Haven for the Human Amoeba

you have the physical body parts and the mind to create.  You are sexual.  Its how you create sex in the mind allows the knob to turn.

All humans are sexual.

I beg to differ! How are you defining "sexual" and how do you know that "all humans" are sexual? Are you saying I'm not human, or that I'm really sexual and don't know it?!

Us asexuals don't turn the volume knob as high as most do.

I don't appear to have such a knob.

J8

Hi all. I'm a biologist who has studied many organisms and have found that sexual desire is really controlled by hormones.

You're talking about strength of desire, right? Not its direction or its basic existence?

I'm not a biologist, just a counselor who's taken some physiological psych courses along the way, but what I recall learning is:

Hormones--specifically testosterone--affect the strength of libido. Giving people extra testosterone will generally strengthen their sex drive (assuming they have one in the first place).

Hormones do not affect the direction of attraction. Early attempts to "cure" homosexuality by giving testosterone injections to gay men did not make them less gay, only more aroused. Same thing with fetishistic cross-dressers: Testosterone only increased their urge to cross-dress.

Testosterone is the "libido hormone" in both men and women.

While higher testosterone levels are associated with higher libido in both men and women, it cannot be concluded that this means men have higher libidos than women. Male brains are preconditioned by a testosterone "wash" during fetal development. It could be that adult male and female brains have different sensitivities to testosterone, so that the male brain is more acclimated to it and it takes less testosterone to affect the female brain.

That's about hormones. I've also read that abnormalities in certain brain areas, especially the temporal lobes, may be associated with an absence of libido even when there's plenty of testosterone circulating in the body.

That is consistent with my experience: I'm agonadal (no testes or ovaries), but have normal pituitary and adrenal hormones, meaning I produce a very small amount of testosterone in my adrenal glands. As a teenager I was given testosterone injections. I was told that one of the effects would be that I would develop a sex drive. But that never happened. I developed muscles, facial hair, a deeper voice, pretty extreme acne for a while when I was getting injected every week, and some intensification of the senses I already had (I think it was during the time I was on testosterone that I really noticed the difference between tasting and smelling), but I did not develop any new senses or drives that I hadn't had in the first place. Several years later I was found to have EEG abnormalities mostly in the left temporal lobe. So the "wiring" explanation definitely accounts for my experience better than the "hormone" explanation. At different times in my adult life I've been on no hormones, on testosterone, on estrogen, and on an estrogen-testosterone combination, and remained asexual regardless of what was going on with my hormones.

Now, if you want to look at where that asexual brain wiring comes from, prenatal hormones could be a factor. But hormone levels in adulthood? I think there has to be a sex drive there in the first place, in order for hormones to make it stronger or weaker.

J8

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

A study published by the New Scientist magazine in October, 2004 estimated that 1% of the human population is asexual, and confirmed the existence of asexuality in both humans and other animals.

Here's a paper chock full of stats.

http://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol23/18/23-18.pdf

Thanks! It's going to take me a bit of time to read and process this. Already I'm having some mental arguments with the authors about their assumptions. ;-)

J8

I believe it was determined over at AVEN.

I see. Did AVEN determine what people with no sex DRIVE are supposed to call ourselves, if people with sex drives are considered asexual?

J8

I have no idea but they have lots of info http://www.asexuality.org if you want to go look:)

Heather

I believe it was determined over at AVEN.

I see. Did AVEN determine what people with no sex DRIVE are supposed to call ourselves, if people with sex drives are considered asexual?

J8

Yahoo! Groups Links

This, following, is what Trix says at the AVEN site at http://www.asexuality.org/home/node/40 . What she says is that what's right (as an explanation) for one person may not be for another. Each of us finds our own way of understanding our own experience. Furthermore, I'm quite certain the experience of women at menopause is in part at least, to do with the freedom of having the children gone for the first time since early marriage, generally:

