Haven for the Human Amoeba

BRC, You need your own column in the scholl newspaper. Overall a good article. I hadn't heard of that bill, though, I guess that's one of the side effects of living in Kansas. (the others being Drunk people and intolerance.) Could comeone give a gist of what has been proposed by Our Country's All Wise, Unfailing Leader(TM)?

Ok, so this weeks round of google searches turned up some new asexuality related hits. Thought I'd make them available to everyone and ask if the origionators were on the forum yet. (P.S., what do you think of making serious use of the bookmarks section, now that we have one?)

http://www.bent-voices.org/asexual.htm

Also, some interesting quotes. 1) An article about asexuals from '99. Where are they now?

The New Minority - The Asexuals? I suppose it had to happen. It seems that there just weren't enough sexual preference groups around. It may only be in it's infancy but watch out for the newly vocal group of people whose sexual preference is that of asexuality. James Buffalino, Time Out New York's "sexpert", has had people writing in proclaiming their asexuality as meriting serious and positive attention. They are proud of their status and want it to be taken seriously - to be legitimized. Granted a lot of people with seemingly unusual sexual preferences write into Buffalino's column for advice and to express their ideas. Why should I take the asexuals more seriously than the the amputee fetishists? Well, there's something tells me that the self-proclaimed asexuals writers to the column, "Get Naked" are just the tip of the iceberg. America is very big on puritanism, and New Yorkers seem to busy for anything but work. They can't seem to get invited out on a second date. There's even a dating agency whose proudly proclaims "We Make Dating Fun". What is it meant to be? Miserable? So it would seem that if New Yorkers are going to be mateless and isolated, they might just as well make a movement of it.

2) Apparently the folks who think of sexual spectri have been worrying about asexuality for at least a little while..

Michael Storms proposed a new sexuality scale in 1980, that used an x-y axis rather than a line between extremes, to include asexuality as well as bisexuality. The third scale was developed by Fritz Klein. He used several indicators to define sexual orientation, such as sexual attraction, sexual behavior, sexual fantasies, emotional preference, social preference, self-identification and lifestyle, and he asked the subject to use the Kinsey scale to rank each indicator for the past, the present (in the past year) and their ideal future goal. The fourth scale, the Multidimensional Scale of Sexuality was published in 1990 and contrasts categories of bisexuality, homosexuality, heterosexuality and asexuality, using some concepts from both Klein and Storms. These scales do not show the whole picture of someone's identity, and there has been some feminist critique of their methodology and of attaching numbers to sexuality, but I think they are a useful tool for getting a picture of the continuum of people's sexuality beyond just either heterosexual

2) The Australian parlaiment added asexuality to thier nondescrimination clause:

Senate Legal and Constitutional Committee

Inquiry into Sexuality Discrimination

CHAPTER ONE

INTRODUCTION

History of the Reference

1.1 The Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 was developed by the Australian Democrats Party, particularly the then Senator Sid Spindler (Victoria). At the introduction of the bill into the Senate on 29 November 1995 Senator Spindler's second reading speech outlined the major reasons for the development of the bill. These included:

* that people receive equal treatment in areas governed by Commonwealth law and are protected against discrimination on the grounds of their sexuality or their transgender identity; * that no special rights are developed for people of transgender status or non-heterosexuals but that they have rights equal to those available to others; * that there be protection for people who are going through a gender re-assignment process 'or identifying as transsexuals'. [1]

1.2 Senator Spindler acknowledged the concerns of some members of the community by stating that the bill did not represent an attack on marriage; did not encourage paedophilia; and did not seek to give to the non-heterosexual community rights more extensive than those available to others. It sought only to ensure that people had equal access to rights, and that they were not discriminated against in a number of areas, primarily those under Commonwealth control. [2] Areas of discrimination included superannuation and insurance, employment, education, industrial relations, the provisions of goods and services; protection against vilification was also seen as essential.

1.3 The development of the bill was based on the premise that the Commonwealth had power under the external affairs power of the Constitution to develop legislation which would implement the provisions of international treaties or conventions. A further premise was that the major international covenant - the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) - was concerned with the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexuality and transgender status. [3]

1.4 The Bill was referred to the Senate Legal and Constitutional References Committee on 30 May 1996. [4] It was originally to report by the first sitting day in March 1997. Given a substantial increase in the workload of the Committee during early 1997, further extensions were granted to 2 June 1997, [5] to 30 October 1997, [6] and to the last sitting day of 1997. [7]

1.5 The Committee received 436 submissions, and these are listed at Appendix 1. It held nine public hearings, in all States and Territories except the Northern Territory, in the period 6 August to 22 October 1996. Persons giving evidence at these hearings are listed at Appendix 2.

Terms of Reference

1.6 The following report deals with each of the terms of reference by considering them in a specific chapter or section of a chapter or over several chapters, as the case may be. The first part of the first term of reference is 'the need to protect Australian citizens against discrimination and vilification on the grounds of their sexuality or transgender identity'. This is a complex issue dealing with the identification of discrimination and vilification expressed against two distinct groups of people in a wide range of areas. It is considered especially in Chapters Two, Five and Six.

1.7 The second part of the first term of reference is to consider the need for protection against discrimination and vilification ' with particular reference to Australia's international obligations in relation to sexuality discrimination and transgender identity and the action required to meet those obligations.' The international context of the debate is discussed in Chapter Three, which also examines the basis of power for the Commonwealth to develop anti-discrimination legislation. The issue of the action required to meet those obligations is also discussed, in Chapter Two. Chapters Five and Six outline some of the issues that arise in respect of anti-discrimination legislation and identify some areas where change may be needed in order to meet stated objectives of the legislation. Reference is made especially to issues which are not covered by the legislation and the concerns expressed by some groups that the legislation would not address matters of most concern to them.

1.8 The second term of reference is 'Measures which need to be taken to remove any legislative and administrative provisions which are currently discriminatory on the grounds of a person's sexuality or transgender identity'. It has been argued by some witnesses that the limitation of the legislation to Commonwealth legislation means that some important issues will not be addressed, and these concerns are referred to as they occur in Chapters Three to Six. The specific problems with existing legislation within scope are especially considered in Chapters Five and Six.

1.9 The third term of reference is 'The extent to which current legislation at a State level addresses discrimination on the grounds of sexuality or transgender identity and the extent to which Commonwealth legislation should take account of these provisions.' State and Territory anti-discrimination legislation is considered especially in Chapter Four. The benefits and disadvantages of various terminology; groups which are excluded or have limited coverage; areas of exemptions and the effect of these, are also examined in Chapter Four. Problems that have been identified in State and Territory legislation are discussed in the consideration of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation in Chapter Five and also in Chapter Six.

1.10 It is noted in Chapter Six that although Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation will take precedence over any incompatible State anti-discrimination legislation, it will not affect other State legislation. Therefore it is possible for State legislation to circumvent the operation of aspects of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation.

