Haven for the Human Amoeba

Okay, I'm about to go home, but I had a few other ideas so I whipped them out in Freehand and placed them on a webserver. Here they are:

<a href=http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol2.gif target=new>http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol2.gif</a>

And here are the explanations:

a. Male is Mars, Female is Venus, Transgendered took Mercury, Lesbians took a couple of Venus symbols, gay men took a couple male symbols, and bisexuals decided to create extremely elaborate complications using all of the symbols. This might be a bit pretentious, but why not take the symbol for the Sun? It has the same circle reference as before, and kind of looks neat. Plus, it has the added bonus of having a tongue-in-cheek humor reference to looking a bit like a single celled creature. :)

c. A stylized version of the mathematical symbol for UNION. 2c. is a colorized version featuring a gradient between typical male and female representing colors.

b. After looking at c. I realized it kind of had too much of a masculine slant to it, so I modified it a bit to merge a smoother slope on one side with a more masculine slope on the other. The end result is actually something I quite like.

2b. Is obviously just a colorized version of b.

abs: at this point it seems like the unifying thing here is not experiencing sexual attraction. I know that there are people here who talk about experiencing sex drive and those who don't, but that seems to be the unifying principle. I personally have an active, if sub-normal, sex drive but what's important to me is having a desire to form romantic/sexual relationships.

More on symbols: I like some of what you're doing, ioapetraka, though I think if we're going for symblicity the shifting color gradient might be a bit much. My color suggestions are either good ol' black and white or purple (a stretch of an allusion to the purple crystal Amethyst. Legend had it that if you placed amethyst in a goblet of wine you could drink from it forever and never become drunk. An image well-used in my asexual-angst poetry.) I like the idea of the sun and the amoeba-reference, but it looks to much like the "Target" symbol, the sharp/curved "V" thing is really nice though.

Here's a link to my suggestion/explanation:

<a href=http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/asexuality.htm target=new>http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/asexuality.htm</a>

I hear tngirltech's concern that it might be to close to the queer rights triangle, though it could be reoriented. And I think it's different enough (especially in black and white), to make an allusion without being confusing.

If I write any more it will make me split the message..

-DJ

Out of your suggestions I like the curved V the most. Good work, ioa. :)

Ah, yes sorry. I guess I didn't read your previous post carefully enough. I see what you are saying now and it makes sense. One of our goals is to see 'LGBA' become a reality (Where I live it is only LGB and not all the other letters that you pointed out in your post).

--GirlTech

Okay some previous posts have got me thinking and I have totally confused myself!!

I always thought that no sex drive meant no sexual attraction and vise versa. I have never seemed to have one iota of sex drive and I am trying to figure out how one could have sex drive and yet not be sexually attracted to anyone or have no desire for sex. I thought that sex drive was the drive (read desire) for sex.

I am further confused by the masturbation aspect. I feel that I have an open mind on what others do sexually (hey, it's their biz, more power to them) but if you don't have the desire to have sex, why would you want to masturbate? I always assumed that it was all tied in together.

I am not trying to alienate the members who do masturbate or have a sex drive (or say that ya'll are less of an asexual for it), I am merely trying to figure out how it all relates and how it all relates to my own sexuality.

So if some one would kindly come along and untangle my thoughts and/or give me a fresh perspective, I would really appreciate it. Thx.

--GirlTech

Wow I really like some of the stuff you are coming up with. I too appreciate the reference with the circle but it makes me think of psychology where babies are drawn to pics just like like supposedly because it looks like a breast (hey I actually remember something from psych class!). I'd like to see more ideas if you have the time. We have actually been wanting a symbol for months now but none of us are artists so that kind of put us at a standstill. Your work is really good from what little I have seen(of course I say this as being a person who can't draw a straight line). Hehe sorry to stray of topic but I am becoming a big fan of art, especailly fantasy art. :-) Well time to sign off for the night.

--GirlTech

I'll give you my ideas on this one. I talk about it some on my site, here:

<a href=http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/attraction.htm target=new>http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/attraction.htm</a>

But the basic gyst of it is that you can have a sex drive without it actually going anywhere. If I examine myself I can see that I have the mechanics of sexuality in me, I can become sexually aroused and sex, while somewhat odd and disgusting-seeming, seems like something that would feel good on some physical level. The thing is that that drive to have sex doesn't get associated with anyone. So I never meet someone and feel like I want to have a sexual relationship WITH THAT PERSON, so my sex drive doesn't really manifest itself in my interactions with people. Since my sex drive doesn't really, well, drive me to do anything (other than masterbate occassionally), I don't pay it much heed, and for all purposes am asexual.

Does that make sense?

BRC

Okay, I saw most people leaning towards the curved V and I like that one too, so I made a version that is larger, and a bit more precise. I also adjusted the top ends a bit, to just be experimental.

