Haven for the Human Amoeba

Is sex really THAT intimate and personal? I feel like it varies a good deal. Besides, if someone I love is having intimate and personal relationships then that is making them more fulfilled, which (in the end) makes my relationship with them richer.

I think if you're not in a really close relationship it's hard to understand why it would a drag if your partner had sex with someone. And yes, sex by definition is very personal and intimate. Some may not believe this, but that doesn't make it not true. In my experience, this business of everyone just having sex with whomever they want whenever they want always ends up in a confused mess. To talk about it as though it were a logical and viable life style is just talk, nothing more. Faithfulness and loyalty are what make relationships work, and cheating on someone is not a way of expressing those qualities. Cheating is based on selfishness.

I'm not talking about cheating. Cheating means that someone I trust very much betrays me in some way. I'm saying I don't necessarily require my friends not to have sex with people in order to gain my trust. I think that sex CAN be personal and intimate for specific people, but I think that in the end that's something that individuals define (society tends to step in and help, which is why sex has an emotional stigma.) For me sex is not personal and intimate at all because I don't have it, so I'm intimate with people in other ways. I just want that intimacy to be recognized as being as valid as sexual intimacy. Also, polyamory is a viable, tested (and some more), lifestyle. It is as emotionally fulfilling, stable, and capable of raising children as a monogomous lifestyle (sometimes moreso.)

Is sex really THAT intimate and personal? I feel like it varies a good deal. Besides, if someone I love is having intimate and personal relationships then that is making them more fulfilled, which (in the end) makes my relationship with them richer.

I think if you're not in a really close relationship it's hard to understand why it would a drag if your partner had sex with someone. And yes, sex by definition is very personal and intimate. Some may not believe this, but that doesn't make it not true. In my experience, this business of everyone just having sex with whomever they want whenever they want always ends up in a confused mess. To talk about it as though it were a logical and viable life style is just talk, nothing more. Faithfulness and loyalty are what make relationships work, and cheating on someone is not a way of expressing those qualities. Cheating is based on selfishness.

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French kissing... I vote, ick; I just can't see the idea as appealing no matter how I look at it. In general, though, kissing (at least as referred to in the "first kiss" concept) also denotes a lot of physical contact... which I really like, so long as it's with -people- I really like. This is because-- and call me crazy-- I get a closer sense of that person through physical contact... I think partially due to my utter lack of interest in sex, I've formed some very close relationships with guys over the internet (would with girls too, but none of them seem to click personality-wise yet). The only problem I find with these relationsihps is that I want physical contact. So... I suppose, to me, a kiss would be part of that. Just not a french kiss. Eww. :-P

its all about the germs. kissing is not more than exchanging spits... and of course, according to "normal peopel", "human fluids taste good" this about that, it just gross me out i think its veyr polite to kiss someone on cheek. a french kiss is just really gross. and of course "normal people" like to know how their partner feels/tastes like at every inch on their body gross gross gross we are just too logical

At the risk of sounding stand-offish or aloof, I wish to comment on the likelihood of solitary life to be rather a step forward from depending emotionally upon relationships with others. I do not mean to belittle the bonds that people share, which are special and unique in every case, but if one can feel content with one's own presence and be happy in that event, then it should be an indication of high confidence and self-esteem, and not a sign of being "anti-social". Just my opinion.

For the most part I agree, but here was my life-- I was very good at being alone. Basically a solitary person for a long time, throughout childhood (that wasn't very long ago, incidentally) and maybe 2-3 years ago a lot of the philosophy I had been chasing finally all fit together, a lot clicked in my mind-- something like the waves of crystalization that Robert Pirsig referred to in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" except not about Quality. :-P In the meantime I'd logically developed some "friendships" with people who I wanted to study in an attempt to learn, and luckily I had made a good choice of friends, once I actually got to know them, and they me. I talked to people a lot on the internet, at least in comparison to how I'd lived before. I even ended up falling love with someone-- like the friendships I have, only it was difficult to get my friends to understand exactly what I meant most of the time-- all of us had problems being perfectly understood-- yet when I met him (still over e-mail-- and the person who I had imagined did not exist, someone else who was not interested in sex) it seemed like we could understand what the other meant despite the barrier of using language. I would always have seen dependency on relationships as a weakness, and in fact I still do-- but now I can form them, because I do NOT need them. The fact that love exists without the driving factor of needing it makes it all the more special to me.

Argh. That was long. Did it make any sense?