1.11 The fourth term of reference was: 'the appropriate scope of Commonwealth sexuality discrimination legislation and, in particular, the need for provisions including, but not limited to, the areas of:

(a) public education;

(b) appropriate exemptions;

(c) dispute resolution;

(d) remedies;

(e) the availability of class actions; and

(f) review of the legislation.'

These matters are considered in Chapter Five in particular.

1.12 The final term of reference concerns 'The extent to which the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 effectively addresses the issues of sexuality and transgender discrimination and vilification and the nature of any amendments required to make it more effective.' These issues have been considered inter alia throughout the report; the extent of amendments, however, is restricted by the bill being limited in effect to Commonwealth legislation.

Terms and Definitions

1.13 One of the major difficulties in developing legislation which meets specific needs of groups of people is that the individuals affected by current discriminatory practices are often difficult to define and may differ substantially from other groups of people who are also discriminated against on the basis of sexuality or gender identity.

1.14 Not to acknowledge this fact is to consider all members of non-heterosexual groups or all persons of some transgender status to be indistinguishable and to be more easily classified according to their sexual orientation or their preferred gender identity than by any other feature.

1.15 The variety of response to the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 and the technical difficulty of providing adequate protection to some groups [8] requires an acknowledgment of differences and some acknowledgment of preferences in terminology. This is not without problems, and it is acknowledged that the term non-heterosexual, although intended to be a shorthand means of referring to people whose sexual orientation is other than exclusively heterosexual, may feel they are being defined against the norm of heterosexuality- 'heterosexuals always seem to be ranked first in terms of the hierarchy that is created judicially and legislatively, and then we sort of clump homosexuals into one category.' [9]

1.16 As with other groups in society, there are differences within the wide category of people termed homosexual, bisexual or transgender. These differences concern status, the validity or otherwise of other people's sexual orientation or gender identity and the extent to which various rights should be developed or extended to all members of society. Political, socio-economic and other factors have shaped people's experience and influenced their expectations and their attitudes towards others, and these were an important part of their evidence.

1.17 A number of issues were identified relating to terminology. These went beyond words or phrases used to describe individuals or groups, having to do more with the status of sexuality or gender, or with the means by which previous inequities could or should be redressed.

Homosexual and Lesbian

1.18 In the current draft of the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995, the term 'homosexual' is used to mean both male and female homosexuals, or gays and lesbians. As noted by the author of the bill, former Senator Spindler, the term legally applied to both. [10]

1.19 Although it was acknowledged that the term was often used as a form of shorthand and meant to encompass both male and female, [11] there was considerable discussion as to whether the word 'lesbian' should be specifically included in the bill. [12] A majority of persons commenting on this issue supported inclusion, believing that a failure to mention 'lesbian' could reinforce the belief that males were dominant in homosexual life and that women were ignored or invisible. [13]

1.20 In particular it was stated that the nature of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation - which has generally been less formal and legalistic - effectively demanded terminology which increased access. Lesbians may believe that any legislation which mentions 'homosexual' but not 'lesbian' is not providing coverage to them: [14]

'I take the point that legally homosexuality includes lesbians but I am not sure that that sort of distinction is very useful when you are talking about legislation which is aimed at providing an informal dispute resolution mechanism, something that can be initiated by people by themselves, perhaps with some help from a member of the commission or the appropriate body. But generally it is supposed to be an accessible piece of legislation.' [15]

1.21 While there was considerable support for inclusion, the Australian Law Reform Commission advised that the inclusion of the word 'lesbian' could be tautologous insofar as the word 'homosexual' was understood to refer to both men and women. [16] However, it is possible to accommodate this concern while still meeting the identified needs of others.

Recommendation 1

That the term lesbian be included in the Sexuality Discrimination Bill, as follows:

Clause 5, Definitions

'homosexuality'

'homosexuality' means the identity of being gay, lesbian, or homosexual.

Bisexual

1.22 Bisexual people are also invisible relative to gays and lesbians. They are not specifically mentioned in Queensland and Victorian legislation, but bisexual activity is legal in both states since heterosexual and homosexual activity is legal. Bisexual people are not referred to in New South Wales legislation and the legislation there does not prohibit discrimination against people on the grounds of their bisexual status or, indeed, heterosexual status. [17]

1.23 The Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 includes 'bisexuality' in the definition of 'sexuality'. However, this in itself does not prevent some forms of discrimination against bisexuals, such as exclusion from sexuality-specific services (for example, gay or lesbian health services or clubs - exclusion from 'heterosexual' or mainstream organisations is not permitted). If specific needs of bisexual people are identified and these are not met by either heterosexual or homosexual services, the affirmative action provisions of the legislation could also be of assistance through allowing the development of specific organisations. [18]

1.24 However, any discrimination experienced by bisexual people could also be limited by requiring all publicly funded services such as health, legal and educational services to provide services to bisexual and transgender persons. [19] Sexuality-specific social organisations could be exempt.

Recommendation 2

All organisations receiving Commonwealth funding must provide access to services on equal terms to bisexual persons, and to transgender persons.

1.25 Related issues, such as harassment, are considered below at Chapter 2 [20] and at Recommendation 1 of Chapter 2 and at Chapter 4. [21]

Asexual/Asexuality

1.26 There was little reference to asexuality in submissions or oral evidence, and no indication that people were discriminated against on the basis of having no apparent sexual orientation. If all other forms of legal sexual orientation are to be listed in the definitions of the Sexuality Discrimination Bill, then asexuality should also be added. [22]

Recommendation 3

That 'asexuality' be added to the definition of sexuality in the Sexuality Discrimination Bill.

Clause 5, Definitions

'Sexuality means heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality'.

http://www.hpcc.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~gep98r/sexcost/sld001.htm

Is she still here...? I read old discusions and she was here all the time... I can't find her email addy anywhere, which is a shame :-( I would have loved to have spoken to her... Geri

Most link thingy's don't work for me on the bookmarks page :-( The link in this article also errored on me :-O Cheers, Geri

Ok, so this weeks round of google searches turned up some new asexuality related hits. Thought I'd make them available to everyone and ask if the origionators were on the forum yet. (P.S., what do you think of making serious use of the bookmarks section, now that we have one?)

http://www.bent-voices.org/asexual.htm

Also, some interesting quotes. 1) An article about asexuals from '99. Where are they now?

The New Minority - The Asexuals? I suppose it had to happen. It seems that there just weren't enough sexual preference groups around. It may only be in it's infancy but watch out for the newly vocal group of people whose sexual preference is that of asexuality. James Buffalino, Time Out New York's "sexpert", has had people writing in proclaiming their asexuality as meriting serious and positive attention. They are proud of their status and want it to be taken seriously - to be legitimized. Granted a lot of people with seemingly unusual sexual preferences write into Buffalino's column for advice and to express their ideas. Why should I take the asexuals more seriously than the the amputee fetishists? Well, there's something tells me that the self-proclaimed asexuals writers to the column, "Get Naked" are just the tip of the iceberg. America is very big on puritanism, and New Yorkers seem to busy for anything but work. They can't seem to get invited out on a second date. There's even a dating agency whose proudly proclaims "We Make Dating Fun". What is it meant to be? Miserable? So it would seem that if New Yorkers are going to be mateless and isolated, they might just as well make a movement of it.