<a href=http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol3.gif target=new>http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol3.gif</a>

I went and read your page explaining the method behind the inverted triangle, and now that I've read the explaination it makes more sense to me. I've always viewed the states of sexuality more as a circle though. Gender sided and blended together between straight and homosexual, creating the bisexual tendancies. That way you can represent gender shifts as well as orientation shifts.

I never really tried to visualize where I was though in all of that. Somewhere in between I guess, which would ironically make the sun symbol.

(If you want to play with the source file, here is the freehand file: <a href=http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol3.fh8 target=new>http://homepage.mac.com/ioapetra/gfx/asymbol3.fh8</a>)

Okay that helps and yes it does make sense, thx. Does anyone else have any views on this?

Is there anyone here who doesn't actually experience sex drive (just wondering if I am the only one)? I don't think I have ever been sexually arroused and I have never masturbated or even had the urge to even try it. Now I do like touching and affection though it doesn't do anything for me sexually, but I think it is a part of getting to know people and human contact is always nice. That is all for now.

--GirlTech

I am, in general, repulsed by a person's physical presence. I have a very defined space around me, and if somebody crosses that line I get extremely uneasy.

However, if I am close to a person, and I trust them, the above is negated and I have no problem showing affection (in a nonsexual way). The problem is that there are probably two or three people in the world that are in this catagory. :)

I think it would most accurate to say that I do have a sex drive, it is merely "misdirected." That word doesn't really work though, because it is not really directed at any specific thing other than people. It simply exists in a null space and doesn't manifest itself phsyically. It is more an intangible drive that exerts its presence in lust for the arts, knowledge, and the love of life itself. I'm an extremely passionate person, and often get carried away by the simplest of things.

Perhaps that really isn't a sex drive persay, I've just noticed that I seem to be more passionate about innanimate things than most people, and so I wonder if perhaps it is linked to a "sex drive."

In that case, it would be best to call it something else, I'm just using a common phrase. In an evolutionary sense, perhaps my mind senses that I am the end of a genetic chain, and thus my persona should be exerted materialistically through the vehicles of art and thought, instead of being passed along genetically.

Hi! I have spoken with a couple of you before in the chat- I just joined about a month ago. I apologize for not being able to keep up with this club as often as I would like; it certainly doesn't mean I am not interested. I consider this club to be quite informative and I enjoy reading as many posts as I can. It feels good to relate to people and share opinions as we all have here. I have been under alot of stress lately due to a family illness and work changes, but things are looking better now and I remain optimistic- which brings me to say I hopefully will be able to post more often and look forward to meeting as many of you as possible. I have mentioned before that I am in search of a long term relationship but without the sex- it is just not important to me. Anyway, just wanted to say "hello" and take care- have a great day! Mike

I really liked your response, but just one question: When you masturbate, do you fantasize about a particular gender? I too am asexual but with a sex drive and was just curious as to how others viewed this

Again, there are various levels here, from what I have seen. I think Coming up With a Specific definition of Asexuality may be in the long run detrimental, as It apears to be a vastly encompassing state.

For instance, Some of you completely Lack a sex drive, in what appears to be a hormonal Level. You never get Sexual urges for anything.

Some of you seem to Possess Sex Drives, but to never associate those feelings with other people. You may get the mecanics of sexual urges, but you never desire to act on them to have sex. This may vent itself in many ways, but it seems mastutbation is a common one.

And a level up from that is about where I consider myself, Posessing of a Sex Drive But conciously REFUSING to associate those feelings with others unless they make it clear they are willing. Since I actualy want sex, I cannot call myself Asexual, but since I refuse to let my sex drive interfere with my personal interactions, I term myself Platonic.

So again, It's a gradient. Asexuality makes no sense to your average sexual person because they are always responding to their sex drives. The extreme Asexual has no sex drive. Many of us are in the middle somewhere.

Hello All.

I must say that I have been fortunate to view some of the members' written and other works and I've developed a hypothosis. Most everyone in the clubs seem to be very creative and artistically talented in some way. Perhaps all the energy that would be devoted to sex is channeled in to (usually very good) artistic expression? Wonder if all asexuals are this creative? Maybe not chasing sex is a contributer to this. Just a thought.

I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a Russain tale called "The Madien Tsar"? It seems interesting but I can't find a copy anywhere. It basically expands upon drk's theory of "masculine people" and "feminine people" from what I understand. It is a kind of a fairy tale that redefines masculine and feminine. Just think it would be interesting.

About the sex drive question I had, Monte has a great theory that explains it perfectly. It answers any questions I can come up with about sex drive and it is a theory that unites sexuals and asexuals by telling how sex drive relates to both. I also think it is a great way to explain asexuality to sexuals where they can actually understand it. Unfortunately, I haven't pestered enough to make him post it yet :-(...