Our entire language around relationship matters is dominated by terminology and styles of speaking that accurately reflect the experience of people (males in particular) who are strongly driven by sexual attraction. In addition, sex has been historically associated with virility and power and strength and dominance and all sorts of desirable qualities that leaders in a tribe will possess. And they are the ones who have set the standards for all of us, who have described their experience for all of us, who we have been programmed to emulate and look up to. However, not everyone's reality and internal makeup is that of a specimen who is driven to rise to the top of the clan and mate with many individuals. Enough people in the world do experience sexual attraction that most of society seems to be able to at least relate to that, and view sexual partnership as the be-all and end-all of personal happiness and fulfillment. But then you see people who are radically unlike that "ideal", and they are questioning if their experience of themselves and their lack of wanting to mate, is legitimate or is it pathological. Good grief people! Of course it is legitimate. It is just the way you are. Your world has been interpreted for you through the eyes of somebody else. It's time to acknowledge that, and take back the right to be yourself. Discover for yourself what you actually feel. Invent your own language to accurately reflect your own experience, and know your own needs and desires. Own what you feel. There are so many ways to like people and be connected and intimate and loving with them that have nothing to do with sex. We only think they should, because we have been programmed to believe it. (Trix)

On 10 Oct 2009, 00:07 +00:00, Louise White said:

Hi all. I'm a biologist who has studied many organisms and have found that sexual desire is really controlled by hormones.

You're talking about strength of desire, right? Not its direction or its basic existence?

I'm not a biologist, just a counselor who's taken some physiological psych courses along the way, but what I recall learning is:

Hormones--specifically testosterone--affect the strength of libido. Giving people extra testosterone will generally strengthen their sex drive (assuming they have one in the first place).

Hormones do not affect the direction of attraction. Early attempts to "cure" homosexuality by giving testosterone injections to gay men did not make them less gay, only more aroused. Same thing with fetishistic cross-dressers: Testosterone only increased their urge to cross-dress.

Testosterone is the "libido hormone" in both men and women.

While higher testosterone levels are associated with higher libido in both men and women, it cannot be concluded that this means men have higher libidos than women. Male brains are preconditioned by a testosterone "wash" during fetal development. It could be that adult male and female brains have different sensitivities to testosterone, so that the male brain is more acclimated to it and it takes less testosterone to affect the female brain.

That's about hormones. I've also read that abnormalities in certain brain areas, especially the temporal lobes, may be associated with an absence of libido even when there's plenty of testosterone circulating in the body.

That is consistent with my experience: I'm agonadal (no testes or ovaries), but have normal pituitary and adrenal hormones, meaning I produce a very small amount of testosterone in my adrenal glands. As a teenager I was given testosterone injections. I was told that one of the effects would be that I would develop a sex drive. But that never happened. I developed muscles, facial hair, a deeper voice, pretty extreme acne for a while when I was getting injected every week, and some intensification of the senses I already had (I think it was during the time I was on testosterone that I really noticed the difference between tasting and smelling), but I did not develop any new senses or drives that I hadn't had in the first place. Several years later I was found to have EEG abnormalities mostly in the left temporal lobe. So the "wiring" explanation definitely accounts for my experience better than the "hormone" explanation. At different times in my adult life I've been on no hormones, on testosterone, on estrogen, and on an estrogen-testosterone combination, and remained asexual regardless of what was going on with my hormones.

Now, if you want to look at where that asexual brain wiring comes from, prenatal hormones could be a factor. But hormone levels in adulthood? I think there has to be a sex drive there in the first place, in order for hormones to make it stronger or weaker.

J8

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

What Trix appears to be saying here is that being asexual means you're asexual, and endlessly questioning why you are instead of accepting that it's okay to be that way is unnecessary. A statement I wholeheartedly agree with, which is why I don't see why discussing which hormones cause what is relevant at all to asexuality.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

This, following, is what Trix says at the AVEN site at http://www.asexuality.org/home/node/40 . What she says is that what's right (as an explanation) for one person may not be for another. Each of us finds our own way of understanding our own experience. Furthermore, I'm quite certain the experience of women at menopause is in part at least, to do with the freedom of having the children gone for the first time since early marriage, generally:

Our entire language around relationship matters is dominated by terminology and styles of speaking that accurately reflect the experience of people (males in particular) who are strongly driven by sexual attraction. In addition, sex has been historically associated with virility and power and strength and dominance and all sorts of desirable qualities that leaders in a tribe will possess. And they are the ones who have set the standards for all of us, who have described their experience for all of us, who we have been programmed to emulate and look up to. However, not everyone's reality and internal makeup is that of a specimen who is driven to rise to the top of the clan and mate with many individuals. Enough people in the world do experience sexual attraction that most of society seems to be able to at least relate to that, and view sexual partnership as the be-all and end-all of personal happiness and fulfillment. But then you see people who are radically unlike that "ideal", and they are questioning if their experience of themselves and their lack of wanting to mate, is legitimate or is it pathological. Good grief people! Of course it is legitimate. It is just the way you are. Your world has been interpreted for you through the eyes of somebody else. It's time to acknowledge that, and take back the right to be yourself. Discover for yourself what you actually feel. Invent your own language to accurately reflect your own experience, and know your own needs and desires. Own what you feel. There are so many ways to like people and be connected and intimate and loving with them that have nothing to do with sex. We only think they should, because we have been programmed to believe it. (Trix)

On 10 Oct 2009, 00:07 +00:00, Louise White said:

Hi all. I'm a biologist who has studied many organisms and have found that sexual desire is really controlled by hormones.