2) Apparently the folks who think of sexual spectri have been worrying about asexuality for at least a little while..

Michael Storms proposed a new sexuality scale in 1980, that used an x-y axis rather than a line between extremes, to include asexuality as well as bisexuality. The third scale was developed by Fritz Klein. He used several indicators to define sexual orientation, such as sexual attraction, sexual behavior, sexual fantasies, emotional preference, social preference, self-identification and lifestyle, and he asked the subject to use the Kinsey scale to rank each indicator for the past, the present (in the past year) and their ideal future goal. The fourth scale, the Multidimensional Scale of Sexuality was published in 1990 and contrasts categories of bisexuality, homosexuality, heterosexuality and asexuality, using some concepts from both Klein and Storms. These scales do not show the whole picture of someone's identity, and there has been some feminist critique of their methodology and of attaching numbers to sexuality, but I think they are a useful tool for getting a picture of the continuum of people's sexuality beyond just either heterosexual

2) The Australian parlaiment added asexuality to thier nondescrimination clause:

Senate Legal and Constitutional Committee

Inquiry into Sexuality Discrimination

CHAPTER ONE

INTRODUCTION

History of the Reference

1.1 The Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 was developed by the Australian Democrats Party, particularly the then Senator Sid Spindler (Victoria). At the introduction of the bill into the Senate on 29 November 1995 Senator Spindler's second reading speech outlined the major reasons for the development of the bill. These included:

* that people receive equal treatment in areas governed by Commonwealth law and are protected against discrimination on the grounds of their sexuality or their transgender identity; * that no special rights are developed for people of transgender status or non-heterosexuals but that they have rights equal to those available to others; * that there be protection for people who are going through a gender re-assignment process 'or identifying as transsexuals'. [1]

1.2 Senator Spindler acknowledged the concerns of some members of the community by stating that the bill did not represent an attack on marriage; did not encourage paedophilia; and did not seek to give to the non-heterosexual community rights more extensive than those available to others. It sought only to ensure that people had equal access to rights, and that they were not discriminated against in a number of areas, primarily those under Commonwealth control. [2] Areas of discrimination included superannuation and insurance, employment, education, industrial relations, the provisions of goods and services; protection against vilification was also seen as essential.

1.3 The development of the bill was based on the premise that the Commonwealth had power under the external affairs power of the Constitution to develop legislation which would implement the provisions of international treaties or conventions. A further premise was that the major international covenant - the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) - was concerned with the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexuality and transgender status. [3]

1.4 The Bill was referred to the Senate Legal and Constitutional References Committee on 30 May 1996. [4] It was originally to report by the first sitting day in March 1997. Given a substantial increase in the workload of the Committee during early 1997, further extensions were granted to 2 June 1997, [5] to 30 October 1997, [6] and to the last sitting day of 1997. [7]

1.5 The Committee received 436 submissions, and these are listed at Appendix 1. It held nine public hearings, in all States and Territories except the Northern Territory, in the period 6 August to 22 October 1996. Persons giving evidence at these hearings are listed at Appendix 2.

Terms of Reference

1.6 The following report deals with each of the terms of reference by considering them in a specific chapter or section of a chapter or over several chapters, as the case may be. The first part of the first term of reference is 'the need to protect Australian citizens against discrimination and vilification on the grounds of their sexuality or transgender identity'. This is a complex issue dealing with the identification of discrimination and vilification expressed against two distinct groups of people in a wide range of areas. It is considered especially in Chapters Two, Five and Six.

1.7 The second part of the first term of reference is to consider the need for protection against discrimination and vilification ' with particular reference to Australia's international obligations in relation to sexuality discrimination and transgender identity and the action required to meet those obligations.' The international context of the debate is discussed in Chapter Three, which also examines the basis of power for the Commonwealth to develop anti-discrimination legislation. The issue of the action required to meet those obligations is also discussed, in Chapter Two. Chapters Five and Six outline some of the issues that arise in respect of anti-discrimination legislation and identify some areas where change may be needed in order to meet stated objectives of the legislation. Reference is made especially to issues which are not covered by the legislation and the concerns expressed by some groups that the legislation would not address matters of most concern to them.

1.8 The second term of reference is 'Measures which need to be taken to remove any legislative and administrative provisions which are currently discriminatory on the grounds of a person's sexuality or transgender identity'. It has been argued by some witnesses that the limitation of the legislation to Commonwealth legislation means that some important issues will not be addressed, and these concerns are referred to as they occur in Chapters Three to Six. The specific problems with existing legislation within scope are especially considered in Chapters Five and Six.

1.9 The third term of reference is 'The extent to which current legislation at a State level addresses discrimination on the grounds of sexuality or transgender identity and the extent to which Commonwealth legislation should take account of these provisions.' State and Territory anti-discrimination legislation is considered especially in Chapter Four. The benefits and disadvantages of various terminology; groups which are excluded or have limited coverage; areas of exemptions and the effect of these, are also examined in Chapter Four. Problems that have been identified in State and Territory legislation are discussed in the consideration of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation in Chapter Five and also in Chapter Six.

1.10 It is noted in Chapter Six that although Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation will take precedence over any incompatible State anti-discrimination legislation, it will not affect other State legislation. Therefore it is possible for State legislation to circumvent the operation of aspects of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation.

1.11 The fourth term of reference was: 'the appropriate scope of Commonwealth sexuality discrimination legislation and, in particular, the need for provisions including, but not limited to, the areas of:

(a) public education;

(b) appropriate exemptions;

(c) dispute resolution;

(d) remedies;

(e) the availability of class actions; and

(f) review of the legislation.'

These matters are considered in Chapter Five in particular.

1.12 The final term of reference concerns 'The extent to which the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 effectively addresses the issues of sexuality and transgender discrimination and vilification and the nature of any amendments required to make it more effective.' These issues have been considered inter alia throughout the report; the extent of amendments, however, is restricted by the bill being limited in effect to Commonwealth legislation.

Terms and Definitions

1.13 One of the major difficulties in developing legislation which meets specific needs of groups of people is that the individuals affected by current discriminatory practices are often difficult to define and may differ substantially from other groups of people who are also discriminated against on the basis of sexuality or gender identity.

1.14 Not to acknowledge this fact is to consider all members of non-heterosexual groups or all persons of some transgender status to be indistinguishable and to be more easily classified according to their sexual orientation or their preferred gender identity than by any other feature.