I would always have seen dependency on relationships as a weakness, and in fact I still do-- but now I can form them, because I do NOT need them. The fact that love exists without the driving factor of needing it makes it all the more special to me.

Argh. That was long. Did it make any sense?

Yes! It makes a lot of sense. It seems like when we long for something and need it so much, it just never works out, but when we're happy and satisfied on our own, then the right relationships just "happen".

X.

I agree entirely. (This is huge in the sexual world, people can talk to everyone but the person they have a crush on.) Though it gets difficult, because what DO you do if you want a relationship?

I would always have seen dependency on relationships as a weakness, and in fact I still do-- but now I can form them, because I do NOT need them. The fact that love exists without the driving factor of needing it makes it all the more special to me.

Argh. That was long. Did it make any sense?

Yes! It makes a lot of sense. It seems like when we long for something and need it so much, it just never works out, but when we're happy and satisfied on our own, then the right relationships just "happen".

X.

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I agree entirely. (This is huge in the sexual world, people can talk to everyone but the person they have a crush on.) Though it gets difficult, because what DO you do if you want a relationship?

that seems to be the million-dollar question, or one of them at least... right along with "why do we exist?" and "is there a god?" except with a more immediate practicality. Having been good friends with some people who've been desperate for that special someone, all I've been able to suggest is to just believe that eventually they'll appear, and until then their life is too good to waste pining about their absence... look, but don't let it take over all of who you are... and I'd suggest that they go ask the sage on the mountain too, but they never tell you what you want to hear either. :-)

OK here's a zen answer to the question "what DO you do if you want a relationship?" Know that you already have one!

I'm sure different people in this club have different views on relationships and being a loner, however here are mine. To me a relationship is any incidental contact with another human being. Therefore I've had thousands of relationships, however in the current societies defintion of boy-girl, girl-girl, boy-boy 'special friend' relationship, I've never had one. I don't see the point in them. I also don't see the point in having friends. For quite a few years I was the loniest person on the planet, a long distance runner. But you know what, I was extremely happy back then. My thoughts were so clear. I was reluctantly drawn into a group of friends. For a few years it was a lot of fun, but lately I was told that 'I'm no fun unless I'm drunk'. It seems that without alcohol I revert back to my former loner sense. Some people's dream is to die with a lot of friends and a huge funeral. I want the exact opposite. In fact my dream is to become a sheep herder in New Zealand. My point is this, my asexuality stems from personality. Since I enjoy being alone, asexuality is the only natural choice for me.

I know what you mean about the running thing. I used to run cross- country when I was in high school and there is something about that form of exercise that really does clear your mind. I enjoy being alone at times, but I also go nuts if I never have anyone to talk to. I am highly affected by the dynamic of my work environment and I begin to hate my job if there is tension between co-workers. I also like to keep a moderate amount of close friends and lots of good acquaintances. I think I am capable of holding a close, one-on-one relationship with someone as long as there's no sex. It's so hard find someone who is willing to comply with that sort of lifestyle. Since I've started visiting this site, I've noticed there are two main types of asexuals: those who do not want to have any sort of relationship at all, and those who want all the perks of living in a monogamous relationship without the sex. I think I fall into the latter category because I am very open about my feelings with people and I simply feel that sex is the root of many evils. A lot of people think it's money, but I believe that the evils that come about from lust are far worse and widespread than greed created by money.

That last part of my paragraph may sound a bit religious, but I'm not at all. It's just based on my observations of other people's sexual encounters gone bad.

It's likely that I don't see the whole picture, but it seems to me that friends who say you're only fun while you're drunk don't understand you, nor do they want to.... Is your desire for solitude absolute, or do you just prefer not to be around people often but enjoy company on occasion?

******

I know what you mean when you say that people willing to be part of a monogamous relationship without sex is difficult! For a while (when I was still of the opinion that asexuality was just a random quirk of mine that was an even less common thing than it seems now) I mostly gave up the hope of ever finding someone who was content without sex. It wasn't a problem at the time, since I have yet to actually look for an exclusive relationship... but, amazingly enough, I did find another person who emphasized the unimportance of sex, simply through a large website where we both happened to have poetry galleries; and the fact that we hit it off just as personalities in general was wonderful. Ehurm... Ok, I shall now shut up and get to the point: yes, a one-on-one relationship without sex is probably quite difficult to find, but it's worth looking for. (besides, this forum may be a good starting point, no?)