As for pimp's post, I totally agree. Being asexual is just not being sexually attracted to others. Trying to make subgroups of asexuals based on different sex drives would be moot and would futher divide a small (yet growing) community. I think we should disect asexualism only to learn more about it and ourselves, not to make a bunch of subgroups.

ONJ: Glad to see you posting. Sorry to hear about the illness in the fam...hope it all works out.

DRK: Hope you haven't been eaten alive! Just a concerned citizen of your club, hehe.

Well I suppose that is it for now.

--GirlTech

Okay, here's the idea I've come up with that girltech was talking about. Bascially I compare asexuality (and other sexualities) to a stereo system.

Sexuality = Stereo

Sex drive = Volume (note: this stereo has no volume control)

Orientation = The radio station that's playing (hetero, homo, bi, and whatever else you can think of, there is also no control for this).

Now here's where asexuality comes in. Each stereo is set at a certain volume, but if your volume is all the way down, you can't hear it. If you can't hear it, how do you know what's playing? You don't. And so through that, asexuality is born.

Technically everyone has a sex drive, but in a basic sense it's possible to not have one. The stereo is on, but you can't hear what's playing, so there's no point in listening. For some the volume is just high enough for them to have a little interest, such as masturbation, but nowhere near high enough for them to want to have actual sex with someone. There is still no interest in intercourse, so they still fall under the term "asexual."

And that's my half-baked theory.

I still think that there's more than that, that you can lose the attraction aspect and still have the sex drive. To extend your metaphore, you can have the volume at a low-but-audible level, but have the radio tuned to static. Then you won't bother concentrating on it because its not a particularely interesting thing to listen to.

Sorry my postings been slowing down, I've been insanely busy meeting hundreds of random people and making friends with them. (All the energy that sexuals devote to forming romantic relationships we direct into forming platonic friendships, right? So we should, on the whole, be better at it than they are.) I hear the creativity thing, though people (in my experience) are so creative anyway about personally relevant stuff that its hard to tell.

Must go to bed now. I'll be able to write more when I have my own room.

-BRC

Wow. Ok, I've *finally* read through all of the wonderful member posts that appeared while I was on vacation. Whew.

Ok, on the topic of "queerness". I consider myself queer, at least on some level. I don't go around telling people this, because I understand the way my statement will be interpreted. I tend to stay away from my campus LGBT office, mostly because (from what I've gathered), it's a homosexual meat market. They just go to find other gay people so they can get dates. I don't have a problem with gay people (in fact, I'm nearly heterophobic), but I'm not interested in getting a date.

On the symbol: I really like the idea of the circle, but I like the curved V thing, too. Could you explain what that is again? I can't seem to find the original post (Ok, I'm lazy, and I've just read dozens of posts :) ) and I've forgotten what the curved V means.

The blue rose is beautiful, but I can see it being sexual. Roses are romantic, i.e. sexual.

Speaking of which (and I know this issue was addressed in some form) what exactly is romance? I think I've had "romantic" relationships that were completely non-sexual. I guess I've always thought of them as "intense friendships", but I've noticed that "normal" people don't seem to understand my friendships, since they're non-sexual. In fact, nearly all of my "intense friendships" have been with people in sexual relationships.

This is sort of what I'm getting at:

I only have one "intense friendship" at any given time. Right now I'm in-between them.

We'll tell each other everything, and be basically inseparable. If one of us wants to make plans, we'll always allow for the other to come along. We'll know each others favorite songs, books, foods. We'll buy each other presents.

We'll disagree on some things, but generally have similar interests, goals, etc.

Is this romance?

On sex drive:

I've never really had a sex drive. I don't even like physical contact. Anything more "intimate" than hugging just turns my stomach.

I don't know why that is, I think it's hormonal.I have other evidence of hormonal problems, I'm actually under the care of an endocrinologist. Who knows, after treatment, I may be a raging heterosexual. Or even a raging lesbian. Just kidding, I doubt it. Don't worry, though. Even if I change I'll still be an "ally" and keep the club going! :)

bye for now.

Oh, Girltech,

I think it was you said something about asexual people being more artistic. I remember reading an interview with Morrissey who said something about how he felt that being asexual helped his music career. He said that he had sexual energy but instead of putting it into "adult encounters" he put it into a musical form. Makes sense to me!

Actually the way I interpret it is that the volume represents the level of sex drive. No volume is the setting for ppl like me...no sex drive, or atleast one that I can audibley detect. Some of you have slightly higher, almost audible "volumes" of sex drive and you seem to express that in the form of masturbation. Sexual people will naturally have a loud and clear volume and those very sexually active will be like that annoying neighbor whose songs you can audibly hear all the way in your own home.