1.15 The variety of response to the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 and the technical difficulty of providing adequate protection to some groups [8] requires an acknowledgment of differences and some acknowledgment of preferences in terminology. This is not without problems, and it is acknowledged that the term non-heterosexual, although intended to be a shorthand means of referring to people whose sexual orientation is other than exclusively heterosexual, may feel they are being defined against the norm of heterosexuality- 'heterosexuals always seem to be ranked first in terms of the hierarchy that is created judicially and legislatively, and then we sort of clump homosexuals into one category.' [9]

1.16 As with other groups in society, there are differences within the wide category of people termed homosexual, bisexual or transgender. These differences concern status, the validity or otherwise of other people's sexual orientation or gender identity and the extent to which various rights should be developed or extended to all members of society. Political, socio-economic and other factors have shaped people's experience and influenced their expectations and their attitudes towards others, and these were an important part of their evidence.

1.17 A number of issues were identified relating to terminology. These went beyond words or phrases used to describe individuals or groups, having to do more with the status of sexuality or gender, or with the means by which previous inequities could or should be redressed.

Homosexual and Lesbian

1.18 In the current draft of the Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995, the term 'homosexual' is used to mean both male and female homosexuals, or gays and lesbians. As noted by the author of the bill, former Senator Spindler, the term legally applied to both. [10]

1.19 Although it was acknowledged that the term was often used as a form of shorthand and meant to encompass both male and female, [11] there was considerable discussion as to whether the word 'lesbian' should be specifically included in the bill. [12] A majority of persons commenting on this issue supported inclusion, believing that a failure to mention 'lesbian' could reinforce the belief that males were dominant in homosexual life and that women were ignored or invisible. [13]

1.20 In particular it was stated that the nature of Commonwealth anti-discrimination legislation - which has generally been less formal and legalistic - effectively demanded terminology which increased access. Lesbians may believe that any legislation which mentions 'homosexual' but not 'lesbian' is not providing coverage to them: [14]

'I take the point that legally homosexuality includes lesbians but I am not sure that that sort of distinction is very useful when you are talking about legislation which is aimed at providing an informal dispute resolution mechanism, something that can be initiated by people by themselves, perhaps with some help from a member of the commission or the appropriate body. But generally it is supposed to be an accessible piece of legislation.' [15]

1.21 While there was considerable support for inclusion, the Australian Law Reform Commission advised that the inclusion of the word 'lesbian' could be tautologous insofar as the word 'homosexual' was understood to refer to both men and women. [16] However, it is possible to accommodate this concern while still meeting the identified needs of others.

Recommendation 1

That the term lesbian be included in the Sexuality Discrimination Bill, as follows:

Clause 5, Definitions

'homosexuality'

'homosexuality' means the identity of being gay, lesbian, or homosexual.

Bisexual

1.22 Bisexual people are also invisible relative to gays and lesbians. They are not specifically mentioned in Queensland and Victorian legislation, but bisexual activity is legal in both states since heterosexual and homosexual activity is legal. Bisexual people are not referred to in New South Wales legislation and the legislation there does not prohibit discrimination against people on the grounds of their bisexual status or, indeed, heterosexual status. [17]

1.23 The Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 includes 'bisexuality' in the definition of 'sexuality'. However, this in itself does not prevent some forms of discrimination against bisexuals, such as exclusion from sexuality-specific services (for example, gay or lesbian health services or clubs - exclusion from 'heterosexual' or mainstream organisations is not permitted). If specific needs of bisexual people are identified and these are not met by either heterosexual or homosexual services, the affirmative action provisions of the legislation could also be of assistance through allowing the development of specific organisations. [18]

1.24 However, any discrimination experienced by bisexual people could also be limited by requiring all publicly funded services such as health, legal and educational services to provide services to bisexual and transgender persons. [19] Sexuality-specific social organisations could be exempt.

Recommendation 2

All organisations receiving Commonwealth funding must provide access to services on equal terms to bisexual persons, and to transgender persons.

1.25 Related issues, such as harassment, are considered below at Chapter 2 [20] and at Recommendation 1 of Chapter 2 and at Chapter 4. [21]

Asexual/Asexuality

1.26 There was little reference to asexuality in submissions or oral evidence, and no indication that people were discriminated against on the basis of having no apparent sexual orientation. If all other forms of legal sexual orientation are to be listed in the definitions of the Sexuality Discrimination Bill, then asexuality should also be added. [22]

Recommendation 3

That 'asexuality' be added to the definition of sexuality in the Sexuality Discrimination Bill.

Clause 5, Definitions

'Sexuality means heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality'.

I received 10...

And what do YOU mean? My post and your post is all I have seen. There must be something wrong here...How many posts have you seen for the month of March?

jay

What do you mean...? There have been loads of post!!!!!

I could come up with an equally long list of celibate/asexual writers, artists, and composers.

Are there really...? I can never find any...!!!!

Hi Geri (Memofromjaggerbook), I looked at your new web page which you have placed in the group's "bookmarks". It's pretty neat, but it looks like you wrote the whole document. I recognized parts of my messages and parts of other people's messages in there so I know that you did not write all of it yourself. At the top, you did put "Asexuals Worldwide" or something like that, which is good. The long part of the page opens up with "hey it's me Geri" or something and closes with your name at the bottom. Can you, maybe, change the color of the text for each new "asexual voice" that you copied in the body of the text? I realize that you were just cutting and pasting parts of different messages so that many asexual voices can be expressed on your page, but you might want to put quotation marks around the parts that you copied from other people's messages or change the color of the text each time a new asexual voice is speaking or somehow show that the text was actually written by several people. Otherwise, it's a very neat idea to have put all of that information together like that. :o)

I admit that a formal list is difficult to come up with, because it is often difficult to tell whether famous individuals remained single/celibate voluntarily or involuntarily. Then of course it could be that a certain fraction of "celibates" were actually closet homosexuals. With that qualification however, here's a incomplete list of famous asexuals/celibates:

In Mathematics/Science: Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, G.H. Hardy, E.B. Ford, Ramanujan (I forget the first name), Paul Erdos

In Music: Georg Frederick Handel, Franz Schubert (may have been homosexual), Modest Mussorgsky, Anton Bruckner (known to flirt with teenage girls, but never married), Nikolai Miaskovsky, Maurice Ravel

Philosophers/Writers: George Bernard Shaw, John Ruskin (both GBS and JR married but asexual), Emily Dickinson (rumored to be lesbian), Immanuel Kant, Friedrich Nietzsche, Oswald Spengler

Politicians: Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger, Frederick William II of Prussia

maxnova99 said:

I could come up with an equally long list of celibate/asexual writers, artists, and composers.

Are there really...? I can never find any...!!!!