You know what, I think I'm confused about the whole relationship thing. One part of me wants to be in one with a person who genuinely cares about me. However another part of me wants to stay unattached so I don't have to worry about responsiblities. It all depends on the time of the year and that sort of thing. For example, around Valentine's day I feel like being in an intimate relationship giving flowers and cuddling (no sex however). Then during spring break, I'm so glad I'm single so I can just let loose and have fun without any guilt or regret. Just as sexuality doesn't have clearly defined boundaries, I don't think wanting or not wanting an intimate relationship is clearly defined. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence they same. I'm not religious either, but I'm exactly sure that lust is any more harmful than greed or sloth or pride or gluttony or jealousy or the last sin which I forgot. 6 out of 7 ain't bad. My theory is that all of these so called sins are just as dangerous. However in our current 'society' it is true that sex is used and abused, but I think it goes hand in hand with money and power. I guess the main point is there's always a middle road and the majority of the people follow it.

Absofsteel - I definitely agree with the mixed feelings about relationships. I go through phases where I almost want to give in and date because I'm so lonely, but reason always prevails and my self-imposed high standards keep me from getting into a relationship I'll regret. I think that someone who truly cares about you would not make you feel bad about not wanting to have sex. One shouldn't have to work as hard at an asexual relationship. I hate the way sexual relationships are complicated with self-doubt. "Am I smart enough, thin enough, funny enough, did I shave my legs, did I remember the birth control, am I sufficiently satisfying my partner, etc. . .???" Asexual relationships are free from all these complications that cause 'weirdness.' It's (forgive me for using this term) *natural* for a human being to want the company of human beings. I know we're in a forum where the concept of what's natural is abolished, but from a sociological point of view, humans are a very social species. Your friends in the past sound like real jerks for telling you that you're fun only when you're drunk. Perhaps an understanding, asexual person will change your mind about the definition of a friend.

I know exactly the feeling of not needing a relationship. It's teh only way anything ever works.

If you are to be happy with someone else, you have to first be happy with yourself. If you bring self hatred or even just low self esteem to a relationship, then you will try to find your worth in teh relationship, and we're at one of the problems that plagues sexuality. If, however, you are fully happy with just yourself, it allows you to become more interested in the other people around you, without needing the relationship to be any certain way. I'm currently engaged right now, and this is how I got together with My fiance. I made it clear that I was not interested in a relationship with her, I was only interested in her. I made it clear I didn't need her, more importantly I wanted her. I think that is more meaningful, and until that was understood we were not together. This sort of thinking, while absolutely required for any understanding of an asexual reltionship, also works miracles in a sexual one as well. I'd call it the foundation of any healthy relationship.

Actually my friends told me that this weekend. Yah you're right it would be awesome to have friend that totally understands my sexuality, unfortunetly that's not the case. It gets me really pissed sometimes cuz my buddies and I go out and get drunk or whatever, and the majority of the conversation is about girls. One of my friend has an obsession with strip clubs, the other calls always wants to get some 'stupid hos'. I swear I'm surrounded by cavemen!! I mean they're all fun but I just wish I had more intelligent friends sometimes. I'm sure if a survey was taken, asexuals would be no.1 in intelligence. Its like that that line from a song by Harvey Danger 'All the stupid people are breeding and I don't even own a T.V.'

Actually my friends told me that this weekend. Yah you're right it would be awesome to have friend that totally understands my sexuality, unfortunetly that's not the case. It gets me really pissed sometimes cuz my buddies and I go out and get drunk or whatever, and the majority of the conversation is about girls. One of my friend has an obsession with strip clubs, the other calls always wants to get some 'stupid hos'. I swear I'm surrounded by cavemen!! I mean they're all fun but I just wish I had more intelligent friends sometimes. I'm sure if a survey was taken, asexuals would be no.1 in intelligence. Its like that that line from a song by Harvey Danger 'All the stupid people are breeding and I don't even own a T.V.'

*lol!* Oh my. That quote being on an asexuality forum definitely puts a new light on it. *grin!* Though, I do have good frieds who are gay/bi/straight who are perfectly accepting... though other parts of my personality are probably harder to accept, and they even take those in stride. They're great. :D

Sooo... don't suppose there are any places readily available where you could meet new friends? Do you have any hobbies that could be done socially, maybe?