You're talking about strength of desire, right? Not its direction or its basic existence?

I'm not a biologist, just a counselor who's taken some physiological psych courses along the way, but what I recall learning is:

Hormones--specifically testosterone--affect the strength of libido. Giving people extra testosterone will generally strengthen their sex drive (assuming they have one in the first place).

Hormones do not affect the direction of attraction. Early attempts to "cure" homosexuality by giving testosterone injections to gay men did not make them less gay, only more aroused. Same thing with fetishistic cross-dressers: Testosterone only increased their urge to cross-dress.

Testosterone is the "libido hormone" in both men and women.

While higher testosterone levels are associated with higher libido in both men and women, it cannot be concluded that this means men have higher libidos than women. Male brains are preconditioned by a testosterone "wash" during fetal development. It could be that adult male and female brains have different sensitivities to testosterone, so that the male brain is more acclimated to it and it takes less testosterone to affect the female brain.

That's about hormones. I've also read that abnormalities in certain brain areas, especially the temporal lobes, may be associated with an absence of libido even when there's plenty of testosterone circulating in the body.

That is consistent with my experience: I'm agonadal (no testes or ovaries), but have normal pituitary and adrenal hormones, meaning I produce a very small amount of testosterone in my adrenal glands. As a teenager I was given testosterone injections. I was told that one of the effects would be that I would develop a sex drive. But that never happened. I developed muscles, facial hair, a deeper voice, pretty extreme acne for a while when I was getting injected every week, and some intensification of the senses I already had (I think it was during the time I was on testosterone that I really noticed the difference between tasting and smelling), but I did not develop any new senses or drives that I hadn't had in the first place. Several years later I was found to have EEG abnormalities mostly in the left temporal lobe. So the "wiring" explanation definitely accounts for my experience better than the "hormone" explanation. At different times in my adult life I've been on no hormones, on testosterone, on estrogen, and on an estrogen-testosterone combination, and remained asexual regardless of what was going on with my hormones.

Now, if you want to look at where that asexual brain wiring comes from, prenatal hormones could be a factor. But hormone levels in adulthood? I think there has to be a sex drive there in the first place, in order for hormones to make it stronger or weaker.

J8

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

I don't either. I have never experienced sexual attraction and never will. Saying all humans are sexual is the same as saying all humans are heterosexual.

I make the distinction between sexual attraction and sex drive because some people appear to use the word to mean "I don't feel like having sex" while still considering other people sexually attractive, which to me is a sex drive issue. Some people have felt like having sex...but not with anything in particular...and have never felt attracted to anything.(I'm not one of them, for the record. I don't experience either.)

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

All humans are sexual.

I beg to differ! How are you defining "sexual" and how do you know that "all humans" are sexual? Are you saying I'm not human, or that I'm really sexual and don't know it?!

Us asexuals don't turn the volume knob as high as most do.

I don't appear to have such a knob.

J8

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent.  there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause.  First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire.  so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior.  Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals.  There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent. there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause. First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire. so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior. Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals. There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

The problem is that all those explanations completely ignore the fact that for some people it is simply innate to who they are. For someone like me, who is asexual simply because it is hard-wired into me, none of the explanations you give fit at all, and in fact interfere with me being accepted for who I am, because doctors and psychologists presume that there is something wrong with me and that I need to fix one of the factors you talked about.

I am not asexual because of my hormone imbalance, nor did I grow up in a sexual repressive environment, nor did I experience any trauma related to sex.

I am asexual for the same reason my roommate is bisexual and for the same reason that I have Asperger's syndrome: because it's who I am. While genetics may play a role in that, but if so it is irrelevant, because I am not defined by my genes.

Stephanie

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

 I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

----- Original Message -----

From

Louise White

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:52 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Just curious...