Sorry Maxnova99, but Schubert was not asexual. Most musicologists believe that he was bi, but there's no way he was celibate because he died of syphilis at the age of 31. He never married, true enough, but his tight-knit circle of friends (called the Schubertians) are believed to be lovers amongst themselves or male prostitutes. Now, Schubert himself was not a prostitute, clearly. He was rather shy in nature, but also rumored to have a dark side, "a black-winged demon of sorrow and melancholy" which was expressed through excessive drinking and sensual living. I didn't mean to burst your bubble.

Thanks great to know there might have actually been famous A's :-)!! Hugs, Geri

I admit that a formal list is difficult to come up with, because it is often difficult to tell whether famous individuals remained single/celibate voluntarily or involuntarily. Then of course it could be that a certain fraction of "celibates" were actually closet homosexuals. With that qualification however, here's a incomplete list of famous asexuals/celibates:

In Mathematics/Science: Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, G.H. Hardy, E.B. Ford, Ramanujan (I forget the first name), Paul Erdos

In Music: Georg Frederick Handel, Franz Schubert (may have been homosexual), Modest Mussorgsky, Anton Bruckner (known to flirt with teenage girls, but never married), Nikolai Miaskovsky, Maurice Ravel

Philosophers/Writers: George Bernard Shaw, John Ruskin (both GBS and JR married but asexual), Emily Dickinson (rumored to be lesbian), Immanuel Kant, Friedrich Nietzsche, Oswald Spengler

Politicians: Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger, Frederick William II of Prussia

memofromjaggerbook said:

maxnova99 said:

I could come up with an equally long list of celibate/asexual writers, artists, and composers.

Are there really...? I can never find any...!!!!

True... I thought of that too ... But when it was finished people I showed it too who'd never been to the group got confused and said that doing it like that made it so difficult to read they stopped after a while, so I turned it into one complete story ... *Geri thinks on* I can put with "thanks to all at Haven" at the end and place a link...!! Yeah I will!! Ok expect to see that soon!! Cheers, Geri

Hi Geri (Memofromjaggerbook), I looked at your new web page which you have placed in the group's "bookmarks". It's pretty neat, but it looks like you wrote the whole document. I recognized parts of my messages and parts of other people's messages in there so I know that you did not write all of it yourself. At the top, you did put "Asexuals Worldwide" or something like that, which is good. The long part of the page opens up with "hey it's me Geri" or something and closes with your name at the bottom. Can you, maybe, change the color of the text for each new "asexual voice" that you copied in the body of the text? I realize that you were just cutting and pasting parts of different messages so that many asexual voices can be expressed on your page, but you might want to put quotation marks around the parts that you copied from other people's messages or change the color of the text each time a new asexual voice is speaking or somehow show that the text was actually written by several people. Otherwise, it's a very neat idea to have put all of that information together like that. :o)

Long overdue, here's my asexual "story."

I have been asexual for as long as I can remember. This statement is a good deal more complicated than it sounds. After all, children are (when compared to most adults) asexual as a rule. There is a period, for me it was around fifth grade, when sexuality (or at least its most fringe trappings) suddenly becomes fashionable. It happens gradually, people begin to discuss crushes, a cumbersome social construct called dating flies in from the rafters, and suddenly subtly you begin to understand that the scene around you has changed. Everyone else has begun to move, something inside them has begun to sputter and whir as they tenuously inch around this new environment, and here you are stuck in neutral, undeveloped. This is one of the chief reasons why the majority of asexual people remain hidden in the sexual shadows of our culture, it is easier to realize a shift in an unexpected direction than no shift at all. It is all too easy to sit there diligently, to wait, to play along until the time comes, until we find the Right One. Most asexual people forget entirely that they are waiting, slipping through the conveniently abundant cracks and going about the rest of their life. It takes others well into their 20s to realize that something is going on not listed in the owners manual. For me the realization came at 14. As I said earlier, it wasnt until 5th grade that my world really became a sexual one. I reacted, along with my then-asexual peers, in a mix of confusion excitement and disbelief. By the time I got to middle school the excitement and disbelief had faded, and the confusion had developed its usual accompaniment of fear. I had no idea, at that point, what sexual attraction WAS, only that it was unpredictable and potentially focused towards me. I was terrified that someone might be attracted to me, I avoided all contact with girls and my interactions with other boys were limited to nonsexual topics. Doubtless I would have stayed that way, if not for a set of lucky circumstances during my freshman year of high school. My freshman class was female-dominated (as many are at that time), and in my freshman year a sizable chunk of the social core of my grade, about 4 or 5 girls, all came out. This was a godsend, suddenly I had a group of people who were not going to be attracted to people and who were not going to expect me to prove my masculinity by being attracted to others. I someone managed to ingratiate misled with some of them, and in that friendship I had my first space to discuss what was going on. I struggled with terms, ideas, and implications, eventually settling on the phonetically awkward term ansexual and not really knowing where to go from there. Then a second circumstance got me, literally, oriented. That summer I went to a weeklong camp called Anytown that dealt with issues of oppression. The week was emotionally intense and life-changing in more ways than the one listed here. During the day when we focused on heterosexism and homophobia the word asexual was put up in a list of terms. Trying desperately to contain my excitement I nonchalantly asked the presenters for more information, which they could not provide. The word itself was enough. Everything that I had been going through, everything I had been trying to figure out now had a concrete term. I now had reason to believe that my lack of sexual attraction was not a problem or insufficiency on my part, but something legitimate in and of itself. I was determined to figure out what. When I returned to school I set out on an aggressive campaign, trying to figure out what exactly sexuality WAS so I could find a place where I fit. I began to become more comfortable with kids who were bi or straight but in committed relationships (there wasnt an out gay male population at my school), then with people who were single. I let them in on my secret and drilled them incessantly: what did sexual attraction feel like? What was so appealing or important about kissing someone? What was flirting? What was the difference between thinking that someone was interesting and finding them attractive? Throughout high school I gathered the pieces of the puzzle, fitting them together and becoming increasingly confident as I did. Soon I became the person to come to for relationship advice, I rose in the social ranks and became increasingly adept at dispelling sexual tension. My friendships became closer, and as they became more intimate they became increasingly awkward. In high school (as in a good deal of life) the only models we are given for extremely intimate relationships are sexual ones, and I struggled with relationships that lay somewhere between just friends and dating. The first of these could not take the tension, neither my friend nor I knew what close intimacy without sexuality looked like, and the relationship eventually shook itself apart. I began to think of intimacy on my own terms, outside of notions of dating, and my relationships became more stable. As senior year rolled around and I began to look at colleges my thinking took on a new dimension. Here was an opportunity to redefine myself, to figure out what roll I wanted asexuality to play in my life. I wound up deciding on Wesleyan University, a small liberal arts school in Connecticut with a strong political history and an active queer community. My first day had me anxious about where asexuality fit into this knew stage. I was reasonably comfortable with what it was, but did not really know what I wanted my close relationships to look like, or what, if anything, I wanted to do about it. I quickly found myself surrounded by energetic queer politics, and was not certain how (if at all) I wanted to have an asexual equivalent. After 4 years of looking I had yet to find another asexual person. Fully aware of the complex set of circumstances which led me to understand my asexuality I was aware that the vast majority of asexual people were probably still struggling with finding their identity, and I wanted desperately to make my thinking around asexuality visible. In high school I had not been out to my parents, so my asexual dealings had been limited to those few friendships where it was a topic I was comfortable discussing, but in college there were no such limitations. Uncertain of striking out on my own I waited tenuously for a semester, getting accustomed to college life and becoming comfortable with queer politics. Over winter break I finally told my parents that I was asexual, and when I got back to campus I began to tell my friends. Then, for the first time, an internet search on asexuality found a hit on something other than plant life. An article, written for an online periodical, outlined someone who experienced asexuality in almost exactly the same way that I did. I was ecstatic. Inspired and newly motivated I put up my own website, the Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN), which outlined my thinking on asexuality. I soon began to find other asexual people on the internet, and in a series of excited e-mails and phone conversations finally found people who shared my experience. As AVEN worked its way into different search engines I began to receive more and more e-mail from people as excited as I had been to find others like them. In August of that summer, after returning from being on staff at Anytown (where asexuality was now defined and discussed in detail) I got an e-mail from a member of an online asexual community, the Haven for the Human Amoeba. I dove in headfirst, for the first time discussing asexual issues in a group. Around when I joined the group took off, moving (in the course of about a month) from a few messages a month to up to 15 a day. Membership skyrocketed, and continues (assisted by a link on AVEN) to today. Inspired by this newfound community I returned to Wesleyan politically charged. I took a more active asexual stance in the campus queer group, and gave a lecture on asexuality which drew about 70. This is about where I am today. Asexuality has begun to provide a radical new perspective among my friends and in the Wesleyan queer world on everything from relationships to gender identity. Articles about asexuality appear in the campus newspaper, different groups have requested that I lead additional discussions on asexuality, and I have traveled to different campuses to introduce asexuality there. The amoebas are more active than ever, and membership continues to grow.