I really don't know what you're like, but just in case you're anything like me, here's what I've found.... Philosophy groups sound promising, but it's quite possible that people who go somewhere specifically to discuss philosophy will be pompous asses who care about nothing more than sounding intelligent, rather than people who are actually there to think, discuss, share thoughts, and figure stuff out. Hobby groups can work out better or worse, depending on what your hobby is-- e.g., my friend likes to sew, but all the sewing groups are primarily filled with older women who she doesn't really relate to (she being an 18-year-old flaming liberal... teehee). I, on the other hand, liked to roleplay at one time. The general personalities of roleplayers fall into a few categories, I think: People who do it for fun but don't really become the character (these people are usually more for the traditional love affair plots or the rampant court jesters, but don't normally want to get into really involved plots where you HAVE to interpret new situations as your character would, and they usually don't talk much about deep thoughts outside of RPing either). People who DO get really into their characters, many times either because they want to escape the real world (it is usually not a very pleasant place for them) or because they're afraid of being themselves at all in the real world but really want an outlet where they can be. Then there are the munchkins, whose psychologies I do not understand, nor do I want to. Methink they have major attention-craving problems. Ehurm... anyway, in my case, most of my good RP friends were of the second group which, although less numerous than the first, seems to show up more in roleplaying situations than just walking down the street. *blink* Wow, am I ever good at yammering. I shall shut up now. :p

http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Interact/cp/showflat.pl? Cat=&Board=coffee&Number=176576&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=1

http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Interact/cp/showflat.pl? Cat=&Board=coffee&Number=176576&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=1

*salutes* duly replied and ranted miserably. :p

Here's the post I put up on the TeenageWildLife forum, I'm curious what you think of the argument..

Hi, I'm the not-credible Wesleyan kid who runs http://djay.mail.wesleyan.edu (which, by the way, is about a year out of date and DESPERATELY needs updating..)

andro- I don't have the details, but according to a friend of mine there are asexuality (like homosexuality) has been observed in about every sexual species on the planet. They talk about it because it fucked over Darwinian theory, and made people realize that there are ways to benefit one's species other than genetic propogation.

That being said, I want to break down this binary distinction between asexual and sexual people. It's not like all sexual people are at the same level, some are more sexual than others (just like some are sexual in different ways.) Take that to an extreme, and you get asexual people. There really isn't any line you can draw.

So why is that important?

I want to get back to the "what would asexual people talk about" question, because it's more complicated than it sounds...

Les/gay/bi people get together as a group to fuck, and to combat heterosexism.

Straight people get together to fuck, and occassionally to oppress LGB folk.

Why should asexual people get together? It's not like we have some institutionalized system of oppression working against us, there aren't people out there badmouthing asexuals (except for a little in this forum) so why bother?

Bear with me here. You can think of it like this. Sex has alot of cultural baggage. In fact, sometimes it seems like that's all it is. To get back to earlier posts, sex is often only worthwhile when it has some sort of implication (emotion/power/social status/etc.) A while ago, sexual people, especially women and queers (I use this is a politically reclaimed term, not an insult) started getting sick of all of the social implications around sex. They said that they could have "vulgar" or "wrong" sex (female-empowered sex, which is very subtley discouraged in out society. Same-gender sex, sex that blurred gender norms, sex that did not fit monogomous models of intimacy) without it being a problem. They wanted sex without all of the cultural/moral baggage, and thanks to them (and a few other people) we had a "sexual revolution" and our society, I think, is much better off for it.

Now we're coming on the next round of the sexual revolution. Before peopel were concentrating on getting sex without all the baggage. Now we want to be able to get the baggage without all the sex. Asexuals experience this the strongest, but I'd say its pretty universal. As an asexual I want things like emotionally close committed relationships, social status and personal empowerment that I'm told I have to be sexual to get. I have to struggle really hard to desexualize all these things so that I can make them a part of my life, and since other asexual people are going through the same struggle we might as well work together on it. But its not only asexual people who are doing this. Have any of you sexual people ever felt pressured to be sexual even though you didn't want to? Ever hooked up with someone just because it was socially beneficial, felt that you had to be sexual with someone when all you really wanted was to be emotional?

-BRC

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Hey I just joined, so hello all. I don't know if this is the place, but I figure I'll find out. Does "asexual" mean that one can't fall in love, and won't/can't marry? I'm not quite on that extreme... I identify myself still as straight, sure, but sex isn't something I'm looking for (is that a contradiction?). But then I think its possible to love, and make love, and find companionship in a relationship, without sex. Make any sense?

Looking for an asexual male aged 21-26 in NY area to "date". I really am looking for a boyfriend...just one that isn't really all that into the sexual stuff. (I know that I am attracted to guys, but when it comes down to the actual sexual stuff I am just not into it, I never enjoyed kissing etc, and it frustrates me). Looking for a guy who can become a great friend and then labelled a boyfriend. When everyone else has significant others its hard... I'm not really sure how this message thing works, but if you get this message and are interested email me at kidz2alabama55@a... and put amoeba in the subject line. (It is not my real email address but the one I'll use for this purpose). I'm 21/F/long island/ attractive...I have a pic if u'd like it.