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent. there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause. First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire. so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior. Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals. There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

---

From

Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Sun, October 17, 2010 11:04:09 AM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Just curious...

On 10 Oct 2009, 01:22 +00:00, Louise White said:

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

The innateness that you mention is the biological part. It's built in. It's not culture, not society. It is you. It is your 'essence'.

I'm sure some people are, as I said in my previous post. If that's how you know who you are, then that's what counts.

It's the same with gay people - there are two views on that - one that it's innate, that it's in the genes, the other that it is cause by society. There is no proof either way.

It is the neverending nature/culture debate.

The problem is that all those explanations completely ignore the fact that for some people it is simply innate to who they are. For someone like me, who is asexual simply because it is hard-wired into me, none of the explanations you give fit at all, and in fact interfere with me being accepted for who I am, because doctors and psychologists presume that there is something wrong with me and that I need to fix one of the factors you talked about.

I am not asexual because of my hormone imbalance, nor did I grow up in a sexual repressive environment, nor did I experience any trauma related to sex.

I am asexual for the same reason my roommate is bisexual and for the same reason that I have Asperger's syndrome: because it's who I am. While genetics may play a role in that, but if so it is irrelevant, because I am not defined by my genes.

Stephanie

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk



I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent. there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause. First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire. so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior. Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals. There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

Well said Stephanie.  Indeed.

The problem is that all those explanations completely ignore the fact that for some people it is simply innate to who they are. For someone like me, who is asexual simply because it is hard-wired into me, none of the explanations you give fit at all, and in fact interfere with me being accepted for who I am, because doctors and psychologists presume that there is something wrong with me and that I need to fix one of the factors you talked about.

I am not asexual because of my hormone imbalance, nor did I grow up in a sexual repressive environment, nor did I experience any trauma related to sex.

I am asexual for the same reason my roommate is bisexual and for the same reason that I have Asperger's syndrome: because it's who I am. While genetics may play a role in that, but if so it is irrelevant, because I am not defined by my genes.

Stephanie

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

 I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

----- Original Message -----

From

Louise White

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:52 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Just curious...

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent.  there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause.  First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire.  so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior.  Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals.  There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

---

From

Jim Sinclair <jisincla@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Sun, October 17, 2010 11:04:09 AM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Just curious...

On 10 Oct 2009, 01:22 +00:00, Louise White said:

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just  shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex.  If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.

Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for.  They don't have a higher purpose.  There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill.  I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it.  It is boring.

 The innateness that you mention is the biological part. It's built in. It's not culture, not society. It is you. It is your 'essence'.

I'm sure some people are, as I said in my previous post. If that's how you know who you are, then that's what counts.

It's the same with gay people - there are two views on that - one that it's innate, that it's in the genes, the other that it is cause by society. There is no proof either way.

It is the neverending nature/culture debate.

The problem is that all those explanations completely ignore the fact that for some people it is simply innate to who they are. For someone like me, who is asexual simply because it is hard-wired into me, none of the explanations you give fit at all, and in fact interfere with me being accepted for who I am, because doctors and psychologists presume that there is something wrong with me and that I need to fix one of the factors you talked about.

I am not asexual because of my hormone imbalance, nor did I grow up in a sexual repressive environment, nor did I experience any trauma related to sex.

I am asexual for the same reason my roommate is bisexual and for the same reason that I have Asperger's syndrome: because it's who I am. While genetics may play a role in that, but if so it is irrelevant, because I am not defined by my genes.

Stephanie

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

 I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent.  there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause.  First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire.  so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior.  Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals.  There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

Yes, exactly! It's sex that makes the world go round (and money). And by 'sex' what we are led to believe is that that means sexual intercourse. One's sexuality can be a lot of other things too, though if we're going with the idea that asexuality is about not being sexually attracted to anyone, that sort of narrows it down quite a bit.

And if asexuality is thought to be about not having a sex drive, then count out sexual eroticism done alone.

One can still appreciate a nice body though, can't one, for its aesthetic appeal, like one can enjoy flowers, or nice cars.

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex. If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.

Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for. They don't have a higher purpose. There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill. I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it. It is boring.

 The innateness that you mention is the biological part. It's built in. It's not culture, not society. It is you. It is your 'essence'.

I'm sure some people are, as I said in my previous post. If that's how you know who you are, then that's what counts.