As I had said in the disclaimer to my list, it is really hard to know one way or the other with long-dead famous people.

The version I had heard about Schubert was that he was very shy and largely indifferent sexually. One of his close friends was a real Casanova and tried to get Schubert interested in that whole lifestyle. According to the version I read, Schubert's friend took him to a brothel which was where the latter had most likely contracted syphilis. I've heard a similar story about Nietzsche. Now, if you define asexuals as a one who never had sexual experiences, that would disqualify him (and many people on this board), but I define it in terms of one's mindset and preference.

Perhaps your version of the Schubert story is true, I really don't know. It may be for the best that we don't know, because I believe that most of the "greats" of history deserve better treatment than having their dirty laundry inspected as if they were nothing but Hollywood celebrities.

Ok, just wanted to report on the asexual activism stuff I've been up to. I'm curious if anyone else is up to anythign similar, maybe we could coordinate efforts. Also alot of what I"ve been doing is spread out around different college campuses, maybe I should start putting out the campuses I'm hitting so that anyone on this list knows to go to their campuses queer group meeting that day.

Over spring break I've talked to queer groups at Oberlin and Georgetown about asexuality stuff (I didn't get to take over the meeting at GU, but I still got a little voice), at Wes I'm planning 2 more forums on asexuality and working on some more newspaper articles. Also still in the process of purchasing Asexuality.org, so I have a better place to move AVEN.

Any other ideas for stuff to do? I'm curious what other people are doing. It's difficult to coordinate at this point, but we might be able to on some level (with articles, etc.)

Oops, I'm not used to mailing directly to the group. For those of you who didn't catch on, this is Bloodyredcommie.

Hi,

Collaboration is the key. Looking at the struggle for homosexuality to be accepted, it was a long fight which only began to work when campaigns and articles pulled in the same direction.

I'd suggest that a series of core belifs, principles and future actions be formulated (my first contribution below). If we do not know what we are campaigning for then we'll stay on the margins forever.

I'd also suggest that email allows us to contact univerity psychology departments, to ask if any current research is underway and/or is available to view on the net. Creation of a central database woudld allow private research/self-exploration and the links could be placed in here.

David, where is AVEN currently located?

Regards

Citadel

1) To have asexuality recognised as a healthy, mature life- choice in the same way as any other sexuality by the state and medical professions. 2) To have asexuality included within governmental and academic research into gender and sexuality, allowing quantification of both numbers of asexuals and their reasoning 3) To encourage the inclusion of asexuality within general sex education 4) To allow "chemical" castration to be available on request, under whatever medical guidelines an individual health authority deems necessary 5) To build a positive case for asexuality as a means of individual freedom, as an intellectual choice as well as a feature "born in"

Option 4 deserves additional discussion. The procedure is performed on sex-offenders as a means of controlling their behaviour and, as it is reversible, it is considered by society to be morally acceptable. If an individual believes that their sexual drive poses a threat to others then it should be available as an option to them before they offend. It should also be available to those who wish to eliminate their sexuality for any reason , after all Viagra is freely available to those who have no medical need to increase their sexual drive so this double-standard needs to be challenged.

I note the popular perception that asexuals are predominantly gays who do not wish to be, therefore they repress their sexual urges. Some certainly are of course but asexuality is a broad church and should bee seen in that way.

It is acceptable to be asexual because you hate the opposite sex but are heterosexual in orientation. It is a logical and commendable decision to remove your compulsion to seek that which you detest, for that will only lead to hurt for yourself and others.

It is acceptable to be asexual because you love the opposite sex but wish to know them without the negative aspects of sexual attraction (jealousy, insecurity etc) clouding the relationship.

It is acceptable to be asexual for a short time, in periods of your life or from birth to the grave. Note that asexuality varies from celibacy in that you do not merely abstain but you seek to remove the desire as well. There is not a hierarchy of asexuals, where those who live it for life are somehow "better" than those who use it as an occasional tool to genuinely seek self-control.

There is no unacceptable reason for being asexual and the asexual community should embrace all at face value. This includes other within the "abstinence family" (celibates, religious groups) and efforts should be made to unite in common-cause with such people. Despite our differences we all challenge our societies to wake-up and free themselves from their sexual slavery.

Ok, just wanted to report on the asexual activism stuff I've been up to. I'm curious if anyone else is up to anythign similar, maybe we could coordinate efforts. Also alot of what I"ve been doing is spread out around different college campuses, maybe I should start putting out the campuses I'm hitting so that anyone on this list knows to go to their campuses queer group meeting that day.

Over spring break I've talked to queer groups at Oberlin and Georgetown about asexuality stuff (I didn't get to take over the meeting at GU, but I still got a little voice), at Wes I'm planning 2 more forums on asexuality and working on some more newspaper articles. Also still in the process of purchasing Asexuality.org, so I have a better place to move AVEN.