Hello... you pretty much described it perfectly, took the words right out of my mouth practically. Well anyway, I'm a little older than what you were looking for, but if you want to chat with a like minded person, feel free. Sounds like we have the same philosophy on this, at least. (I thought for a long time I was perhaps nearly the only one). Steven

Im a 32 year old asexual guy living in the UK. My asexuality came about due to the fact I am extremely ugly and always assumed no woman would even look at me. As the years went on this led to the removal of any sexual feelings. I now accept I have no sexual feelings.However. I would like to hear from guys out there what there views/experiences are on the following issues.

1. Do people assume you are homosexual. Certainly in my case many people who I have come across assume I am gay.

2. Have you become asexual due to factors such as poor looks.

3. Has you asexuality lead to any adverse experiences especially from women.

I am trying to explore this side of my personality and hearing other mens views would be really intresting

1. Do people assume you are homosexual. Certainly in my case many people who I have come across assume I am gay.

I am not certain. It seems that I have been lucky in that the people who have known me in the past were all very polite. I could, at times, sense that they didn't quite understand exactly what I was aiming for, but I don't think they ever came to any conclusion in their minds over whether I was homosexual or not. If they did, I never noticed this decision behind their eyes, nor did they voice it. I think in all cases, the ones that came closest to wondering this were ex-girlfriends -- for obvious reasons.

At any rate, it never bothered me. I have always been somewhat "removed" from what other's expectations of me are.

2. Have you become asexual due to factors such as poor looks.

Not that I can detect. Ever since puberty, that is simply what I was. To the point where what I looked like, or how good looking I thought other people felt of me, really wasn't that important. It was a curiosity, sure, but that is about all. I was more worried about the fact that I couldn't get "hyped" about the whole sex thing when everyone around me was waking up to it and seemingly, utterly enthralled by it.

3. Has you asexuality lead to any adverse experiences especially from women.

Intimate relationships are very hard to maintain with a sexual person. These failed attempts would really be the only adverse experiences I can think of. In general, women enjoy my company in a relaxed sort of way. They sense that I'm not "out to get them." I've always been "one of the girls" in that sense. Transparent, often gender forgotten during conversations.

Something I just recalled, that (heh) often slips my mind, is that you could classify women who are attracted to me, and unintentionally completely ignored as a result, an adverse experience for them though I am usually not aware of the process. There has been many times in the past where a women will be attracted to me, and I'll completely miss that crucial fact, only to have it pounded into my skull by an irate friend or two, but by then she's usually decided that I am either aloof, or completely not interested in her. I wish I could notice these things earlier, so that I don't accidentally come across as being horribly rude, but I don't think it has ever happened. Oftentimes these women end up being some of my best friends once they get over their dissapointment. (This is all probably just as impacted by my extremely hard-pegged INTJ personality type, as well.)

I would say that asexuality causes more adverse tension with male friendships, but that could change as the world grows older around me. I'm not crossing my fingers, though. Offhand, I can think of only two males in my entire life that I've truly enjoyed hanging out with, and one of these I suspect is asexual.

Hey I just joined, so hello all. I don't know if this is the place, but I figure I'll find out. Does "asexual" mean that one can't fall in love, and won't/can't marry? I'm not quite on that extreme... I identify myself still as straight, sure, but sex isn't something I'm looking for (is that a contradiction?). But then I think its possible to love, and make love, and find companionship in a relationship, without sex. Make any sense?

Makes perfect sense. I figure that if sexuality were a graph (funny as that sounds) homosexuality/heterosexuality would be one axis and asexuality/sexuality would be another. Who knows how many dimensions that graph would have to be? As it is I can only think of those two variables, but more could appear.... (maybe how much commitment/real emotion you want in a relationship? for instance, some people seem to want nothing other than one-night stands, while others really want one relationship forever, others want relationships to change at different intervals)

Anyway, I think asexuality doesn't mean you can't love, just that you don't want sex with that love, that intimacy would be expressable other ways.

(This is all probably just as

impacted by my extremely hard-pegged INTJ personality type, as well.)

hmmm... this is interesting, i'm an INTJ as well. it's supposed to be a relatively rare meyers-brigg's type, isn't it (< 1% of pop.)? do any others out there know your MB personality type? perhaps there's an interesting correlation out there.

byron

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