Of course with all things it is open to interpritation, and one can bend it to suit their needs. That's just my take on it and how the theory helps me personally discover more about my asexuality.

--GT OUT

I feel that asexuals are left with an abundant about of uncategorized energy that, in most people, would be focused on sex. That engergy is instead transferred into other outlets, which include be more thoughtful and more artistic.

BTW, welcome back, drk! :)

The etymology [to skew the meaning a bit] of the curved V is pretty simple: Its basis is in the tall, slender U symbol that represents UNION in mathematical notation. The left side represents masculinity with its focus on angular form, and the right side represents feminine nature. Two stereotypes brought together with the union symbol to represent the asexual's "neither this nor that nor all" philosophy.

It needs a better name than "That Curved V Thing" though. :)

For Fun and Profit, as well as an imagined obligation to BRC, tonight I will be attending the Queer organization meeting here on campus. I intend to broach the subject of Asexuality and see what kind of response I get. I'll keep you posted if anything interesting Occurs.

I too had noticed this overlap within the board here. As I noted a few posts back, it is something I had postulated about myself, for years. It seems that all of the energy that would have been spent chasing the opposite (or same) sex down, was diverted towards the arts and knowledge.

So I even tried to link the two and say that my sex drive was my knowledge drive. That is just a cute way of looking at it though, and a way to explain myself to sexual people. I doubt it has any validity on a chemical basis. On a psychological basis though, I think it has a lot of credibility.

As far as making one creative or artistic, I don't think I would feel comfortable declaring that. I know this kind of dips into the topics of intelligence and the philosophy of mechanics. I would feel safe stating it this way:

We have so much more spare time in our lives that it is silly. Most of us never get involved with a person on a deep level, and if we do, it is brief. As a result, many of us are "loners" because we either do not identify with the rest of society, or because we have been hurt by it. Coupled with the fact that we don't spend much time thinking about relationships at all -- we have TONS of spare time compared to the average citizen on planet earth.

Naturally, this spare time is going to get converted into something, unless you are extremely lazy. Whether or not the sex drive actually -becomes- something else is an interesting notion, but it might just have more to do with increased spare time, and a feeling of needing to do something with that spare time.

I reassert my hypothesis:

"My mind has detected the fact that I am the end of a genetic chain. Thus, it seeks to exert itself evolutionarily in a materialistic sense through the vehicles of art and thought, just as viciously as those who regularly find themselves in the arms of another human."

Sparkle: I've heard so much abotu you !! Good to finally run into you. I hear you on the queer community, its not like that at Wesleyan, but there is definitely alot of stuff that goes on that doesn't fit in with asexuality. Also there are some issues with compatability with a group that is set ot to fight for and celebrate their right to be sexual, asexuality can have an odd place (but, I think, still a good one.) There's a run-on sentence or you.

On romance: Check out my post, <a href=http://messages.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/havenforthehumanamoeba/bbs?action=m&tid=havenforthehumanamoeba&sid=1600015594&mid=101 target=new>http://messages.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/havenforthehumanamoeba/bbs?action=m&tid=ha venforthehumanamoeba&sid=1600015594&mid=101</a>

I think it might interest you. I consider a romantic relationship a platonic or nonsexual relationship accelerated and made "active" by sexual attraction. Platonic and "passive" relationships can be just as deep and just as intense as sexual ones. I, personally, think that there's alot of stuff in romantic intimate relationships that is there simply because of sexuality. As asexuals we're freed up alot as to how we can be intimate with other people, and I think that we shouldn't limit oursleves to thinking in a sexual/romantic centered way.

Intimacy is not about physical touch, it is not abot saying that you love someone, or even thinking that you love someone. Intimacy is about knowing someone and trusting someone enough that you flow with them from the most superficial to the most hidden parts of your personality without noticing the difference.

Also, on symbols. I know that no one else likes it, and that you're tired to me tooting my own horn, but I'm curious what you think of the AVEN triangle:

<a href=http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/asexuality.htm target=new>http://djay.web.wesleyan.edu/Theory/asexuality.htm</a>

-BRC

Raging Asexual

Really cool PP, I'm curious what the response will be. Just be careful how you approach them. Make it clear that you're as much eager to learn about GLBTQ stuff as you are to teach them about asexuality stuff. They're probably rightfully used to understanding all things queer (and most things sexually-related) about 20 times better than straight people (especially in Kansas), so if you go in there and do anything that could be interpreted as telling them what to think about something they'll pat you on the head and say "that's nice, but here's what's really going on." You can put it out there, but you haven't earned the authority in that community to make them focus on it, so don't expect to be able to. That being said, I'm still really interested how it will go.

-BRC