Any other ideas for stuff to do? I'm curious what other people are doing. It's difficult to coordinate at this point, but we might be able to on some level (with articles, etc.)

I did post a message before , a long one but the next day the club changed to a group and my message vanished. Instead of a long life story again I will pose a question. Is it necessary to have aexual experience to determine one's sexual state? My sex drive has always been low to non-existant. To this day I have never had sex with anyone, and can't masturbate. Yet the few times i have felt sexual it was due to meeting a good looking guy. Since I have yet to meet someone I find attractive that finds me attractive it seems that there is no way to know if I am indeed asexual. By actions yes, but by desire...who knows??

Question: Is this your story BRC and your e-mail therefore djay@... or was this story e-mailed to you? Either way it is a powerful and impactful story. Thank you for sharing!!

Long overdue, here's my asexual "story."

I have been asexual for as long as I can remember. This statement is a good deal more complicated than it sounds. After all, children are (when compared to most adults) asexual as a rule. There is a period, for me it was around fifth grade, when sexuality (or at least its most fringe trappings) suddenly becomes fashionable. It happens gradually, people begin to discuss crushes, a cumbersome social construct called dating flies in from the rafters, and suddenly subtly you begin to understand that the scene around you has changed. Everyone else has begun to move, something inside them has begun to sputter and whir as they tenuously inch around this new environment, and here you are stuck in neutral, undeveloped. This is one of the chief reasons why the majority of asexual people remain hidden in the sexual shadows of our culture, it is easier to realize a shift in an unexpected direction than no shift at all. It is all too easy to sit there diligently, to wait, to play along until the time comes, until we find the Right One. Most asexual people forget entirely that they are waiting, slipping through the conveniently abundant cracks and going about the rest of their life. It takes others well into their 20s to realize that something is going on not listed in the owners manual. For me the realization came at 14. As I said earlier, it wasn't until 5th grade that my world really became a sexual one. I reacted, along with my then-asexual peers, in a mix of confusion excitement and disbelief. By the time I got to middle school the excitement and disbelief had faded, and the confusion had developed its usual accompaniment of fear. I had no idea, at that point, what sexual attraction WAS, only that it was unpredictable and potentially focused towards me. I was terrified that someone might be attracted to me, I avoided all contact with girls and my interactions with other boys were limited to nonsexual topics. Doubtless I would have stayed that way, if not for a set of lucky circumstances during my freshman year of high school. My freshman class was female-dominated (as many are at that time), and in my freshman year a sizable chunk of the social core of my grade, about 4 or 5 girls, all came out. This was a godsend, suddenly I had a group of people who were not going to be attracted to people and who were not going to expect me to prove my masculinity by being attracted to others. I someone managed to ingratiate misled with some of them, and in that friendship I had my first space to discuss what was going on. I struggled with terms, ideas, and implications, eventually settling on the phonetically awkward term "ansexual" and not really knowing where to go from there. Then a second circumstance got me, literally, oriented. That summer I went to a weeklong camp called Anytown that dealt with issues of oppression. The week was emotionally intense and life-changing in more ways than the one listed here. During the day when we focused on heterosexism and homophobia the word "asexual" was put up in a list of terms. Trying desperately to contain my excitement I nonchalantly asked the presenters for more information, which they could not provide. The word itself was enough. Everything that I had been going through, everything I had been trying to figure out now had a concrete term. I now had reason to believe that my lack of sexual attraction was not a problem or insufficiency on my part, but something legitimate in and of itself. I was determined to figure out what. When I returned to school I set out on an aggressive campaign, trying to figure out what exactly sexuality WAS so I could find a place where I fit. I began to become more comfortable with kids who were bi or straight but in committed relationships (there wasn't an out gay male population at my school), then with people who were single. I let them in on my secret and drilled them incessantly: what did sexual attraction feel like? What was so appealing or important about kissing someone? What was flirting? What was the difference between thinking that someone was interesting and finding them attractive? Throughout high school I gathered the pieces of the puzzle, fitting them together and becoming increasingly confident as I did. Soon I became the person to come to for relationship advice, I rose in the social ranks and became increasingly adept at dispelling sexual tension. My friendships became closer, and as they became more intimate they became increasingly awkward. In high school (as in a good deal of life) the only models we are given for extremely intimate relationships are sexual ones, and I struggled with relationships that lay somewhere between "just friends" and "dating." The first of these could not take the tension, neither my friend nor I knew what close intimacy without sexuality looked like, and the relationship eventually shook itself apart. I began to think of intimacy on my own terms, outside of notions of dating, and my relationships became more stable. As senior year rolled around and I began to look at colleges my thinking took on a new dimension. Here was an opportunity to redefine myself, to figure out what roll I wanted asexuality to play in my life. I wound up deciding on Wesleyan University, a small liberal arts school in Connecticut with a strong political history and an active queer community. My first day had me anxious about where asexuality fit into this knew stage. I was reasonably comfortable with what it was, but did not really know what I wanted my close relationships to look like, or what, if anything, I wanted to do about it. I quickly found myself surrounded by energetic queer politics, and was not certain how (if at all) I wanted to have an asexual equivalent. After 4 years of looking I had yet to find another asexual person. Fully aware of the complex set of circumstances which led me to understand my asexuality I was aware that the vast majority of asexual people were probably still struggling with finding their identity, and I wanted desperately to make my thinking around asexuality visible. In high school I had not been out to my parents, so my asexual dealings had been limited to those few friendships where it was a topic I was comfortable discussing, but in college there were no such limitations. Uncertain of striking out on my own I waited tenuously for a semester, getting accustomed to college life and becoming comfortable with queer politics. Over winter break I finally told my parents that I was asexual, and when I got back to campus I began to tell my friends. Then, for the first time, an internet search on asexuality found a hit on something other than plant life. An article, written for an online periodical, outlined someone who experienced asexuality in almost exactly the same way that I did. I was ecstatic. Inspired and newly motivated I put up my own website, the Asexual Visibility and Education Network (AVEN), which outlined my thinking on asexuality. I soon began to find other asexual people on the internet, and in a series of excited e-mails and phone conversations finally found people who shared my experience. As AVEN worked its way into different search engines I began to receive more and more e-mail from people as excited as I had been to find others like them. In August of that summer, after returning from being on staff at Anytown (where asexuality was now defined and discussed in detail) I got an e-mail from a member of an online asexual community, the Haven for the Human Amoeba. I dove in headfirst, for the first time discussing asexual issues in a group. Around when I joined the group took off, moving (in the course of about a month) from a few messages a month to up to 15 a day. Membership skyrocketed, and continues (assisted by a link on AVEN) to today. Inspired by this newfound community I returned to Wesleyan politically charged. I took a more active asexual stance in the campus queer group, and gave a lecture on asexuality which drew about 70. This is about where I am today. Asexuality has begun to provide a radical new perspective among my friends and in the Wesleyan queer world on everything from relationships to gender identity. Articles about asexuality appear in the campus newspaper, different groups have requested that I lead additional discussions on asexuality, and I have traveled to different campuses to introduce asexuality there. The amoebas are more active than ever, and membership continues to grow.

