. I've been married for almost 4 years, and she is straight. Why could I or did I marry a straight woman? Well, I believed the sex must come after marriage (and even after marriage, I still did not have sex yet). Anyway, because of this christian thing (sex must come after marriage), I married when I was still confused. And I have a lot of problems. She does not believe in nonsexual thing. She thinks she has to call anbulance or something. She thinks I am seriously deranged or something. Is there anyone who is in a similar situation (e.g. wife/husband is straight and really mad at your sexual orientation)?

"I'm just saying that sexual people can't put their finger on what it is that makes one gender attractive and one not in the context of sexual attraction, and there's alot more of them who have been trying for longer. So when I ask you what seems to be a paralell question (only now in an asexual context) I acknowledge that's a tricky thing to pinpoint."

You're right. It is difficult to pinpoint the source of the butterflies. I know this woman who REALLY acts like a "manly man". She makes Fred Flinstone seem like a wimp when she gets started about sports, etc. So here is a genetic woman who acts out the male gender role, yet I still find her totally unattractive. I tune out whiny guys just as much as I tune out the super-macho ones. Whiny women annoy me, too. There's a person in between the two extremes that could give me butterflies. For each person, the specific cause can differ widely, but butterflies do exist for some. I guess, expectations can have a lot to do with it. If I usually have a mentally stimulating conversation with someone, then I'll pick up the phone "expecting" to have another interesting conversation with that person. I think expectations are part of our every day existence, though. We go to work/class expecting to arrive there safely and arrive home safely afterwards. Sometimes people are drawn to people who remind them of home (familiar interpersonal relationship experiences from their childhood). I can't remember which theorist first came up with this concept (Jung maybe?), but it's been restated a lot in recent years. That's where we get the terms "Momma's Boy" or "Daddy's Little Girl". Some people unconsciously recreate those experiences over and over in their adult lives to resolve some issue that they couldn't let go of from their past. Anyway, whoever brings back those familiar feelings for them, often is the person that gives him/her butterflies. Does this make any sense? Who was that theorist?

I find nothing demeaning at all about masterbating. Its a bodily function much like pooping. I guess its just more common for guys to masterbate. In fact the only reasons I masterbate is to fall asleep or relax a bit. If anyone has seen There's Something About Mary, you know what I'm talking about. Maybe its because the male orgasm is so much more common and not as powerful that masterbating for men is not a problem. Maybe its just the way men think.

I thing I noticed in the last past posts is that men favor the ends, while women favor the means. Men are more comfortable with masterbating while women are more comfortable with 'butterflies in the stomach' and romance and stuff. Of course I am generalizing.

What BRC brought up was an excellent point. Masterbating is just a bodily function like sneezing until you bring another person in. Then it becomes sex and everything gets all complicated. Which is why I'm a masterbating Asexual and I'm proud of it.

to my knowledge no one here is in a similar situation, though many have reported Close friendships that went sour after the other party desired sex.

Befoer you can clear up anything with your wife, you will have to become unmuddied yourself. Take some time to figure what sort of relationship you want and how to go about that. then you can work things out with your wife from more stable ground.