It's the same with gay people - there are two views on that - one that it's innate, that it's in the genes, the other that it is cause by society. There is no proof either way.

It is the neverending nature/culture debate.

The problem is that all those explanations completely ignore the fact that for some people it is simply innate to who they are. For someone like me, who is asexual simply because it is hard-wired into me, none of the explanations you give fit at all, and in fact interfere with me being accepted for who I am, because doctors and psychologists presume that there is something wrong with me and that I need to fix one of the factors you talked about.

I am not asexual because of my hormone imbalance, nor did I grow up in a sexual repressive environment, nor did I experience any trauma related to sex.

I am asexual for the same reason my roommate is bisexual and for the same reason that I have Asperger's syndrome: because it's who I am. While genetics may play a role in that, but if so it is irrelevant, because I am not defined by my genes.

Stephanie

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

 I agree with the thought that there is a cultural, or social, aspect to this, as I said in my previous post, and Louise says here. It doesn't work the same for every person so there will be differences, but that's to be expected.

If we say there is a biological, hormonal, psychological, and social dimension to asexuality, and for some people one part will take priority over another part, then we can see how people come up with the explanation that makes sense to them. Even AVEN dopesn't have all the answers.

Sue

hmm, well I can tell you as a woman who has gone through the absence of oaries and estrogen that my sex drive is now non-existent. there is also a misunderstanding out there about why women's sex drive might go up during menopause. First, during menopause, estrogen decreases gradually so there is still a sex drive for a while and many women have said that the fact they know they can no longer get pregnant makes them feel less inhibited about having sex, thus the increase in desire. so it's not really biological.

Also think about why you spay your dog or cat and how that affects their behavior. Hormones have a huge effect on bahavior in all animals. There are certainly many reasons why seomeone is asexual but you can't deny that hormones have a big part in it.

Louise

A woman's sex drive is driven by estrogen. That's why when women go through menopause and their ovaries stop producing estrogen, their sex drive decreases. A lot of women will go on hormone replacement therapy with estrogen so they can get their drive back. otherwise, they will have no interest in sex at all.

This is the opposite of what I've heard. The biology professor who chaired my thesis committee was doing research where he discovered women's sex drives are likely to *increase* during menopause, because without the estrogen, the testosterone from the adrenal glands has a more potent effect. Of course if a woman is experiencing hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances, and other menopausal symptoms, she might not feel much like having sex. And vaginal dryness can make sex uncomfortable. Estrogen replacement therapy can help with those symptoms. I just googled "female libido testosterone menopause" and found a bunch of articles that seem to bear this out. Testosterone fuels libido for both sexes, assuming, again, that libido is there to be fueled. Otherwise, I guess adding testosterone to a body with an asexual brain would be like pumping gasoline into a car that has no fuel tank. The engine won't start no matter how much fuel you pour around.

J8

Yes, exactly! Just the other day, someone expected me to explain away why I want to "die alone & a virgin"! >:(

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just  shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex.  If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.   Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for.  They don't have a higher purpose.  There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill.  I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it.  It is boring.

That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

Yes, exactly! Just the other day, someone expected me to explain away why I want to "die alone & a virgin"! >:(

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex. If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.  Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for. They don't have a higher purpose. There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill. I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it. It is boring.

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field.  So many therapist buy that most everything us humans do have to do with sex.  Whatever!  Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

Yes, exactly! Just the other day, someone expected me to explain away why I want to "die alone & a virgin"! >:(

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just  shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex.  If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.   Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for.  They don't have a higher purpose.  There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill.  I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it.  It is boring.

I told her that I wasn't arguing and if she was going to question it I'd find another therapist. She changed her tune quickly. We'll see how long that lasts.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field. So many therapist buy that most everything us humans do have to do with sex. Whatever! Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

Yes, exactly! Just the other day, someone expected me to explain away why I want to "die alone & a virgin"! >:(

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex. If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.  Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for. They don't have a higher purpose. There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill. I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it. It is boring.

Yeah, for crying out loud! What if we do not WANT the "right one"?????

That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

---

From

troi_tribble <freewaydog@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Tue, October 19, 2010 12:40:26 PM

Subject

[Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Just curious...

Yes, exactly! Just the other day, someone expected me to explain away why I want to "die alone & a virgin"! >:(

Rene Bataglia said:

The fact that we have to defend "why" we don't have an interest in sex, just shows how truly obsessed the human race is with sex. If you don't have an interest in it there must be something "wrong" and we have to figure out what that is.