Question: Is this your story BRC and therefore your e-mail being djay@... or was this sotry e-mailed to you by djay@...? Either way it is a powerful and impactful story. Thank you for sharing!!

Long overdue, here's my asexual "story."

I have been asexual for as long as I can remember. This statement is a good deal more complicated than it sounds. After all,

I can't remember if I saw your long message or not, but in any case, I'll reply to this one. It sounds to me like you're an asexual. Some of us have experienced an attraction for other people, but it usually isn't strong enough to make us want to initiate a sexual encounter with that person. That said, I'll repeat something I said before: only YOU know YOU. I can't tell you what your sexuality is, only you can do that for yourself. We're people, our personalities are constantly evolving. We're constantly discovering things about ourselves that we never knew existed before. You should be proud of yourself for raising such questions! Does someone need to have a sexual experience to determine his/her sexuality or orientation? No, I don't think so. Just being aware of how you respond to different stimuli is good enough. An attractive man stirred something in you. That's enough information about that particular stimulus. You don't have to sleep with an attractive guy to determine your full reaction to him. You can mentally picture the "scenario" instead and think about how you would react to it. You don't have to disclose the results of your mental experiment to anyone, just be aware of it for yourself. I hope this helps. In the meantime, keep questioning things, keep growing!! *:o)

I did post a message before , a long one but the next day the club changed to a group and my message vanished. Instead of a long life story again I will pose a question. Is it necessary to have aexual experience to determine one's sexual state? My sex drive has always been low to non-existant. To this day I have never had sex with anyone, and can't masturbate. Yet the few times i have felt sexual it was due to meeting a good looking guy. Since I have yet to meet someone I find attractive that finds me attractive it seems that there is no way to know if I am indeed asexual. By actions yes, but by desire...who knows??

djay@ is BRC is me, and this is (was) my story.

Question: Is this your story BRC and therefore your e-mail being djay@... or was this sotry e-mailed to you by djay@...? Either way it is a powerful and impactful story. Thank you for sharing!!

djay@w... said:

Long overdue, here's my asexual "story."

I have been asexual for as long as I can remember. This statement is a good deal more complicated than it sounds. After all,

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AVEN's currently at http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu I'm working on moving it to www.asexuality.org, no avail so far (though everyone should check out www.asexuality.net).

On a set of core beliefs: I don't think that we need to get everyone to agree with each other, or to make a set of "asexual beliefs." However, if we want to start organizing then it's probably a good idea to start thinking out what exactly asexuality means, what the collective concerns and difficulties of the asexual community are, and how they can be addressed. I agree that the notion of asexuality should be opened up to "temporary asexuals", celibates, etc (or at least most of them, I'll outline what I think are the exceptions later.)

I think that the set of obectives that you've laid out are extremely good. Let me try and give what I consider to be my asexual political philosophy, let me know what you think about it.

Life as an asexual person should not be difficult. This is one of the underlying reasons why its difficult to self-realize and to talk about it: it just shouldn't be an issue. After all, how hard could it be to NOT do something if you don't want to do it? Why is it that we make an issue out of asexuality, why is being asexual an important part of our identity, what is so difficult about it? (These are general questions to the group, my personal answer is below...)

Sex is considered important, one could go so far as to say REALLY important, in our society. (Footnote:I'm currently working on a history of why and how it's considered important, which is fascinating.) It's considered, consciously or otherwise, to be a fundamental part of intimacy, relationship security, popularity, maturity, empowerment, parenthood, and a hole slew of other stuff that can really all get by just fine without it. I feel like I constantly have to extract stuff from its sexual context in order to deal with it and make it part of my life, and I'm sick of it. This idea of sexual importance is why asexuality isn't talked about, and why people have such wierd reactions when we bring it up. They've received subconscious messages that sex is a big important all-encompassing thing, and they can't buy that we can get by without it.

I feel limited any time that people consider sex to be important. When sex is important to relationships (sexual romance, monogomy) a large section of relationships are cut off too me (etc, etc.) And the fact of the matter is that it really isn't. After extensive obeservation the best I can tell is that sex is, more than anything, a vehicle. It means 4 things intrinsically: Orgasms STDs Babies (for straight and bi ppl) Close physical contact and that's it. It becomes a big deal because people make it mean all sorts of other stuff: power, intimacy, security, play, morals, etc. In fact, it seems like the majority of sex isn't really about sex at all, but about the other stuff that people want it to mean. And it doesn't help anyone when we, as a society, try to slap extra implications on sex. Slap on religious implications and you get strict, limiting sexual codes and the persecution of GLBT people. Slap on an idea that sex and initimacy are relationed, and you get people feeling like they have to form close relationships just because they have sex (and generally failing.) As asexuals, it's our job to get everyone to stop focusing on sex so much and start focusing on all the stuff that it's representing. After all, all that stuff (power, intimacy, etc) is stuff that we can with. And it will help all the sexual people have a better idea of what's really going on.

This gets to my earlier comment about celibates. I think that alot of celibates just realize that sex isn't important and are trying to live without it to gain a sense of clarity. I don't, however, think that avoiding sex makes someone morally pure, because I don't think that sex is inherintly moral. This is why I take some issue w/ alot of religious sexual views (even if they are pro- abstinance) and take up more with the radical queer crowd. Queer and feminist politics are all about getting people to question the importance that they attach to sex (usually around sex and gender.) Anything that loosens that sense of importance is, in my opinion, a step in the right direction.

Hi Recently joined your group in search of comradery. I now understand , by reading your definations of what an asexual is that I am probably not one, although I have absolutely no sexual desire. I have in the past been a " full blown' Hetrosexual woman and have indulged and enjoyed almost every aspect of my sexuality. I beleive that I have become burnt out.....I have no interst in sex what so ever, yet I still desire a close relationship with another human being just not a sexual one.......so with that I am going to remove myself from the group and wish you all the very best........

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Sorry if we gave you the wrong impression, the vast (as far as I can tell) = maority of people in this group are people who want intimate nonsexual rela= tionships. The discussions tend to be more along the lines of general asexu= al issues and less meeting people because we're spread so thin. Past sexual= desire in no way "disqualifies" you. -BRC

Hi Recently joined your group in search of comradery. I now un= derstand , by reading your definations of what an asexual is that I am prob= ably not one, although I have absolutely no sexual desire. I have in the pa= st been a " full blown' Hetrosexual woman and have indulged and enjoyed alm= ost every aspect of my sexuality. I beleive that I have become burnt out...= ..I have no interst in sex what so ever, yet I still desire a close relatio= nship with another human being just not a sexual one.......so with that I a= m going to remove myself from the group and wish you all the very best....= ....

---

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