Humans are obsessed with sex because they are shallow and little else to live for. They don't have a higher purpose. There whole existence is tied to them bumping uglies for 5 minutes for a 3 second thrill. I am just tired of hearing about it and talking about it. It is boring.

I think a lot of MH so-called "professionals" are really pervs! I had a social worker who insisted right in front of my brother that it's not asexuality, but that I am "afraid of sex because my father touched me inappropriately" when we kept trying to tell her NO SUCH thing happened! She did not seem to want to believe that! Or maybe she was trying to tease me & make me upset the same way that my peers who called me a "lesbian" did!

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field.  So many therapist buy that most everything us humans do have to do with sex.  Whatever!  Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

---

From

Stephanie Silberstein <stephanie_m_silberstein@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Tue, October 19, 2010 12:21:16 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Just curious...

  That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time. Â

Yeah, good for you! It's not the "right man" you should have but the "right therapist"! I wish there was a support group near me that could help me w/ this.

I told her that I wasn't arguing and if she was going to question it I'd find another therapist. She changed her tune quickly. We'll see how long that lasts.

I know you cannot live on hope alone, but without hope life is not worth living. And you... and you... and you... gotta give 'em hope. - Harvey Milk

---

From

carolyn moon <Carcar@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Tue, October 19, 2010 1:25:39 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Just curious...

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field. So many therapist buy that most everything us humans do have to do with sex. Whatever! Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

I concur. They all think all psychological issues and personality disorders have to do with some kind of sexual deviancy either done to you or from you. I know a PhD who likes to photograph porn. Always looking for a model to pose for him. I knew of a Psychology teacher in college who liked to sleep with his students. Trust me if the statistic is correct about how screwed up the majority of so-called therapists (if I recall over 80% of them are screwed and trying to find answers to their own short-comings) its best to shop around for one who takes healing seriously and not leave ya broke and/or more screwed up than before you entered into their office.

I think a lot of MH so-called "professionals" are really pervs! I had a social worker who insisted right in front of my brother that it's not asexuality, but that I am "afraid of sex because my father touched me inappropriately" when we kept trying to tell her NO SUCH thing happened! She did not seem to want to believe that! Or maybe she was trying to tease me & make me upset the same way that my peers who called me a "lesbian" did!

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field. So many therapist buy that

most everything us humans do have to do with sex. Whatever! Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

---

From

Stephanie Silberstein <stephanie_m_silberstein@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Tue, October 19, 2010 12:21:16 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Just curious...

 That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront

my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I

find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to

explain and defend who I am all the time. Â

Yes, I agree also.  Not only that, we are a society where you cannot talk to your friends about problems.  Friends are there only for the good times.  If there was more of a sense of community and people could talk to friends the need for so called "therapy" would be dramatically reduced.

What is a therapist anyway???  An expensive friend!!!!!!

I concur.  They all think all psychological issues and personality disorders have to do with some kind of sexual deviancy either done to you or from you.  I know a PhD who likes to photograph porn.  Always looking for a model to pose for him.  I knew of a Psychology teacher in college who liked to sleep with his students.  Trust me if the statistic is correct about how screwed up the majority of so-called therapists (if I recall over 80% of them are screwed and trying to find answers to their own short-comings)  its best to shop around for one who takes healing seriously and not leave ya broke and/or more screwed up than before you entered into their office.

I think a lot of MH so-called "professionals" are really pervs! I had a social worker who insisted right in front of my brother that it's not asexuality, but that I am "afraid of sex because my father touched me inappropriately" when we kept trying to tell her NO SUCH thing happened! She did not seem to want to believe that! Or maybe she was trying to tease me & make me upset the same way that my peers who called me a "lesbian" did!

Sadly, you won't find much support in the MH field.  So many therapist buy that most everything us humans do have to do with sex.  Whatever!  Adopt the philosophy 'Explain nothing'

---

From

Stephanie Silberstein <stephanie_m_silberstein@...>

To

havenforthehumanamoeba@yahoogroups.com

Sent

Tue, October 19, 2010 12:21:16 PM

Subject

Re: [Haven for the Human Amoeba] Re: Just curious...

  That's why I object strongly to the search for causes as well. I had to confront my therapist at my last session because she asked me yet again to wait until I find the right man before deciding I'm asexual. I get really tired of having to explain and defend who I am all the time. Â